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What is a sin that doesn't lead to death?

Serving Zion

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?
 
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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one...

JLB

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is sin, that leads to death and will not be forgiven.


Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:31-32




JLB
 

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?
amen - i have been wondering what that is about too

reading 1JN it appears that lawlessness aka breaking God's commands is involved - so perhaps a sin unto death is about directly proudly saying no to God vs simply failing to overcome temptaion and sinning?
 

Hopeful

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?
Any sin that is not "turned from" permanently, is a sin unto death.
 

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James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own(W) evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;(X) and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

James appears to be saying that sin gives birth to death once that sin is matured.

I believe this goes back to Adam and Eve. Eve sinned, but her sin was caused by being deceived. Adam, on the other hand willfully disobeyed which explains why death came through Adam, not Eve.

Scripture talks a lot about not hardening our heart. This is to say we sin with a seared conscience. Our sin is blatant and without regard for Gods ways and we do what we know is wrong. This, I believe leads to death because we work for evil, and our wages are death.
 

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Any sin that is not "turned from" permanently, is a sin unto death.

That really does not work, because that idea bases salvation on something you do, (self saving) vs what God did as Christ on the Cross to save you, which is the "gift of Salvation".


So, to answer the OP's Question, about the sin unto death.

There is a sin you can keep sinning until you die, or "unto death", and you'll end up in Hell after you die.
Its this one. John 3:36
Ive seen God take the John 3:36 Atheist to the grave for being very vocal about their Christ Rejection, in Public, or in Books.
God is not mocked. He's serious about that Cross and to disrespect the Blood of Jesus, will get you killed.

But, there is something else..
Paul says that if you continue to live in sin, while born again.......and you wont stop, and you wont turn from it, and God has given you Hebrews 12:6 to turn you around ., and yet you just keep on with the lifestyle of sinning......Paul says you will "DIE."
So, in that case, the "sin unto death", is to live in sin as a believer = that causes you to die.

This can be God taking you home early.
This happens to people who play "christianity".
IT can be that you end up with a disease that is related to your sinful lifestyle, that killed you.
 

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Hey.. we know by reading John that true believers do not commit sin as in always walking in sin freely. Were not going to get a clear answer on this because John didn't tell us. I think this falls into why some people (believers) die early. So all unrighteousness is sin yet there is sin that does not lead to death. In my searching I would have to agree ALL sin does not lead to death. The sweet holy Spirit at work in Christ when He was here.. to speak against that blah blah blah.. Christ told us about that.. that right there is hard many do not fully know. So if your weak in the faith you tend to listen to that lie and "I blasphemed the holy Spirit".. :) no.

His grace.. to repent of sin that we know the wages of sin is death. Does not all sin lead to death? I think the heart can be hardened so one might not be truly repenting. I think still saved yet.. God judges and gone home. We all have sin we know if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. Maybe this falls also into "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Just me thinking here.. but great question. Look into Greek about "A" sin. I find would be "sin unto death" lol doesnt make it better. I am not disagreeing with anyone here... yeah I don't know.
 

Edward

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?

Let's remember that the Lord looks at the motives of the heart. It is possible to sin and do a technical wrong but in the bigger commission of helping someone the sin may pale when viewed from the intent.

Like I told my wife before...if I walk in and she has done wrong and stirred something up, yes we'll need to talk later but for right now, first things first and she gets defended to my life and I'll help her bury the bodies (so to speak)

I think that's what it's all about. Some sins, Jesus will make a judgement call on and he can let them slide on that particular circumstance. After all, His Love covers a Multitude of sins...
 

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I think that's what it's all about. Some sins, Jesus will make a judgement call on and he can let them slide on that particular circumstance. After all, His Love covers a Multitude of sins...

What if Jesus has already paid for all sin on the Cross, already, 2000 yrs ago? John 3:16,17

and what if this verses are True..

2nd Corinthians 5:9 : "that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them, And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation". as this....""For Christ did not send me to water baptize, but to preach the gospel""""

And what if Romans 4:8 is true?
 
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Remember this is not a debate forum so please make sure to address your comments to the OP's questions and avoid addressing each other. We don't want to leave the OP behind with long drawn out discussions about our differences of opinion. If you feel the need to have those kinds of discussions, please start a new thread in the appropriate forums and invite others to join in. Thanks.
 

Serving Zion

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I think the heart can be hardened so one might not be truly repenting
I had just quoted Proverbs 19:9 in another thread, and as I was thinking on it, it occurred to me that it is speaking exactly about a thing that leads to death. So I had to come and report that observation into the thread.

It has been difficult for people to reconcile 1 John 3:9↗️ and 1 John 5:18↗️ with 1 John 1:8-9↗️ and I think that Proverbs 19:9 has the answer to that. See 1 John 3:9 doesn't say that every sin will be forgiven, but it puts a condition on that forgiveness: that we must confess that sin. But there is a type of person that Jesus spoke about in John 3:20 who doesn't come to the light.

So there's the difference between a sinner who does a sin in such a way that they are able to confess that sin, and God is faithful to forgive them and cleanse them of that unrighteousness. But there is a type of sinner who refuses to go near the light - instead of confessing their sin, they clothe theirself with deceit. Proverbs 19:9 says that the end of a person who goes that way, is to perish. So that seems to say quite clearly that they are sinning a sin that leads to death. And it's interesting to look at the reason why a person refuses to go near the light when they have sinned: It is because their deeds are φαῦλα (fow-los): "evil, worthless, base". They aren't simply doing a thing that they know shouldn't be done, but the thing they are doing is something that they are afraid to have exposed: they don't want to be seen as doing that which is evil, worthless and base.

Another thing I saw is that the word φαῦλα (fow-los) is different from the word ἁμαρτίαι (ham-ar-tiai), which means "sin" (to "miss the mark"). Therefore the baseless deeds that cause a person to hide from the light are not in themselves the sin that they need to confess, but the sin that they need to confess is the thing that caused them to do those worthless deeds. If they are able to confess that sin then they can be forgiven and cleansed of their unrighteousness, but if they don't confess that sin then obviously it will lead them to do more evil deeds and to lie about that too.

One last thing, because I was led to ask which word is being used to describe those who are condemned as said in 2 Thessalonians 2:10↗️ because they "do not love the truth that would have been salvation for them, but instead took delight in every deceit for the unrighteousness for which they are perishing" - that's exactly what we're discussing here, isn't it? That word "unrighteousness" that is what they take delight in every deceit for, is ἀδικίᾳ (ad-ee-kee'-ah), and it's the very same word we see in 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 5:17.

we know by reading John that true believers do not commit sin as in always walking in sin freely.
The operative word there is not that we simply "commit" sin (because there is a type of person who commits sin in such a way that they will confess that sin and they will be forgiven and cleansed of it). What you are referring to is 1 John 3:9 which says that "anyone who has been born of God does not practice sin", and that word specifically is ποιέω (poy-eh'-o): "(a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause." - so it's a thing that takes a conscious effort, or a deliberated attempt - it means to say that anyone who is born of God does not make any attempts to do sin, whereas we are seeing that there is a type who is perishing and that they have become adept in the art of their sin.
because John didn't tell us.
It's interesting to consider why that is. It reminds me of what Jesus said in John 16:25 and Matthew 11:25. But why wouldn't John just tell the truth plain and outright? Why does it need to be concealed with riddles? Wouldn't it have saved souls to have made the truth so plain? I am not afraid to ask these sorts of questions (Matthew 7:7).
 
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Bethel

 
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. See 1 John 3:9 doesn't say that every sin will be forgiven,
The verse you quoted says that the seed which is in all the born again, defines why they are made righteous.

To understand this verse requires a person to understand that they are not a body. They are a spirit that lives in a body.
This Spirit, has become joined to Christ, when it becomes "in Christ", 'Made righteous" by being born again into the Spirit of God by the Holy Spirit.
See that?
That is the SPIRIT of a person , not the body, and not the mind, being REDEEMED, (born again).
This is to become SPIRITUALLY "ONE with GOD, In Christ".

This is why you have this verse.......>"As Christ IS......so are the born again. (spiritually) In THIS World".

And notice this verse that is NOT symbolic. The born again are "seated IN heavenly places, IN Christ".

And notice this verse that is NOT symbolic. The born again ARE. "translated FROM Darkness TO Light".

And notice this verse that is NOT symbolic..... "Jesus is the LIGHT of the world" and the born again are "Children OF THE>.....= LIGHT".

So, when a person understand what it means to be BORN AGAIN, then they can read 1 John 3:9, and discern it correctly, but not until.
 

tdidymas

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1 John 5:16-17 says this:

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

It complicates the doctrine of Romans 6:23, which says "For the wages of sin is death". It doesn't seem to say that the wages of some sin is death, but that sin itself earns death.

So I am asking to find out what the difference is between the type of sin that leads to death and the type of sin that doesn't lead to death.

Why are we told to pray for the one type of sinning brother but not the other?
Firstly, the apostles write to the churches in such a way that they are assuming that not everyone in the churches are born again. Jesus made many statements to that effect, such as "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven," in addition to the wheat and tares parable, etc. Specifically 1 John has discernment of who is born again and who isn't, as one of its themes. And since he says that whoever hates "his brother" walks in darkness, that is proof that he is calling a "brother" anyone who says he is a Christian, whether that person is actually born again or not.

The apostle Paul is explicit on what sins lead to death in places like 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Gal. 5:19-21. He says of people who practice things like that "will not inherit the kingdom of God," so it becomes obvious that those are sins that lead to death, and those kinds of things (those lists are not exhaustive). And in 1 John, it says the one who hates his brother is a murderer, so hate is also included. Since love fulfills the law, loving our neighbor is the best way to avoid sins leading to death.

Gal. 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. All these things are an exhibition of hate or conceit.

And notice it says "practicing," so it means a lifestyle or characterization of a person's life. IOW, it's not a matter of doing something once and then repenting, such as exhibiting a hateful attitude once, and then forgiving that person, and then tolerating their quirks. But what John is saying is that if a person has a hateful attitude and doesn't repent (perhaps because he feels he is justified in some way), then that person hasn't repented, hasn't believed the gospel, isn't obeying Christ, and isn't born of God. Therefore, we should not be praying that they be forgiven. We want God to chastise them, so that they might learn to fear God and repent of their hateful attitude. And to generalize it, the same should be said for those who practice any of those sins leading to death, because they "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" if they continue in it.

So it begs the question, what is sin that does not lead to death? The obvious one is something done that doesn't glorify God, and yet does not cause someone else to stumble. But we also know that sin is deceitful, and is the reason why we really don't want to practice any sin, because it blinds us to the underlying behaviors that cause others to stumble in some way. If a brother can see his brother commit a sin that doesn't lead to death, then the fact that the sin is seen is a potential cause of stumbling. And James says "we all stumble in many ways."

Incidentally, when John wrote "the one born of God does not sin," he is talking about going headlong down a path or lifestyle that is characterized by sins leading to death, and the Christian doesn't do that. He is not talking about becoming sinlessly perfect (a common misunderstanding). Born again Christians live a lifestyle of repentance and obedience to Christ, and this is what all the apostles taught. Jesus said "by their fruit you shall know them."
 
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Bethel

 
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The apostle Paul is explicit on what sins lead to death in places like 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Gal. 5:19-21. He says of people who practice things like that "will not inherit the kingdom of God,

You wrote concerning quite a few topics in your post, so, i just wanted to address this one, as it could be that there is some confusion about this "shall not inherit"..

So, first of all, every single person is a practicing sinner who "shall not inherit the KOG, right until they are saved, and begin to exist in it. as "translated from darkness.....>TO LIGHT".

And in this we understand who does not "inherit", and who did already.

See, the KOG, (Kingdom of God) is a Spiritual Kingdom.. The born again exits IN IT, SPIRITUALLY, and it exists in them, Spiritually.
When we read that the born again are "in Christ".....this is based on being born again into the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit.
So, when we read about those who wont "inherit" this Spiritual Kingdom, because of.... (insert here : all the sins you were committing before God saved you with Christ's Blood), we see that this verse is not talking in the general sense, but its only talking to people who are this........... John 3:36

And a person says....."well, what about if you sin after you are saved".

1.) Thats everyone.

Final Solution ??? = The same blood of Jesus that God applied to you when He forgave all your sin, is not a temporary solution for your sin.
Its a "one time eternal sacrifice, for them ALL".
Notice that God died on the Cross, 2000+ years ago? And notice that this salvation that God accomplished on the Cross.....(Jesus said..>'It is finished',........saved you 2000 years later.
Notice that?
That is the blood of Jesus, CONTINUING to redeem and forgive, and it is doing it today and tomorrow, as well.
Our Salvation exists exactly like that......always continuing based on God's Blood that was shed 2000 yrs ago.

How do you know?
Because these 2 verses explain that God does not charge the born again with their sin, AFTER they are redeemed from them by God's Blood. (Christ on the Cross). 2000 yrs ago.
Salvation is not temporary.
Eternal life is not temporary.
Being born again, is not temporary.

2nd Corinthians 5:17-19

Romans 4:8
 

tdidymas

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You wrote concerning quite a few topics in your post, so, i just wanted to address this one, as it could be that there is some confusion about this "shall not inherit"..

So, first of all, every single person is a practicing sinner who "shall not inherit the KOG, right until they are saved, and begin to exist in it. as "translated from darkness.....>TO LIGHT".

And in this we understand who does not "inherit", and who did already.

See, the KOG, (Kingdom of God) is a Spiritual Kingdom.. The born again exits IN IT, SPIRITUALLY, and it exists in them, Spiritually.
When we read that the born again are "in Christ".....this is based on being born again into the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit.
So, when we read about those who wont "inherit" this Spiritual Kingdom, because of.... (insert here : all the sins you were committing before God saved you with Christ's Blood), we see that this verse is not talking in the general sense, but its only talking to people who are this........... John 3:36

And a person says....."well, what about if you sin after you are saved".

1.) Thats everyone.

Final Solution ??? = The same blood of Jesus that God applied to you when He forgave all your sin, is not a temporary solution for your sin.
Its a "one time eternal sacrifice, for them ALL".
Notice that God died on the Cross, 2000+ years ago? And notice that this salvation that God accomplished on the Cross.....(Jesus said..>'It is finished',........saved you 2000 years later.
Notice that?
That is the blood of Jesus, CONTINUING to redeem and forgive, and it is doing it today and tomorrow, as well.
Our Salvation exists exactly like that......always continuing based on God's Blood that was shed 2000 yrs ago.

How do you know?
Because these 2 verses explain that God does not charge the born again with their sin, AFTER they are redeemed from them by God's Blood. (Christ on the Cross). 2000 yrs ago.
Salvation is not temporary.
Eternal life is not temporary.
Being born again, is not temporary.

2nd Corinthians 5:17-19

Romans 4:8
I don't get how you are addressing what I said at all. It appears to me you are assuming something about what I wrote that isn't true. Can you please get clear about what I wrote, and then make specific objections to it after you say what you think I meant?
 

Bethel

 
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I don't get how you are addressing what I said at all. It appears to me you are assuming something about what I wrote that isn't true. Can you please get clear about what I wrote, and then make specific objections to it after you say what you think I meant?

Sure.

Your wrote this......

"""""""He says of people who practice things like that "will not inherit the kingdom of God,""""""

= That verse is not talking about the born again.
And where the confusion can come in, and does, is when you see this world "PRACTICE", and a person thinks...."oh that means, a habitual lifestyle".
And it actually means "THOSE"......which is specific to a person who is not born again.

Many who are religious, and some are even saved, wrongly apply this verse to the born again to try to prove that if you are born again and sin, or practice sinning, then you wont "inherit the KOG".
And this shows that the person who teaches that, does not understand that the Born again are already a part of the eternal Inheritance, because they have ALREADY been born again into the Spirit of God, by the Spirit of God.
This is why all the born again are defined as this....>"ONE with GOD, In Christ".
Thats Spiritual union, with God, based on being BORN AGAIN.......not water baptized, but BORN AGAIN.

So, for the born again...., "sin" has been dealt with, when Jesus "became sin" on the Cross, so that the person who is born again, became "the righteousness of God, in Christ". 'Made righteous", based on receiving "the GIFT of Righteousness".

This means that those who are this verse.......John 3:36, the CHRiST REJECTORS, are those who "will not inherit", as they are not born again.
 

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What is a sin that doesn't lead to death is a forgiven sin that we truly repent of. Repentance is the difference between the sin that leads to death and the sin that does not lead to death.


1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

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Specifically 1 John has discernment of who is born again and who isn't, as one of its themes. And since he says that whoever hates "his brother" walks in darkness, that is proof that he is calling a "brother" anyone who says he is a Christian, whether that person is actually born again or not.
This is very helpful, thanks for writing that!
 
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