Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

What I've found

My conclusion is stated in the first 2 paragraphs.

Throughout the Bible, there are comments made that are extremely helpful in putting a year to some of its events. By piecing together these comments, it is possible to make a self-consistent chronology. Many chronologies involve some complex, inconsistent way of counting these years, but that doesn't seem like something anyone would do if writing something like the book of Kings. I however, think that these answers should be much simpler. Some might find it weird that I, a mere teenager am questioning the work that many scholars devoted their lives to, but most, if not all major chronologies ignore one of the most important things to consider. But first, I will state my conclusion.

After going through all the necessary points, I found that the time from the call of Abraham to Jesus's crucifixion was exactly, to the year, 2000 years. The Bible does mention times when something like this happened. For example, the Exodus was on the exact day that it needed to (Exodus 12:40). Abraham's call also seems to show a change in focus. In the time between Abraham's call and Jesus's crucifixion, most of the focus is on Israel. Even when Israel was more evil than the other nations, the focus was still on Israel. If this time period was exactly 2000 years long, it clearly could not be a coincidence. The only possible explanation for this is if the 6000 years of sin that Psalm 90:4 seems to suggest are split into 3 equal sections of time. If this is true, then the Second Coming must happen 2000 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, or 2030. If the Great Tribulation lasts exactly 1335 days, then the start of it should be somewhere around August 7, 2026.

The first objection I'd expect to get is that "No one will know the day or the hour" or something like that. The verse that is normally quoted is Matthew 24:36, but there are three things wrong with using this verse against this claim. Firstly, it is just two verses after the one saying that the generation that they were in would not pass until "all these things are fulfilled", so this verse could be referring to the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. Secondly, it only says that no one knew the day or the hour, it say nothing of who will know in the future. Thirdly, I have not predicted a day or an hour, I have barely predicted a week. Matthew 24:36 doesn't say that no one will ever know the year. The only thing that is remotely similar to that is Luke 12:40 where it says "... the Son of Man will come when you don't expect it" which doesn't seem to what the coming of the Son of Man is.

Now, I just need to show that the call of Abraham was exactly 2000 years before Jesus's crucifixion. 3 time periods in this are very easy to determine. 1 Kings 6:1 says that the fourth year of Solomon was the 480th year since the Exodus, Exodus 12:40 says that when the Exodus happened, the "time of the Israelites" was 430 years to the very day, and 2 Kings 24:12 says that the first siege of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar happened in the in the 8th year of his reign, which started in the spring of 598 B.C. which was 627 years before Jesus's crucifixion (since there was no year 0). This leaves only two uncertain parts; the call of Abraham to the beginning of " the time of the Israelites" and Solomon to the first siege of Jerusalem.

To know the former, it is needed to know when "the time of the Israelites" started. Most people have it starting at the call of Abraham, but that is simply illogical. Abraham was not the father of the Israelite nation, Jacob was. The time of the Israelites started with Jacob's birth, not the call of Abraham. Now all that's needed is the amount of time from Abraham's call to Jacob's birth. This is easy. Genesis 12:4 says that Abraham was 75 when he was called, Genesis 21:5 says that he was 100 when Isaac was born, and Genesis 25:26 says that Isaac was 60 when Jacob was born, so the amount go time from the call of Abraham to Jacob's birth is something from 85 years to 87 years depending on the time of year when Abraham, and Isaac were born. This time period will be given more certainty in a bit.

Now, the section with the most uncertainty is the time from Solomon to the first siege. This section should be divided in two. I'll cover the beginning part first. This section is from Solomon to Hezekiah. This part isn't very hard. If you count the first partial year a king reigned as his first year, all of this section is straightforward, except for 5 sections. Firstly, in chronological order, Rehoboam's reign must be placed immediately after Solomon's with no overlap. Secondly, Abijam's reign must placed with one year of overlap with Rehoboam's reign (because of the partial year inclusion thing discussed earlier). Thirdly, sometime between the first 16 years of Jehoshaphat's reign there must be a 1 year gap where the first year of Jehoram is put in. Fourthly, Jehu must begin to reign with no overlap with Jehoram(not the same one)'s reign. Fifthly, Zechariah's reign must be placed in the last year of Jeroboam the second's reign, and Azariah's reign must be adjusted accordingly. All of this might seem arbitrary, but it will be needed later. For now, I'll move on.

Isaiah 37:30 says that the Israelites were to eat what grows of itself for 2 years. Earlier it is established that these years are Hezekiah's 14th and 15th years. Doing something like this was not some random thing, it was supposed to happen every 49 years. Leviticus 25 talks about this. It says that they were to rest the land every 7 years, and only eat from it that which grows of itself. Leviticus 25 also says that they were to count these sabbath years and the year after every seventh sabbatical year would be a year of jubilee. The year of jubilee was supposed to be like a sabbatical year, but even more special. During the year of jubilee, they were also to only eat of the land that which grows of itself. This means that starting with the seventh sabbatical year, there would be two years in a row where they would eat that which grows of itself. This means that in order for Isaiah 37 to make sense Hezekiah's 15th year must be a year of jubilee. Many chronologies consider this, but I have not seen one reconcile this, all chronologies I have seen have either abandoned the "jubilee calendar" in their reckoning, or they have not considered the book of Kings for their chronology. I think it is because they are all looking in the wrong spot.

It is commonly assumed that the "jubilee calendar" must have started at either the Exodus or the entering into Canaan, but if this is true, there is no possible way that Hezekiah's 15th year could possibly be a year of jubilee. If that wasn't enough, consider Leviticus 19:24. It says that the fruit produced by their trees in the fourth year after they entered into Canaan would be holy to the Lord. This would only make sense if it was a sabbatical year, but there is no possible way in either reckoning that that year could possibly be a sabbatical year. However, if the "jubilee calendar" started at the call of Abraham, and the call of Abraham was exactly 86 years before Jacob's birth, both of them line up perfectly. This means that there were exactly 1274 years between Abraham's call and Hezekiah's 15th year.

All that's left is finding out the amount of time from Hezekiah's 15th year to the first siege of Jerusalem. First, I will relate the first siege to the second siege. 2 Chronicles 36:10 says that Zedekiah did not begin to reign until the end of the year, and 2 Chronicles 36:11 says that Zedekiah reigned 11 years, so there were exactly 11 years from the first siege to the second siege. To get to the last part, I must explain a few things.

The Israelites were supposed to rest the land during the sabbath years, and God told them that if they consistently disobeyed him, they would by driven into an enemy land, and their land would rest its sabbaths (Leviticus 26:34). Ezekiel 4 says that Israel was bad for 390 years and also for 40 years. 2 Chronicles 36:21 says that the land rested for 70 years. All of this means that in the time of the kings, Israel was bad for 430 years split into 2 sections, and in that time 70 sabbaths passed by.

The jubilee calendar is already placed on this timeline, so this will be easy. The 390 years and the 40 years are mentioned separately so they must be separate times, and Saul's 40 years must be included somewhere so the 40 years must be the 40 years of Saul's reign. Since both Saul's reign and the jubilee calendar are on this timeline, it should be easy to tell that there were 7 sabbaths in these years. Now we just need the 390 years. It is clear that David's 40 years can not be included since David only messed up in the case of Bathsheba and Uriah (1 Kings 15:5). It should also be clear that Solomon's 4th year must be included in the 390 years since Solomon used slaves to build the temple (1 Kings 9:15). Thus the beginning of the year that the year that the second siege took place in was either 107, 108, 109, or 110 years after Hezekiah's 15th year. This can be further reduced since Jeremiah 34 says that, at the time of the second siege, a sabbatical year was about to happen. This reduces the options to just 110. If you count the sabbaths, in this arrangement it is exactly 70.

Thus, the year of the second siege was 110 years after Hezekiah's 15th year, so the first siege was 99 years after that year. The beginning of the year of the first siege was 598 B.C. so Hezekiah's 15th year must have started in 697 B.C. and since Hezekiah's 15th year was 1274 years after Abraham's call, Abraham's call must have happened in the spring of 1971 B.C. The amount of time from 1971 B.C. to A.D. 30 is exactly 2000 years (since there was no year 0). There were 2000 years from Abraham's call to Jesus's crucifixion, and it is likely that there will be 2000 years from Jesus's crucifixion to the Second Coming.
 
.
Hi Thisworksiguess, and welcome in Jesus' name. You've put a lot of work into something I scarcely understand, and hope you are rewarded to the satisfaction you seek. I reckon my faith is simple in that proving God's word was never a necessary thing to me to believe. My bountiful experience has been abundant, and yet I will admit into delving into a bit of time calculations to better understand the present scripture I studied, but more concerning the prophesies of Daniel. Other than that I have found too much supposition, and man's reasoning backing most of their conclusions.

With the seemingly detailed scope of your study I suppose you're familiar you're familiar with this following information, but I didn't see you mention it so I will paste it here.

Day Year Counting
Israel’s calendar was based on lunar instead of Solar to my understanding. Using the Hebrew calendar.
In prophesy we see such use of the Hebrew calendar used with the 70 weeks of Daniel.

In addition to using 360 days to the year, we also read in Ezekiel 4:6 . . . I have appointed thee each day for a year. This way the prophesy amounts to 490 years. The first 483 years of the prophesy stretched from 444 BC in Neh 2:6, to the time Jesus entered Jerusalem at 33 years of age riding an ass. Zech 9:9.

Wikipedia also has some insight into it,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar
Blessings in Christ Jesus. :wave2
 
Here is a Jewish Calendar
Kinda easy to use.

But there is a problem. It's off.
They know the inaccuracy exists...but they are unwilling to fix it. Basically it isn't much...just a day or two. But what it means is that the Sabbath day that everyone follows is wrong. And that is a major.
A Jewish Rabbi I am friends with knew...he is one of the few actual authorities of the Calendar. PHD and everything. He has written several books and research papers on the subject.

It's going to take someone who regards God over money. Benjamin N.(BB) ain't the guy who will do that.
 
One issue I have with finding the date is how some people descide to react to the date. Including quitting jobs, selling/ giving everything away, or otherwise let go of the life they have. It's sad but it has happened. On end times dates and end of the world dates. There was even a mass sucide event around the siting of a comet. (Hayley's comet I think.)

If your right about the dates it's very interesting, even if it's a range like within a year instead of pinning it on a day. But right or wrong, the date we're looking for is something dangerous to find, dangerous to consider. At least that's my conclusion.
 
Hi Thisworksiguess
As Not_Now.Soon has said, I also agree that it's not such a good idea to try to pin point a date.
I did not read your entire post, but I understand that a lot of work went into this.

The Thessalonians had also thought they knew when Jesus was returning. They had stopped going to work and doing their daily work and were waiting around for Jesus to come back, pretty much the attitude Not Now Soon is speaking about.

There's an old Italian saying regarding this: Mille, e non piu' mille.

It means that we'll get past the first 1,000 years okay, but we won't make it past the second thousand years.
We'll, we're up to 2016, so we're 16 years in.

Personally, I don't like to concentrate on the end times. What will be will be. For some persons, today will be the last day. So we should live as if it were.

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting your work. Look forward to hearing from you.

Wondering
 
Hi Thisworksiguess
As Not_Now.Soon has said, I also agree that it's not such a good idea to try to pin point a date.
I did not read your entire post, but I understand that a lot of work went into this.

The Thessalonians had also thought they knew when Jesus was returning. They had stopped going to work and doing their daily work and were waiting around for Jesus to come back, pretty much the attitude Not Now Soon is speaking about.

There's an old Italian saying regarding this: Mille, e non piu' mille.

It means that we'll get past the first 1,000 years okay, but we won't make it past the second thousand years.
We'll, we're up to 2016, so we're 16 years in.

Personally, I don't like to concentrate on the end times. What will be will be. For some persons, today will be the last day. So we should live as if it were.

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting your work. Look forward to hearing from you.

Wondering
The prophesy was given for a reason though.
There are truths in it that we need to understand and make use of.

I'm certainly not one for date setting. Even if the date is some 15 years into the future.
Every generation has a "feeling" that they are the last ones. From Columbus to the Millerite. All with well reasoned thoughts as to why.

But Revelation wasn't written with a date...it was written with a how and why.
Maybe we should look at those things.
 
Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.

The great tribulation is not about to be doing any flesh of man, any favors, including the flesh of "the elect."

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 
But right or wrong, the date we're looking for is something dangerous to find, dangerous to consider. At least that's my conclusion.

You are right in that sight. Nevertheless, we WATCH and PRAY.

The day of the LORD is the day(s) of Gods engagements with indwelling sin and evil present within ALL FLESH.

I don't expect it to be pleasant, at least for that part of any person, including 'any' believer. Romans 7:17-21. When we "work out our salvation" with "fear and trembling" the indwelling sin and evil present with us DOES fear and tremble. That working therein KNOWS what awaits.

Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

These agents are going to be aroused, inflamed and incensed to unbelievable anger and wrath, into that day of resistance from God in Christ.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
 
Picture:

Matthew 21:44
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Both sides of the above equations apply to us and to our flesh, in opposing fashions.

Same as here:

2 Samuel 22:28
And the afflicted people thou wilt save: but thine eyes are upon the haughty, that thou mayest bring them down.

God in Christ saves the broken hearted, the "afflicted."

Psalm 51:17
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalm 119:75
I know, O Lord, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.

All of us, even in our post salvation state, remain with issues of/in the flesh, which is the spirit of disobedience therein:

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Prior to that DAY the prophets have warned about and spoken, the GRINDING to powder is a SLOW GRIND.

But on that day it will be a MILLSTONE cast into the sea, never to be seen again, and it will be done with violence.

Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

I'm not seeing pretty pictures for these events myself. Nevertheless, let Gods Waters flood the earth to destroy them:

Isaiah 54:
8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.








 
As a teenager you won't remember the hype Y2K caused. It is really seductive to assign significance to a big round number. Unfortunately, I think you've made too many arbitrary decisions in order to support your theory.
 
Back
Top