grumix8
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what needs to happen for the end times to arrive ?
- Thread starter grumix8
- Start date
tim-from-pa
Member
Yes, what you have posted is an excellent start. I always stated 4 major things:
1. The increase in godlessness in the world ultimately to "as in the days of Noah" and for that matter a falling away in the church.
2. The increase of natural disasters, earthquakes, flooding, storms, droughts, insects, etc. This includes anomalies in space.
3. This is an important but detailed one: the geopolitical aligning of nations and groups to fulfill predictions in Daniel (Jesus said nation will rise against nation but does not elaborate the way Ezekiel, Daniel, the minor prophets, etc do). This is a very detailed and long study in and of itself. I can see the King of the South (and associated nations) forming. The King of the North has yet to come but those nations are starting. Gog and Magog are also forming. Israel and the plagues prophesied are starting to happen to us as well as Israel in the middle east. So for point #3 we have a little way to go yet, although after the COVID excuse, I saw things happening openly faster than I expected. I could sense these things for the past 30-40 years though so the planning stage was just awaiting something to execute them aka "new world order" by mundane classification. This is why you hear about microchips being implanted and other such stuff in preparation for Antichrist.
4. Lastly, this is a no-brainer for people who find all this a tad hard, but nothing will happen regarding end times until the Temple is rebuilt. However, knowing the other 3 will help us evaluate how close that is. But first Israel (the Jews of Judah) became a nation in 1948 as was in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah, then they captured Jerusalem in 1967 when I was only 8 years old. They had the temple mount but Israel gave the Temple mount back to the Waqf so that Islam has religious control but not political control. It was not time yet and that stands as of today yet.
May I add a corollary to point #1 is that I believe due to the godlessness that the Spirit of the Lord will allow at least one more revival. Someone said this was indicated (as a sign) when the reversal of Roe v Wade took place. That prediction was before the reversal (and leak) took place. They knew it was going to happen.
So, these are some things to watch for. Taking what I said at face value, you can see the chess game closing in fast, but a few moves yet for checkmate. At 63, I have doubts yet if I will see all this in my lifetime but I see the world being prepped rapidly now, perhaps no more than a few decades.
On a side note, I am working with the "times and seasons" as Paul would say. I think the end will come only on certain years by the biblical calendar. Here's the thing: I am not absolutely sure of the years such as Sabbatical and Jubilee years. This is my ongoing investigation but I will say one thing. Even if I knew that date, I would keep it under my hat. No blabbing it out so that as Isaac Newton would say, "to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail."
When the completion of the NWO comes to fruition and the beast out of the earth who receives full power from the beast out of the sea will claim his throne in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years causing all to take its mark. Then we will see the end of their destruction when the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
tim-from-pa
Member
Excellent summary.
Pretty much puts it in a nut shell and allows those to do their own research.
Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The False Christ is received as Christ by Christendom. But few will realize he is the "Man of Sin" False Christ who morphs into the Son of Destruction Antichrist, because they believe (wrongly) a third temple will be built.
The Third Temple: Does scripture anticipate a future Jewish Temple? | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News
The First Temple built by King Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar about 586 BC. The Second Temple replaced it only to be destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. The Third Temple has yet to be built. Many believe Bible prophecy implies a Third Temple will take its place in the End Time. The argument
endtimenews.net
Paul would never call a Christ rejecting temple built by Jews or antichrists, the "temple of God." The only Temple of God is the Church, and that is where the abomination of desolation is set up, stands up.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4 NKJ)
tim-from-pa
Member
I'm just curious at what exact point in time was the physical temple no longer the Temple of God?The False Christ is received as Christ by Christendom. But few will realize he is the "Man of Sin" False Christ who morphs into the Son of Destruction Antichrist, because they believe (wrongly) a third temple will be built.
The Third Temple: Does scripture anticipate a future Jewish Temple? | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News
The First Temple built by King Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar about 586 BC. The Second Temple replaced it only to be destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. The Third Temple has yet to be built. Many believe Bible prophecy implies a Third Temple will take its place in the End Time. The argumentendtimenews.net
Paul would never call a Christ rejecting temple built by Jews or antichrists, the "temple of God." The only Temple of God is the Church, and that is where the abomination of desolation is set up, stands up.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4 NKJ)
Consecrated Life
Member
Crisis is the key !
A perfect foreshadowing was the comprehensive worldwide population control perpetrated for Covid crisis .
Also take note of the food crisis foreshadowed now by the massive depletion of grain caused by the war in Ukraine.
The mother of all crisis will be a cataclysmic event that makes the " remaining " world population willing & compliant to follow a supreme ruler who will fix the aftermath crisis.
This cataclysmic event will give new birth to a renewed worldwide Hitler style blaming of the Jews which this world leader will use to demonstrate His supernatural Peacemaking ability , to the extent of even settling the Temple Mount dispute and bring peace to all parties.
His provided peace and restoration in the aftermath, for a short time.
The crisis setting the stage will be a worldwide nuclear strike.
There will be a complete destruction of the United States, along with it's ability to provide food .
A politically motivated dithering delay in retaliating on the United States part will result not in total destriction but a partial destruction of a good portion of Russia's & China's ability to feed themselves and others .
The climate result of the world wide unleashing of nukes contributing considerably to the inability to grow food.
Bottom line there will be a worldwide nuclear war setting the stage for the world's leader to restore peace .
Especially with Iran , N. Korea , China , Russia now on the march all becoming Allies building militarily .
As the United States depletes itself militarily, instead using the money in it's suicidal desire to provide utopian Welfare State .
tim-from-pa
Member
A bit vague about what you are saying. What we need to understand is the purpose of the Temple. It has to do with the dwelling place of God for fellowship with man (e.g Jesus stated that his Father's house was a house of prayer). What happened in the garden? How was our fellowship then affected? How did the Lord want to dwell among His people? How about the Holy Spirit? Those are the clues to the previous question I asked. We don't want to make a blanket statement like man never needed a temple when instructions by the Lord Himself were given to build it according to a pattern. There's a difference from what we feel ought to be v.s. what is actual. Otherwise, we run the risk of the biblical statement that mentioned every man did according to what was right in his eyes.
Stormcrow
Member
What needed to happen has already happened.
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14
Mark 16:15,20
15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.
Acts 1:8
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
By the time Paul wrote his letters to the Romans and Colossians, these prophecies were already fulfilled.
"THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." Romans 10:17-18
The end of the Old Testament Age came in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple at the hands of the Romans.
Apostolic eschatology understood "the end" to be the end of the apostate priesthood of Israel and temple worship. In other words, the end of the Law of Moses as outlined in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, among others.
If there is to be any "end" of this world as we know it, it is never mentioned in the Bible.
Dorothy Mae
Member
No one here can tell you when exactly the Spirit of God left the holy of holies. The day the curtain tore in two? Certainly by 70 AD when it burned down, He was gone.
tim-from-pa
Member
We know that there was no Ark of the Covenant in the Temple after the Babylonian Captivity, the same which was an earthly type of Throne of God, so people could claim that God left then. But then again, Jesus called the Temple the House of Prayer so He considered it His Father's house. Later on, after the Holy Spirit was given, the apostles still taught in the Temple complex and participated in certain rituals. As far as we are concerned, we are yet in the same age given that Pentecost was the last feast that represented this age. The feasts to come are Trumpets, Atonement, etc which have to do with the Second Coming. My point is that given we are in the same age as the apostles after the Spirit was given, and they had regard for the Temple of God, then the question has to be asked what changed? One clue is found in 2 Chronicles 7:15-16. The Lord said He would place His Name there forever, and hear prayers from that place. It's a promise. Maybe we should not so much think of how "Kosher" such a building would be there, but in the context of the promise. "But the Jews don't believe in Jesus!" cries one in protest. "It can't be the Lord's house!" Nevertheless, the Name is there and He hears the prayers. It's the place of His Throne at the Second Coming. So it was His in the past as it is in the future as Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. So nothing has really changed. Oh yes, if they are disobedient they would be exiled. If they are disobedient the Lord would allow the Temple to be smashed to pieces as a testimony. But that place is always the Lord's and He hears the prayers nonetheless.
Stormcrow
Member
"Thus also, before the Jews’ rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan], and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which light lasted for half an hour. (291) This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. (292) At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. (293) Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. (294) Now, those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it: who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty, was able to shut the gate again. (295) This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. (296) So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them." Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book 6, CH. 5, Sect. 3.
JOSEPHUS, FLAVIUS ; WHISTON, WILLIAM: The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1987
Signs in and around the Temple prior to its destruction in 70 AD, as reported by Josephus, are similar to Ezekiel's visions prior to the Temple's destruction prior to 586 BC at the hands of the Babylonians.
Ezekiel 10:18–19 (NKJV)
18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple and stood over the cherubim. 19 And the cherubim lifted their wings and mounted up from the earth in my sight. When they went out, the wheels were beside them; and they stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD’s house, and the glory of the God of Israel was above them.
There is only one temple now, in heaven, where Christ reigns as our High Priest and intercessor and one on earth: our bodies in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. There will never be another Temple built by human hands wherein God would reside and if one ever is built, it would neither be sanctioned nor sanctified by God's holy presence. The Law of Moses was violently, irrevocably, and eternally revoked with the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD.
Believers should disabuse themselves of this toxic doctrine of a third Jewish temple as soon as possible. We do not need a temple in Jerusalem to have God hear our prayers. We are it and He lives in us.
JOSEPHUS, FLAVIUS ; WHISTON, WILLIAM: The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1987
Signs in and around the Temple prior to its destruction in 70 AD, as reported by Josephus, are similar to Ezekiel's visions prior to the Temple's destruction prior to 586 BC at the hands of the Babylonians.
Ezekiel 10:18–19 (NKJV)
18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple and stood over the cherubim. 19 And the cherubim lifted their wings and mounted up from the earth in my sight. When they went out, the wheels were beside them; and they stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD’s house, and the glory of the God of Israel was above them.
There is only one temple now, in heaven, where Christ reigns as our High Priest and intercessor and one on earth: our bodies in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. There will never be another Temple built by human hands wherein God would reside and if one ever is built, it would neither be sanctioned nor sanctified by God's holy presence. The Law of Moses was violently, irrevocably, and eternally revoked with the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD.
Believers should disabuse themselves of this toxic doctrine of a third Jewish temple as soon as possible. We do not need a temple in Jerusalem to have God hear our prayers. We are it and He lives in us.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Since the angel appeared to Zacharias, it seems the Spirit returned. The Ark was hidden by Jeremiah before the city was taken, but that is a different discussion.
This is a lot to address. In the end, we are the dwelling place of God. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. He no longer dwells in buildings. As for God hearing prayers, we are not Muslims who believe if you turn towards a place on the planet then the Almighty hears prayers. God hears prayers under particular conditions and those are generally in the heart of the one praying, not the direction on the compass faced.
Stormcrow
Member
“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” DAN 12:4
And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. DAN 12:9
And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. REV 22:10
If the "time of the end" was "at hand" for John's readers, how can it be "at hand" for those of us living almost 2,000 years later?
John was told by the angel he would have to prophesy again:
And he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.” REV. 10:8-10
But Paul wrote to the Corinthians:
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 1COR 13:8-10
The perfect came when the new heavens and earth came down from heaven. The new heavens and earth is the church, the invisible, universal body of Christ indwelt by God's Holy Spirit here on earth wherever a believer lives. We call this the "New Covenant." And that could only happen when the first, "Old Covenant" was entirely fulfilled, including the section about vengeance. That vengeance came in 70 AD. Prophecy ceased at that point because every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and is guided into all truth by His presence.
“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” JER 31:33-34
Now, many are still expecting fulfillment of these things that have already been fulfilled. People look at the church and still see an imperfect group of people scrambling around in the dark looking for meaning in their lives. But "perfect" doesn't just mean flawless, which is how God views those washed in Christ's blood. Perfect also means complete, as in Christ's redemptive work for the world is complete. There is nothing else that needs to be done, no other fulfillment that needs to happen, and no prophecy left unfinished. Where the church today fails is in its failure to recognize this. Many keep praying earnestly and fervently for God to do what He has already done. We simply need to recognize the finished work of Christ and start living it.
The time of the end of the Old Covenant came in 70 AD. The world has been living in the New Covenant, perfect and complete, since then. If we're still looking for something better, then we need to start looking in the mirror, because that's where our responsibility to His kingdom starts.
And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. DAN 12:9
And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. REV 22:10
If the "time of the end" was "at hand" for John's readers, how can it be "at hand" for those of us living almost 2,000 years later?
John was told by the angel he would have to prophesy again:
And he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.” REV. 10:8-10
But Paul wrote to the Corinthians:
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 1COR 13:8-10
The perfect came when the new heavens and earth came down from heaven. The new heavens and earth is the church, the invisible, universal body of Christ indwelt by God's Holy Spirit here on earth wherever a believer lives. We call this the "New Covenant." And that could only happen when the first, "Old Covenant" was entirely fulfilled, including the section about vengeance. That vengeance came in 70 AD. Prophecy ceased at that point because every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and is guided into all truth by His presence.
“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” JER 31:33-34
Now, many are still expecting fulfillment of these things that have already been fulfilled. People look at the church and still see an imperfect group of people scrambling around in the dark looking for meaning in their lives. But "perfect" doesn't just mean flawless, which is how God views those washed in Christ's blood. Perfect also means complete, as in Christ's redemptive work for the world is complete. There is nothing else that needs to be done, no other fulfillment that needs to happen, and no prophecy left unfinished. Where the church today fails is in its failure to recognize this. Many keep praying earnestly and fervently for God to do what He has already done. We simply need to recognize the finished work of Christ and start living it.
The time of the end of the Old Covenant came in 70 AD. The world has been living in the New Covenant, perfect and complete, since then. If we're still looking for something better, then we need to start looking in the mirror, because that's where our responsibility to His kingdom starts.
tim-from-pa
Member
Well, slightly off the subject, I do believe that about Jeremiah hiding the ark. He seems to turn up in a lot of extra-biblical lore, too.
Blade
Member
Well I personally believe we are in the end times since Israel became a nation and a nation in one day as it was written foretold. There are somethings no one here knows for fact only a personal belief that is caught up (Rapture). Please lets not get silly we all know what Rapture means = caught up.
I hmm not struggle but really wonder about is how our God that can do anything could not destroy Sodom Gomorrah as long as Lot was still there. "Make haste and take refuge there, for I cannot do anything until you arrive there.". Here we are today knowing whats coming is not on a few cities but the whole world and all in it. Yet this time we don't have to go anywhere because what God could not do for Lot He will for us? Not written but a nice idea. Yet we read about Gods wrath and now none are protected from His wrath. Not written at all the Church is even there and protected. That came from man not God.
Another part is the authority God gives Satan (Lawless one) over the Saints. That will never happen if I am here. I already have all power/authority over the enemy greater is He that is in me than He thats in the world and nothing shall by any means hurt me. Oh we love to quote Matt 24 but.. oddly not what I just said. Yeah I have the ONLY true God IN ME and Satan will have power authority over me? No believer (Church) on the earth can take authority over him? Odd. OT NT God always saved His own. Not those that sinned didn't come back to Him blah blah blah.
Since I know God has not told anyone when Caught up will happen for it will since its written. And no one on this earth has any more info into this then anyone else. So I will be where Christ is (Fathers house right now) for He can not lie. He will come get us and we will be with Him. He is not coming to be with me where I am.
So I think hope something with the Church not being here has to happen. Well duh we know the enemy can not come out in the open as long as we are still here. He can't do lying wonders as he did before Christ came..odd something leaves then what was is again happening
Stormcrow
Member
Someone, somewhere, is always in the "end times". It depends on how you define it.