When home projects get stubborn

[Edward]

if I tried that and didn't get a permit ,and have a license ,jail time .

illegal in my state ,no way would I try as to sell my house requires a home inspector and I eventually plan to se'll it and not die in my county if the lord wills .

if its not code I would have to bring it up to code and pay double for that fix ,once for me and twice to bring up to code .

all cuz of the theft after hurricanes back in 2005,its a felony to work outside of your construction license

Nowadays the home inspector can roll up out front and pull up every permit that's ever been pulled at that address. Gotta uv them 'puters, lol.

But no permits for an improvement you did? No license, no code knowledge, oh they can roast you over the coals....except for, they can't always and I'll tell you why not. I'm used to dealing with the licensing and building department and got clued in to what the real deal is. The real deal is, Have you ever read a code book? It is littered with threats all throughout the book.
Example: ...and if this (whatever) installation does not meet these guidelines, then we can fine you and charge you triple permit fees for no permit, take your first born son and put you in Jail!!! (Or something similar)

And then it'll quote a State statute for you. It all reads real ominous and scary. But it's all smoke and mirrors Brother. Have you ever looked up any of the statutory references in the code book as threats? I have. I looked up a lot of them. And the real deal is (the intent), was so that no clueless clown would do A hack job and leave a hazardous condition. If you leave a potentially hazardous condition in place then you have reason to fear. But if you do it right (up to code) and do not leave a hazardous condition, then they can't really do anything to you.

See when I was a Contractor in Colorado, I didn't like having to force homeowners to buy a permit. I don't get paid for that and like one guy said, He can look at a mans work and see if it's good work or not, he don't have to pay them to babysit him about his house. And he is my customer, I want to please them and give them what they want. I am not the permit police. People used to ask me, please don't make me buy a permit...So I figured, ok, they're the customer. Besides, it wouldn't change my job. It's just as easy to do it right rather than wrong.

So I would tell people, If you want a permit then I'll get a permit and an inspection. This is good for people who have no clue about the work that was done, so it's good for them to have an inspector come out and make sure I did my job right.

But people who've worked the trades...I wont get a permit if you don't want the expense, But! If you try to sell the house and the home inspector sees the new water heater, they'll charge you a triple permit fee to pull the permit, and I do not pay for that triple fee. This is Your decision. If they have no plans to sell then you're pretty safe from inspector woes.

I remember one real nice black man I did his water heater and he said no permit (tipped me more than the permit fee would have been for not forcing him to get it!!) He had no plans to move. Everything was cool. But about 6 months later, his life plans changed somehow and he tried to sell his home and they caught the water heater job. He called me and was mad at first and asking if I pay the triple fee. And very slowly and calmly refreshed his memory and hey we talked about this, remember. And he did remember so it was cool with him.
But the regional building department (my license and the plumbing permit place) called me up and started screaming at me! Throwing bad threats at me and basically reaming me for no permit. I interupted him and said hey, whoa! He says, yeah? So I said well I know that you guys have not even been out there to see the job yet, or you wouldn't be on the phone to me. It will pass inspection. So go inspect it and if you want changes then I'll make changes. But it'll pass inspection. And it did pass too cuz I never heard back from them on it.

So a homeowner has more leeway at home than anywhere. In Colorado, the only permit that a homeowner can not pull is a Mechanical permit (furnaces & venting n such). I don't know how it is in Florida but you should be able to do a lot of your own work on your own house that you live in.

When I would drift out of my licensed trade for a job, like an Electrical job, I'd do the work and let the homeowner pull the permit if he wanted one. I know most electrical codes too. They used to let us HVAC guys pull the electrical permit for A/C units and RTU's but got greedy and took the electrical from us.

But the bottom line is, just do your work to code and it's not hard to find out code questions with Google lol. No potentially hazardous conditions...no problems for you!

 

[Fastfredy0]

I can plumb from underground to rooftop, just never took the Master's test.

Smokes ... you know this stuff. Makin' us look like amateurs.
Aside: Well, we are amateurs ... Good amateurs though.

Gee ... I think I use a shark bite fitting in my shower years ago... hmmm

 

[jasonc]

Nowadays the home inspector can roll up out front and pull up every permit that's ever been pulled at that address. Gotta uv them 'puters, lol.

But no permits for an improvement you did? No license, no code knowledge, oh they can roast you over the coals....except for, they can't always and I'll tell you why not. I'm used to dealing with the licensing and building department and got clued in to what the real deal is. The real deal is, Have you ever read a code book? It is littered with threats all throughout the book.
Example: ...and if this (whatever) installation does not meet these guidelines, then we can fine you and charge you triple permit fees for no permit, take your first born son and put you in Jail!!! (Or something similar)

And then it'll quote a State statute for you. It all reads real ominous and scary. But it's all smoke and mirrors Brother. Have you ever looked up any of the statutory references in the code book as threats? I have. I looked up a lot of them. And the real deal is (the intent), was so that no clueless clown would do A hack job and leave a hazardous condition. If you leave a potentially hazardous condition in place then you have reason to fear. But if you do it right (up to code) and do not leave a hazardous condition, then they can't really do anything to you.

See when I was a Contractor in Colorado, I didn't like having to force homeowners to buy a permit. I don't get paid for that and like one guy said, He can look at a mans work and see if it's good work or not, he don't have to pay them to babysit him about his house. And he is my customer, I want to please them and give them what they want. I am not the permit police. People used to ask me, please don't make me buy a permit...So I figured, ok, they're the customer. Besides, it wouldn't change my job. It's just as easy to do it right rather than wrong.

So I would tell people, If you want a permit then I'll get a permit and an inspection. This is good for people who have no clue about the work that was done, so it's good for them to have an inspector come out and make sure I did my job right.

But people who've worked the trades...I wont get a permit if you don't want the expense, But! If you try to sell the house and the home inspector sees the new water heater, they'll charge you a triple permit fee to pull the permit, and I do not pay for that triple fee. This is Your decision. If they have no plans to sell then you're pretty safe from inspector woes.

I remember one real nice black man I did his water heater and he said no permit (tipped me more than the permit fee would have been for not forcing him to get it!!) He had no plans to move. Everything was cool. But about 6 months later, his life plans changed somehow and he tried to sell his home and they caught the water heater job. He called me and was mad at first and asking if I pay the triple fee. And very slowly and calmly refreshed his memory and hey we talked about this, remember. And he did remember so it was cool with him.
But the regional building department (my license and the plumbing permit place) called me up and started screaming at me! Throwing bad threats at me and basically reaming me for no permit. I interupted him and said hey, whoa! He says, yeah? So I said well I know that you guys have not even been out there to see the job yet, or you wouldn't be on the phone to me. It will pass inspection. So go inspect it and if you want changes then I'll make changes. But it'll pass inspection. And it did pass too cuz I never heard back from them on it.

So a homeowner has more leeway at home than anywhere. In Colorado, the only permit that a homeowner can not pull is a Mechanical permit (furnaces & venting n such). I don't know how it is in Florida but you should be able to do a lot of your own work on your own house that you live in.

When I would drift out of my licensed trade for a job, like an Electrical job, I'd do the work and let the homeowner pull the permit if he wanted one. I know most electrical codes too. They used to let us HVAC guys pull the electrical permit for A/C units and RTU's but got greedy and took the electrical from us.

But the bottom line is, just do your work to code and it's not hard to find out code questions with Google lol. No potentially hazardous conditions...no problems for you!

kinda hard when they ask me to turn of the water for months ,and or if electrical ,can't just reinstall that meter without a county sign off.

my county has jailed ,that law is not old but applied because handyman promised to fix grooves and a year later they were ripped off in a weaker wind surge. or plumbing leaks and or in my case ,I have a bad fence because the owner said had I known he was doing your fence under my license ,I would warranty the work but I didn't get paid and he had him charged and arrested and convicted for doing that .

I have a personal friend who home inspects ,he posts videos of things done bad ,another who can any electrical work up to the pole pig and underground utilities and street light .he has sent me photos of bypassed meters and electrical boxes .

another friend who simply was brickworking her garage had cops ,all three with county code enforcement ,and halted that until permit pulled .

my former job jailed electric thieves .while it its up to code yes ,but again the history of how bad it was after the 4 storms of 2004 has changed things ,before a handy man could fix anything .

I'm not saying I like it or agree but I know the reasons of why and stories of persons who had to live for a while in fema trailers and or motels ,longer then they should have

 

[Fastfredy0]

Stovebolts...I don't think you should use shark bite fittings.

Speaking of bad experiences ... I had an electric outlet that worked at times and stopped working at other times. It was baffling and irritating. Well, eventually I took it apart and eventually after trying this and that came to the conclusion that the wire connection at the back of the plug was not functioning correctly (see red circle). I told the story to my brother-in-law who said he never uses those holes; rather, he just uses the screws to attach the wires. Anyone else been told to avoid the holes?

 

[Edward]

kinda hard when they ask me to turn of the water for months ,and or if electrical ,can't just reinstall that meter without a county sign off.

my county has jailed ,that law is not old but applied because handyman promised to fix grooves and a year later they were ripped off in a weaker wind surge. or plumbing leaks and or in my case ,I have a bad fence because the owner said had I known he was doing your fence under my license ,I would warranty the work but I didn't get paid and he had him charged and arrested and convicted for doing that .

I have a personal friend who home inspects ,he posts videos of things done bad ,another who can any electrical work up to the pole pig and underground utilities and street light .he has sent me photos of bypassed meters and electrical boxes .

another friend who simply was brickworking her garage had cops ,all three with county code enforcement ,and halted that until permit pulled .

my former job jailed electric thieves .while it its up to code yes ,but again the history of how bad it was after the 4 storms of 2004 has changed things ,before a handy man could fix anything .

I'm not saying I like it or agree but I know the reasons of why and stories of persons who had to live for a while in fema trailers and or motels ,longer then they should have

Well I'm just saying that, whatever job you do for yourself which is suposed to have a permit and an inspection, just find out what the code is for certain and then do it like it would pass inspection. If they come in and there's no hazardous condition and it would have passed inspection...what can they do? And just tell them that you care enough to find out how it is up to code so it'd be safe and you did it. So you endangered noone. They can prolly charge you the triple permit fee and get some money out of you but, if it's done right, they can't do anything because it's ok.

And I believe you that you could tell me lots of stories of people who did things and got into trouble for it. And I'll bet you ten dollars that all those ones who got into big trouble...left a dangerous half asked job so they should get in trouble for it. It is NOT all about the money (for a contractor), either the guy cares about his work or he doesn't. I always made sure that stuff I didn't pull permits on was all done right and would pass an inspection. So I never got in trouble. My dad taught me long ago that, don't worry about the money. Worry about your work. If you do good work, the money takes care of itself. Which means do it right is all. Then you ok.

The building codes are so very lenient here in Ohio! Boy, I didn't know how strict Colorado was until I moved here. When I first started working furnaces here, I would cut a deal for a new unit and get 1/2 down and then take a complete material list for the installer crew...Well they called me in wanting to know what all the extra material is for?
I said huh? You want it to pass inspection don't you? So do it this way, and they said that might be code in Colorado but it isnt here so we don't do that. I worked for those guys over a year and I don't think I ever saw an install here that would pass inspection in Colorado. They really like it brought up to snuff on a change out! Doublewall vent from the furnace connection to the vent. Here they let them use single wall pipe which condenses the moisture in the gas and it rusts out the vent and the top of the furnace which can lead to a dangerous condition by leaking vent pipes and carbon monoxide in the home.

They don't even use water pressure regulators in my area. Canton's city water pressure is only about 70 to 75 pounds here so they don't require the PRV's. But in Colorado street pressure was always between 125 and 150 pounds of pressure so we really needed the regulators out there.

 

[Edward]

Speaking of bad experiences ... I had an electric outlet that worked at times and stopped working at other times. It was baffling and irritating. Well, eventually I took it apart and eventually after trying this and that came to the conclusion that the wire connection at the back of the plug was not functioning correctly (see red circle). I told the story to my brother-in-law who said he never uses those holes; rather, he just uses the screws to attach the wires. Anyone else been told to avoid the holes?
View attachment 11182

I've worked at both company's. One said just use the holes and it's fine. The other company said use the screws or we'll get rid of you.

Remember, on any new switches and plugs, the brass screw is always the hot line.

 

[Edward]

Speaking of bad experiences ... I had an electric outlet that worked at times and stopped working at other times. It was baffling and irritating. Well, eventually I took it apart and eventually after trying this and that came to the conclusion that the wire connection at the back of the plug was not functioning correctly (see red circle). I told the story to my brother-in-law who said he never uses those holes; rather, he just uses the screws to attach the wires. Anyone else been told to avoid the holes?
View attachment 11182

After something has been plugged into it 10 thousand times then they get weak and loose inside. Time to replace that troublesome outlet and put in new!

 

[stovebolts]

Edward
Thanks for the tip. I used shark bites probably 10 years or more ago when I put in a half bath and I couldn’t solder because of where the pipes ran. They have held up great.
That being said, we’re on a well and don’t quote me, but I think I’ve got our bladder probably between 40 - 60 psi. I don’t remember.

As I write, I’m in a hotel in Fargo ND... I’m exhausted. I left home at 9 am this morning an I’ve put on 980 miles today and I have around 1,200 miles to put on tomorrow. I wanted to leave yesterday so I could have a day off to recover. As it sits, I’ll be in tomorrow night and I’ll have to get my ox and monitors set up because I’ll have to get up at 4:30 so I’m online by 5 which is 8 your time. I didn’t have a choice, I had to leave this morning.

That’s why I bought the shark bites. I spent 3 hours soldering all my joints Friday only to cut them all out Saturday about 10 am when I realized everything was so far out of square there was no way to make it work... it had to come out. And it hurt my pocketbook. I want to say I have about $160 in shark bites. Plain copper fittings were about $35.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Speaking of bad experiences ... I had an electric outlet that worked at times and stopped working at other times. It was baffling and irritating. Well, eventually I took it apart and eventually after trying this and that came to the conclusion that the wire connection at the back of the plug was not functioning correctly (see red circle). I told the story to my brother-in-law who said he never uses those holes; rather, he just uses the screws to attach the wires. Anyone else been told to avoid the holes?
View attachment 11182

Yep. Never use/used them myself.

 

[Edward]

Edward
Thanks for the tip. I used shark bites probably 10 years or more ago when I put in a half bath and I couldn’t solder because of where the pipes ran. They have held up great.
That being said, we’re on a well and don’t quote me, but I think I’ve got our bladder probably between 40 - 60 psi. I don’t remember.

As I write, I’m in a hotel in Fargo ND... I’m exhausted. I left home at 9 am this morning an I’ve put on 980 miles today and I have around 1,200 miles to put on tomorrow. I wanted to leave yesterday so I could have a day off to recover. As it sits, I’ll be in tomorrow night and I’ll have to get my ox and monitors set up because I’ll have to get up at 4:30 so I’m online by 5 which is 8 your time. I didn’t have a choice, I had to leave this morning.

That’s why I bought the shark bites. I spent 3 hours soldering all my joints Friday only to cut them all out Saturday about 10 am when I realized everything was so far out of square there was no way to make it work... it had to come out. And it hurt my pocketbook. I want to say I have about $160 in shark bites. Plain copper fittings were about $35.

You'll prolly be ok with Shark Bites on a well system cuz low pressure. nd yes, they are expensive. That's why I usually only stocked a very few fittings. Mostly just1/2" & 3/4" caps to cap lines off and get at least some water back on for them, lol.

5 o'clock your time isn't 8 o'clock for me. I'm in Ohio and you Michigan. We should only be at most 1 hour difference. Right? I'm on Eastern time.

 

[jasonc]

I posted a lengthy response but wonderful Asian tech ,simply gonna say this my wife grow up in homes her dad framed ,she is anal ,for me to learn to be perfect one my first time would take a miracle and most people I know that could ,I wouldn't ask them to do a major renovation for free because that's a skill they have . work during the day ,and for free for me ?
next old homes like Jeff's aren't often saved or if not razed so modified you can't tell it was an old home .see my photo as this was sold and gutted ,I,saw it might face a demo and took this photo as I cut off the water .

 

[jasonc]

the only thing left on that old home is its back porch ,often used for laundry and have the water connections for it .front porch is gone ,its cuteness gone ,lt is s common theme of its style that I see ,a few identical in color .often called a key West home ,.but are wood frame vernacular ,I have three photos of these ,this is one ,the other two as well,the farthest west one has a carriage house as does the other one near this one .this one was built in 1935 .

 

[Edward]

I found out that Ohio is cool about harvesting rainwater. I have a big roof. It was illegal in Colorado to collect rainwater. They're buttheads out there. Outlawed wood burners too (new ones). That really sucks! So theres a couple points better for Ohio along those lines, lol.

I think I'm going to make a rain barrel system.

That is a cool house.

 

[JLB]

I'm lucky, we don't have any building codes. I just figure things out. Youtube was helpful when making a shower (how to do the shower pan especially). My relatives are in Canada and they all like doing this sort of thing. Brother-in-law helped me split one 18'x12' bedroom into two bedrooms (to accommodate my son's growing family), daughter-in-law's father helped me make office in garage, father-in-law built stairs, other brother-in-law helped installed sliding doors, etc. I did do 90% of the work. Unfortunately, I've about run out of jobs for them to do ... lol

Looked liked snow in that one pic of yours. I left Toronto to go to Texas 25ish years ago because I disliked the cold. I see you have a 40' tower. I installed one for my dad in the 90s when everyone was getting rid of their towers and were happy to give them away for free.


The deck is on the NNW side of the house. It only gets sun in the evenings from the West which is good as TEXAS is hot. But, we don't use it much. We have a dock we use alot. That was another project. I saved 2K by taking down the old dock.
View attachment 11176
Paid someone to put up a new one. He did everything except the 12'x12' storage room, plumbing and I also did 80% of electrical (contractor brought wiring to a box and did the boat lift.
View attachment 11177



Well, I probably take 3 times as long to do it. My first room it took me 10 times as long.


Looks like you are out in farm country.


Changing subjects... finally, here is a picture of my performing my 1st miracle. I think it takes two miracles to be given saint hood by the pope. (I think a person also must be dead for saint hood, so I may wait awhile before performing my second miracle... )
Where as Peter had difficulty with this, perhaps the pope will be satisfied with only one miracle. (optional: read the small print below)
View attachment 11178
(A papal inquiry into the validity of this miracle is on going. Many members of the panel are of the opinion that the lake water was 1/4 inch above some yet to be identified support structure; possibly a walkway and not a large fish as first reported.)

Cowboy fan.


Nice

 

[jasonc]

that was used as a business it should say wagon wheel ,its been a fee things ,a salon ,ice cream store and music lessons ,the wagon wheel is what it was in this photo ,the home here is the owners house before both were sold .they sold this to one who will appreciate it View attachment 11186

 

[stovebolts]

You'll prolly be ok with Shark Bites on a well system cuz low pressure. nd yes, they are expensive. That's why I usually only stocked a very few fittings. Mostly just1/2" & 3/4" caps to cap lines off and get at least some water back on for them, lol.

5 o'clock your time isn't 8 o'clock for me. I'm in Ohio and you Michigan. We should only be at most 1 hour difference. Right? I'm on Eastern time.

I’m traveling to Washington state. Mom isn’t doing well.

 

[stovebolts]

Fastfredy0 thats a pretty nice dock! It looks great! That would be a “fun” project!

BTW, I’ll do electrical any day of the week over plumbing.?

Time to hit the road!

 

[Edward]

I’m traveling to Washington state. Mom isn’t doing well.

Oh I get it now.

Sorry to hear that about your mom. I'll pray for her.

 

[jasonc]

that was used as a business it should say wagon wheel ,its been a fee things ,a salon ,ice cream store and music lessons ,the wagon wheel is what it was in this photo ,the home here is the owners house before both were sold .they sold this to one who will appreciate it View attachment 11186

every time I see this one on avilla ,the thought of tony young saying this today is good day comes to,mind .the sun was shining that day ,I was down over the changes to the job .sentimental about the former job .
that and its history ,these are called traditional miniminalist and these wood frame ones here are less common. with sliding ,the older ones were ornate .but I digress