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What is legalism?

humble soul

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So if your favourite book is the Book of Leviticus, look out !! we can call you a legalist!!
 

Bethel

 
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Legalism, regarding a Christian, is to "fall from Grace".

Its simply to lose faith that Christ is the only reason you go to heaven by falling victim to "here is what i do to go to heaven".
See that? that is SELF Righteousness. or, Trying to make SELF right with God, by SELF.

So, its replacing faith in Christ, with faith as : "what i do" to stay saved.

Trying to stay saved, is where the falling from Grace, is occurring, as when you are trying to stay saved, you are not trusting in Christ to get you into heaven, you are trusting in you.
This believer will have a list of " do this and can't do that", as their SAVIOR, as they are trusting in their list instead of Trusting in Christ to keep them saved.

Legalism is....>"im trusting in what i have to DO, to stay saved".

Real Faith in Christ is...."im trusting in what CHRIST DID on the CROSS to both save me and keep me saved".

See, the issue with a legalist, isn't that they don't believe that God saved them, (The Cross), its that they don't believe that the same blood of Jesus that saved them, keeps them saved..

A Legalist will agree that God started their salvation, but they will never agree that this same keeps them saved.

Legalism, is trying to keep yourself saved, vs real faith in Christ to keep you saved.
 

Seasoned by Grace

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To me, "legalism" is a form of "rule-keeping, from a mental or physical list of to do's, and not to do's.
It's how we start out in our faith as babes in Christ, because that's all most of us have to start with, but over time, some of us learn to love God, and His ways, and our heart begins getting involved in doing what God wants from us, and those things on that list become a big part of our heart, as we learn to love and glorify our Lord in those things, and we begin to live from our heart with love, instead of living from a mental list that doesn't reach our heart.

Kind of like the rich young man who came to Jesus with a list of all the things he had accomplished, and wanted to know if there was anything else he should do to get to heaven - Mark 10:17-22.
His salvation was based on a list.

Seasoned by Grace
 

Bethel

 
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To me, "legalism" is a form of "rule-keeping, from a mental or physical list of to do's, and not to do's.

Its personal rule keeping to try to stay saved.

"Falling from Grace" is ....to be born again, but to have a faith issue develop, whereby the person has come to believe that they have to ( as you posted.)...."rule keep"......and that is self effort.
So, once self effort, or as i teach it......"Do-ism" has become their Faith......as , what i do, what i have to do, what i have to keep from doing,...once this becomes FAITH, then the person and God's Grace are at odds.
God says...."Jesus Saves"
The Legalist says...>"no, listen, i do it....and here is my list......1.) commandments, 2.) law, 3.) self effort, 4.) trying to be holy, 5.) trying to abide.... Notice all the SELF DOING that has left God's Grace behind is how a person "falls from Grace".

Salvation is not what you do, its what you receive as "the GIFT of Salvation".

How do i "stay saved"... is the "mental problem" you are describing that the legalist has...........Its trying to "stay saved", as when a believer is trying to stay saved, they have stopped trusting in Christ ALONE, for salvation.

To be "fallen from Grace" is to BELIEVE that the blood of Jesus, is not able to keep you saved, and instead the person's faith has become....."i do it"....>"i keep myself saved"......and they will have a list, and that list has replaced Christ's blood.
Their list they will explain to you carefully , as bible verses and self effort, > themselves up on the Cross trying to stay saved.

Salvation is not just the beginning of belief, its the entire blood atonement, its the reason that God has accepted us, which is proven by being born again.
Being born again, is PROOF you are saved., and yet, a believer can lose faith, and when they do, they will only talk about keeping themselves saved, and they will have a list they are keeping.

Here is how it sounds to fall from Grace... "Yes, i know that Jesus saved me.......but now i have to .....i have to, i have to.....do and do, and keep, and dont do, and here is my LIST of SELF DEEDS to try to STAY SAVED".

The will show it to you.. It will be bible verses and self effort.
No Cross and No Blood of Jesus......as they wont go so far as to say....>"its the blood of Jesus and my self effort that keeps me saved", as to say that, is to deny Jesus the Credit for Salvation.
And if they do say that, then they have just denied the Cross.

See it?

That's legalism as "fallen from Grace".
 

Seasoned by Grace

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I agree with you Bethel somewhat.
But let me take it a step further.
I am saved by what I do, through the power and strength of Jesus Christ, not on my own strength for I have no super-natural powers like Christ has.
But, I believe and read in scripture that, I do have free-will, some don't believe in free-will, and I can make choices to honor God, or I can rebel by my own choice - I am not God's robot !!

>Salvation is not what you do, its what you receive as "the GIFT of Salvation".<

This I disagree with.
Salvation to me is what we do, in and through Christ, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and it is about what we continually receive, not just once, to support where we are in our own stage and season of salvation.

In Gods love and mercy
Seasoned by Grace
 

Bethel

 
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I am saved by what I do,
Well.....not according to God.
According to God, He saved you with the blood of Jesus...

According to God, He Himself, as Christ on the Cross, said..>"it is finished".
And that is Salvation finished, 2000 yrs ago.
And THAT Salvation is a Gift given for the last 2000 yrs. Its "the gift of salvation", "the gift of Righteousness".
Its the Blood Atonement, its the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

When we are born again, we are '"made righteous", as its not by our "works , but according to God's mercy""
Being "made righteous" is not temporary, and God didnt cause this to happen to us because we were good enough.. to deserve it. He did it for us on the Cross, because we were going to hell,> UNGODLY.

If i said, "i am saved by what i do", then how am i agreeing with God that Jesus is the "only way" To Him? John 14:6.

A way to think about this verse...>"present your body as a living sacrifice".. is to see it like this..

Can you do that and not be born again?
Can you be a disciple of Jesus, and not be born again?
Yes you can.
Just ask Judas.

Here is another way to think about it..........If God does not accept our works before we are born again, to save us, then why would God need your works to keep you saved after He saved you??
How can it be, that what can't save us, before we are saved.......how can these same works keeps us saved after we are born again?
The blood of Jesus does not change our works, it changes our SPIRIT.
Its not our works that are born again, its our SPIRIT.
Its not our works that become "ONE with God, in Christ", its our SPRIIT.

Good works do not cause our SPIRIT to be born again, so, works are useless regarding salvation.
It take GOD on the Cross making us Righteous to get us into heaven.
Commandments, Law, good deeds, need ......not.......apply.

Everything that you can do for God, after you are born again, you can do, and not be born again.
All of it.

Commandment keeping.
Living for the Lord.
Church going.
Bible reading.
Posting on Christian forums.
Teaching Sunday School.
Translating Greek into English
Giving to the poor.
Praying..

We can do all that SELF EFFORT, and not be born again....so, if all that can't save us to begin with, then us trying to do it after we are born again, is the same MOOT Situation.
"faith.......without works"........."without". as this is the GRACE of God.
All our works have nothing to do with God on the Cross,

Salvation is all of God.
Discipleship is all of us, with God's help.
They are not the same.
Salvation is not discipleship.
Salvation is what God provides from the Cross, as a GIFT, and Discipleship is what we do, because we have the GIFT.
"the GIFT of Salvation".

And a person says......"so, are you saying that we are not supposed to present out bodies as a living sacrifice"...
No, im saying that we present our bodies and take up our cross, not to try to stay saved, but because we ARE Saved.

You've read this verse? "depart from me i never KNEW YOU"?

Those people were trying to be Christians.
They were doing the works., and God said..>"GET OUT" !!! "depart" !
And why?
Because God does not accept our works to save us. He only accepts His own blood and death given on the Cross, as the "gift of salvation" as the only reason He accepts us.
Salvation is JESUS., Himself..........not what we do. John 14:6
 
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Seasoned by Grace

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I am saved by what I do, through the power and strength of Jesus Christ, and not on my own strength, for I have no super-natural powers like Christ has.
Bethel my brother.
You took my quoted comment out of context, shortened it for whatever purpose, and then twisted what I said.
I am a MODERATOR here, and we don't do that on this forum brother.

Let's keep things apples to apples :thumbsup.

Enjoy your Sunday with the Lord my brother.
God bless you.
Seasoned by Grace
 

Bethel

 
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Bethel my brother.
You took my quoted comment out of context, shortened it for whatever purpose, and then twisted what I said.
I am a MODERATOR here, and we don't do that on this forum brother.

Let's keep things apples to apples :thumbsup.

Enjoy your Sunday with the Lord my brother.
God bless you.
Seasoned by Grace

And Shalom to you as well....

You told me that you disagree that Salvation is a "gift".

You then said that "salvation is what we DO, in Christ".
Here is the Quote..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bethel said....{>Salvation is not what you do, its what you receive as "the GIFT of Salvation".<}


Seasoned by Grace said.... """"""This I disagree with.
Salvation to me is what we DO, in and through Christ,"""""""

""""""=======================================================================


I said that Salvation is what God provided, as Christ on the Cross, that He offers as "the Gift of Salvation".

So, we can agree to disagree about the Gospel.

Have a fine and safe Sunday,


-Bethel
 
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