What is the fire? Matt 3:11

[donadams]

What is the Fire?

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The fire represents the Love of God!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Tongues represents the light of truth and the fire of divine love)

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[WIP]

You've lost me here. Can you explain how the verses you quoted define what fire baptism is? I have a different idea of what it might be but I have no direct answer.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

What is the Fire?

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The fire represents the Love of God!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Tongues represents the light of truth and the fire of divine love)

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Hello, donadams, Great post, wanted to share this view: https://endofthematter.com/2020/07/what-does-baptism-of-fire-mean-matthew-311/

Walter

 

[hawkman]

What is the Fire?

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The fire represents the Love of God!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Tongues represents the light of truth and the fire of divine love)

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

John was talking to the Pharisees and Sadducees in this chapter 13 of Matthew as we see in this verse .
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

So I do not see the fire as a representation of God's love at all but a fire of judgement upon the unrepentant . As we read the chaff is burned up by fire .

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

 

[WIP]

John was talking to the Pharisees and Sadducees in this chapter 13 of Matthew as we see in this verse .
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

So I do not see the fire as a representation of God's love at all but a fire of judgement upon the unrepentant . As we read the chaff is burned up by fire .

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

This is very close to what my thoughts were about baptism with fire. Additionally, my thought was that fire represents a cleansing so-to-speak. Repenting from our sins is not always an easy thing to do and we may resist. In that regard, cleansing by fire to me would also be similar to going through withdrawals from a drug addiction, ergo, our sin and pride.

 

[journeyman]

I believe the baptism of fire refers to persecution of believers in Jesus. As Peter says,

the fiery trial which is to try you...ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings
1Pet.4:12-13

Fire purifies. Following the love God showed through his Son, to people who treated him terribly, is a purifying process, because when believers are persecuted and respond kindly, we are immersed in the fire of our Saviors presence.

 

[hawkman]

Yes, WIP and journeyman fire as a means of purification is mentioned many times in the Bible .

Here in Isaiah1:25 the word fire is not used but we know fire is part of the process of the purge .

24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

Another OT example of fire refining in Malachi 3 . Prophecy of John The Baptist and Jesus .

Malachi 3​

1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

This passage is for Israel but also for all nations . Very powerful passage of scripture . Read the whole chapter .

Isaiah 43​

1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

I really should spend more time studying the Old Testament .

 

[journeyman]

Yes, WIP and journeyman fire as a means of purification is mentioned many times in the Bible .

Here in Isaiah1:25 the word fire is not used but we know fire is part of the process of the purge .

24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

Another OT example of fire refining in Malachi 3 . Prophecy of John The Baptist and Jesus .

Malachi 3​

1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

This passage is for Israel but also for all nations . Very powerful passage of scripture . Read the whole chapter .

Isaiah 43​

1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

I really should spend more time studying the Old Testament .

Yes hawkman. It's really interesting also how Isa.1:24 speaks of Gods' enemies, which Col.1:21 says we once were.
When the martyred saints ask when God will avenge them, he says,

until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Rev.6:10-11

It's like God is showing how more of his enemies have to come to faith, because they have to die for their faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

Fire in that verse means empowerment as we are empowered by the Holy Spirit when we are Baptized in the Baptism of Christ for receiving the Holy Spirit. It is the presence of God within us that gives us His power and authority.

 

[donadams]

You've lost me here. Can you explain how the verses you quoted define what fire baptism is? I have a different idea of what it might be but I have no direct answer.

The Christian sacrament of Baptism by water and the spirit is the initial means of grace and virtues of Jesus Christ
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Acts 2: 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Represents the fire of divine love and the spirit of truth
Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

What is the Fire?

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The fire represents the Love of God!

Oh? That isn't indicated in Acts 2 or in Matthew 3:11. Instead, the "fire" is associated directly with the presence of the Holy Spirit, resting upon those in whom he had come to dwell. The "fire" was an indicator of the presence of the Spirit that each of the disciples could see. They could observe the "fire" resting upon one another and know that they were all being truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, baptized by him into Jesus Christ, as had been promised. This was important because they were all going to be working together to establish the Early Church, holding special authority, and responsibility, and spiritual power over it, and so they needed to be totally confident in the spiritual second birth of one another (not a false brother, a traitor, as Judas had been). This is suggested by the fact that when the Spirit came upon other groups of people in Acts, baptizing them into Jesus Christ, there was no fire accompanying the event. Only with the first disciples of Jesus, the apostles over the Early Church, was fire present.

I wouldn't die defending what I've proposed here about the confidence-building effect of the Spirit-fire, but it does explain well, I think, the "tongues as of fire" appearing over the first born-again believers. I'm open to alternative ideas about the purpose of the "fire," however, if they are faithful to the account of Acts 2, make good sense of it, and comport well with the rest of Scripture.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Tongues represents the light of truth and the fire of divine love)

Don, you're just asserting, not justifying from the verses/passages themselves, what you think. You can't handle God's word this way and come to a proper understanding of it. There is no statement in Acts 2 supporting your view that "Tongues represent the light of truth and the fire of divine love." In fact, there is no such statement anywhere in the NT. Why, then, do you think you're justified in asserting that this is so? You're just stuffing into Scripture whatever you want it to say. It's not possible to understand what Scripture actually says when you're doing this.

Matthew 3:5-12 (NASB)
5 Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;
6 and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
10 "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
12 "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

It seems to me pretty unnatural to read this passage and conclude that the "fire" of verse 10 and 12 is the same "fire" mentioned in verse 11. The religious hypocrites of Jesus' day - the Pharisees and Sadducees - being "trees" bearing "bad fruit," or "chaff," would be thrown into the "unquenchable fire" of eternal hell when the Day of God's Judgment and Wrath arrived. But for those baptized by the One mightier than John the Baptist, by the Holy Spirit placed into Christ, there would be "fire" of a very different sort, not of judgment and wrath, but of testing, purification, refining and power, worked upon the "wheat" by the Holy Spirit. (John 16:8-13; Hebrews 12:5-11; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Ephesians 5:9; Romans 8:1-4; Philippians 2:13, etc.)

 

[donadams]

Oh? That isn't indicated in Acts 2 or in Matthew 3:11. Instead, the "fire" is associated directly with the presence of the Holy Spirit, resting upon those in whom he had come to dwell. The "fire" was an indicator of the presence of the Spirit that each of the disciples could see. They could observe the "fire" resting upon one another and know that they were all being truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit, baptized by him into Jesus Christ, as had been promised. This was important because they were all going to be working together to establish the Early Church, holding special authority, and responsibility, and spiritual power over it, and so they needed to be totally confident in the spiritual second birth of one another (not a false brother, a traitor, as Judas had been). This is suggested by the fact that when the Spirit came upon other groups of people in Acts, baptizing them into Jesus Christ, there was no fire accompanying the event. Only with the first disciples of Jesus, the apostles over the Early Church, was fire present.

I wouldn't die defending what I've proposed here about the confidence-building effect of the Spirit-fire, but it does explain well, I think, the "tongues as of fire" appearing over the first born-again believers. I'm open to alternative ideas about the purpose of the "fire," however, if they are faithful to the account of Acts 2, make good sense of it, and comport well with the rest of Scripture.



Don, you're just asserting, not justifying from the verses/passages themselves, what you think. You can't handle God's word this way and come to a proper understanding of it. There is no statement in Acts 2 supporting your view that "Tongues represent the light of truth and the fire of divine love." In fact, there is no such statement anywhere in the NT. Why, then, do you think you're justified in asserting that this is so? You're just stuffing into Scripture whatever you want it to say. It's not possible to understand what Scripture actually says when you're doing this.

Matthew 3:5-12 (NASB)
5 Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;
6 and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 "Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
10 "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
12 "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

It seems to me pretty unnatural to read this passage and conclude that the "fire" of verse 10 and 12 is the same "fire" mentioned in verse 11. The religious hypocrites of Jesus' day - the Pharisees and Sadducees - being "trees" bearing "bad fruit," or "chaff," would be thrown into the "unquenchable fire" of eternal hell when the Day of God's Judgment and Wrath arrived. But for those baptized by the One mightier than John the Baptist, by the Holy Spirit placed into Christ, there would be "fire" of a very different sort, not of judgment and wrath, but of testing, purification, refining and power, worked upon the "wheat" by the Holy Spirit. (John 16:8-13; Hebrews 12:5-11; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Ephesians 5:9; Romans 8:1-4; Philippians 2:13, etc.)

It don’t say truth either in acts 2 but He is the spirit of truth and the spirit of love
The burning (fire) bush in exodus the burning bush represents the Holy Spirit and the divine fire of love
Why can’t it be all the above? The presence of God, the glory of God, the truth of God and the fire of divine love. Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

The burning (fire) bush in exodus the burning bush represents the Holy Spirit and the divine fire of love

Says who? The Bible doesn't say this.

Why can’t it be all the above? The presence of God, the glory of God, the truth of God and the fire of divine love. Thanks

Because the Bible doesn't say so. We can't just force into it whatever we want to. It's God's word, not ours; it tells us what is so, we don't shape it to reflect what we want to be so.

 

[donadams]

Says who? The Bible doesn't say this.



Because the Bible doesn't say so. We can't just force into it whatever we want to. It's God's word, not ours; it tells us what is so, we don't shape it to reflect what we want to be so.

Traditional “ancient” prayer of the church to the Holy Spirit

Come, Holy Ghost​

V. Come, Holy Ghost fill the hearts of your faithful.
R. And kindle in them the fire of your love.

V. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created.
R. And you will renew the face of the earth.

Let us pray
O God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit,
did instruct the hearts of your faithful,
grant that by that same Holy Spirit,
we may be truly wise, and ever rejoice in your consolation,
Through Christ our Lord.
Amen.

Traditional “ancient” hymn to the Holy Spirit

Come Holy Ghost Creator blest
And make our hearts Your place of rest
Come with Your grace and heav'nly aid
And fill the hearts which You have made
To You, the Counselor we cry
To You, the gift of God Most High
The fount of life the fire of love
The soul's anointing from above
In You with graces sevenfold
We God's almighty hand behold
While You with tongues of fire proclaim
To all the world His holy name
Your light to ev'ry thought impart
And shed Your love in ev'ry heart
The weakness of our mortal state
With deathless might invigorate
Drive far away our wily foe
And Your abiding peace bestow
With You as our protecting guide
No evil can with us abide
Teach us to know the Father Son
And You from both as Three in One
That we Your name may ever bless
And in our lives the truth confess
Praise we the Father and Son
And Holy Spirit with them One
And may the Son on us bestow
The gifts that from the Spirit flow

 

[Tenchi]

Traditional “ancient” prayer of the church to the Holy Spirit

Come, Holy Ghost​

V. Come, Holy Ghost fill the hearts of your faithful.
R. And kindle in them the fire of your love.

V. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created.
R. And you will renew the face of the earth.

Let us pray
O God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit,
did instruct the hearts of your faithful,
grant that by that same Holy Spirit,
we may be truly wise, and ever rejoice in your consolation,
Through Christ our Lord.
Amen.

Traditional “ancient” hymn to the Holy Spirit

Come Holy Ghost Creator blest
And make our hearts Your place of rest
Come with Your grace and heav'nly aid
And fill the hearts which You have made
To You, the Counselor we cry
To You, the gift of God Most High
The fount of life the fire of love
The soul's anointing from above
In You with graces sevenfold
We God's almighty hand behold
While You with tongues of fire proclaim
To all the world His holy name
Your light to ev'ry thought impart
And shed Your love in ev'ry heart
The weakness of our mortal state
With deathless might invigorate
Drive far away our wily foe
And Your abiding peace bestow
With You as our protecting guide
No evil can with us abide
Teach us to know the Father Son
And You from both as Three in One
That we Your name may ever bless
And in our lives the truth confess
Praise we the Father and Son
And Holy Spirit with them One
And may the Son on us bestow
The gifts that from the Spirit flow

Yes, and? What does an "ancient hymn to the Holy Spirit" have to do with my questions?

 

[donadams]

Yes, and? What does an "ancient hymn to the Holy Spirit" have to do with my questions?

Says the fire is love of God

 

[Tenchi]

Says the fire is love of God

Yes. And so? Why should I care that an ancient prayer says this? God's word doesn't.

 

[donadams]

Yes. And so? Why should I care that an ancient prayer says this? God's word doesn't.

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Church / apostles are the means of transmission of the truths revealed by God in Christ. Matt 5:14 Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18 Matt 18:17 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 acts 1:8 acts 8:31 Lk 1:4

Jn 14:6 refers to Christ and not us, we are not and cannot be the only arbiter of truth, nor can we through private judgment (spiritual pride) give meaning and interpret scripture or decide doctrine, let humble ourselves and obey Christ and His church and be taught. Lk 1:4 Matt 11:29

The prophet speaks for God, to believe the prophet is to believe God, to reject the prophet is to reject God who sent Him. Isa 53:1 who hath believed our report.


To believe the apostles is to believe Christ who sent them to teach and sanctify all men, Matt 28:19 to reject the apostles is to reject Christ.
To accept the church and her teaching is to accept Christ, to reject the church is to reject Christ who established the church.

The person of an apostle is endowed with power and authority, not only their writings.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Thanks

 

[journeyman]

There's no reason to think heresy believed by religious leaders among the Jewish people, couldn't happen in NT churches.
The NT even shows how congregations become corrupt,

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1Tim.4:1

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Tim.4:3

 

[Tenchi]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

This doesn't answer my question at all.