When was Jesus Christ really Born?

[WalterandDebbie]

The Scriptures show us that Jesus Christ was born "in the days of Herod the king" (Matt.2:1). Herod was so fixated on the fact that wise men from the East queried him about a child born to be "King of the Jews," that he pretended that he, too, desired to worship him (Matt.2:7-8). The wise men were warned not to return to Herod, and departed into their own country, and Joseph and Mary took Jesus and fled to Egypt.
When the wise men did not inform Herod of where the prophesied King was, Herod "was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men" (verse 16).
Jesus, then, had to be born before the death of Herod the Great. The gospel of Luke confirms this fact. Luke recorded, "There was in the days of Herod, king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zecharias" (Luke 1:5). During this time, the gospel continues, John the Baptist and Jesus the Christ were born.

The Death of Herod
What year, then, did Herod die? Was he still alive in 3 B.C.? Let's notice the evidence.
2
In Peloubet's Bible Dictionary, we read: "Herod died of a terrible disease, at Jericho, in April, 4 B.C., at the age of 69, after a long reign of 37 years" ("Herod," p.252).
The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible points out, "The birth of Jesus Christ took place at the close of Herod's life . . . Seized at length with loathsome and mortal disease, he repaired to Callirhoe, the hot sulphur springs on the e. part of the Dead Sea. . . . Then, about 4 B.C., he died . . ." (p.382).

 

[Willie T]

I'm pretty sure it was about nine months after the angel visited Mary.

 

[Malachi]

According to The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey, Christ was born in 4 B.C. (or 4,038 An. Hom.). It was probably either in September or October, not December. Anstey went strictly by the Bible record. Luke says that Cyrenius was governor of Syria at that time. This Cyrenius was Publius Sulpicius Qurinius, who was "legate" of Syria between 5 and 3 B.C.

 

[turnorburn]

i just received an email from a friend in Australia he said they have some sort of celebration in September..

tob

 

[19DuggarFan]

i just received an email from a friend in Australia he said they have some sort of celebration in September..

tob

Yes there are three Jewish Feast that can happen in the months of September and October; The Feast of Trumpets or Rosh Hashanah, Yum Kippur, and Feast of Tabernacle also known as Booth or Sukkot. Many Bible Scholars believe that Jesus was born on the first day of the seven day Feast of Tabernacle. If Jesus was 33 and half years old when He died on the Cross for our sins at Passover that would but His birth on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacle. For this feast is exactly 6 months before and or after Passover. And what better day for the Word of God to become the Only Begotten Son of God, than the day when Israel celebrated living in tents instead of their houses, for Jesus Christ, God Divine dwelt or tabernacle in human flesh.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Je'di-Benjamin]

Amen. That was exciting!

 

[stovebolts]

This discussion has been hashed out many times on this forum. Too bad I can't find the thread. I'm sure somebody with more patience could search it out

What I can remember is they base the birth of Jesus from Zachariah and it starts with his service in the Temple. It takes a little digging with genealogy, but if I recall, it had something to do with when David set designated times for the line of priests of Aaron to serve. (only the priests from the line of Aaron could administrate within the temple per the law of Moses). Essentially, this line served these months and on down the list. Kinda like the sons of Joseph. I can't remember what scriptures the schedule is listed. Maybe Chronicles?

Anyway, with the schedule of temple service, you can track exactly which month Zachariah served in the temple, which gives us the birth of John the Baptist. We can then use that date to determine the birth of Jesus.

 

[TOG]

I'm pretty sure it was about nine months after the angel visited Mary.

Jesus was born in the fall, probably during the Feast of Tabernacles. Herod died in the spring. Besides that, the wise men didn't come to the manger. They came later, and when they arrived, they found Jesus not in a manger, but in a house. Herod didn't die until after that event, which could have been up to 2 years after Jesus was born.

The TOG​

 

[stovebolts]

Jesus was born in the fall, probably during the Feast of Tabernacles. Herod died in the spring. Besides that, the wise men didn't come to the manger. They came later, and when they arrived, they found Jesus not in a manger, but in a house. Herod didn't die until after that event, which could have been up to 2 years after Jesus was born.

The TOG​

Yup
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/when-was-jesus-born.57395/

 

[tim-from-pa]

This discussion has been hashed out many times on this forum. Too bad I can't find the thread. I'm sure somebody with more patience could search it out

What I can remember is they base the birth of Jesus from Zachariah and it starts with his service in the Temple. It takes a little digging with genealogy, but if I recall, it had something to do with when David set designated times for the line of priests of Aaron to serve. (only the priests from the line of Aaron could administrate within the temple per the law of Moses). Essentially, this line served these months and on down the list. Kinda like the sons of Joseph. I can't remember what scriptures the schedule is listed. Maybe Chronicles?

Anyway, with the schedule of temple service, you can track exactly which month Zachariah served in the temple, which gives us the birth of John the Baptist. We can then use that date to determine the birth of Jesus.

Hey Stove, yeah we've been over this quite often. And yes, the temple service and courses of the priests are used to find out when he was born, which (along with history) agrees with the 3 premises I always put out, so you can do a search for these things (such as 12240) and you'll find them where I mentioned them in this forum. To summarize:

1. Revelation 12:1 describes the astronomical position that he was born, which is the feast of Trumpets. The description of the woman and dragon are directly related to Virgo and Draco and has astronomical significance. God's Word in the stars foretold of his redemptive plan, and his victory over Satan, so these constellations are symbolic (like Revelation12) of an actual event. It would be fitting to place the sun in Virgo, the same constellation that represented the Virgin Mary at his birth, and not just any constellation such as Taurus which would then nullify the whole point of God's Word in the stars.
2. He lived exactly 12240 days = 360 x 34 (prophetic years). He began his ministry at 30 and ministered for 3.5 years. 33.5 solar years is approximately 34 prophetic ones.
3. The year he was crucified had to have Nisan 14 occur on a Wednesday to fulfil properly Matthew 12:40 (and a day is well defined by Christ himself in John 11:9).

Using these 3 criteria, I can not only tell the time of the year he was born (and died), but also the actual years themselves which do not contradict history, or the other biblical clues.

I'm not so much concerned with the actual year # such as 4BC or 6BC or whatever as much as the time of year. However, with those 3 criteria, only one set of years (if we consider the crucifixion from 26-36AD) works out mathematically perfectly to satisfy those criteria. As a matter of fact, when using these criteria while calculating a few years back, I had no idea if it would work out or if I'd find any years that would work. There's all sorts of criteria people spit out and when testing them they usually don't work out which is why there's debates (I guess people pick the "closest"). But to my surprise and jaw-dropping, these 3 did work out perfectly, and the dates of his birth/death are not far from conventional date setting. This gave me confidence I was on the right track. I don't know of anyone else who teaches this besides myself. It's humbling, and yet right under our noses and everyone misses it!

 

[Rick W]

This really doesn't belong in the Foyer. The "public" can read most of the forums here and this topic's participants are all members anyway. lol
Moved to "Apologetics & Theology".

 

[tim-from-pa]

I agree 110%, Rick. I did not realize it was the foyer until after I posted as I got the link from the 10 most recent posts. Thanks for letting my message being posted, but except for this post I won't post in this area any longer for discussion or debate. I merely was summarizing my theories and suggesting to link to the other posts that have them in it. After all, I don't want to have to retype everything I already did. Again, thanks for posting this, but yes, lets go to another area to discuss this further for those interested.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Oops! You ALREADY moved it Rick! I did not notice again! I have to pay more attention to the paths that the threads are in.

 

[Butch5]

The Scriptures show us that Jesus Christ was born "in the days of Herod the king" (Matt.2:1). Herod was so fixated on the fact that wise men from the East queried him about a child born to be "King of the Jews," that he pretended that he, too, desired to worship him (Matt.2:7-8). The wise men were warned not to return to Herod, and departed into their own country, and Joseph and Mary took Jesus and fled to Egypt.
When the wise men did not inform Herod of where the prophesied King was, Herod "was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men" (verse 16).
Jesus, then, had to be born before the death of Herod the Great. The gospel of Luke confirms this fact. Luke recorded, "There was in the days of Herod, king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zecharias" (Luke 1:5). During this time, the gospel continues, John the Baptist and Jesus the Christ were born.

The Death of Herod
What year, then, did Herod die? Was he still alive in 3 B.C.? Let's notice the evidence.
2
In Peloubet's Bible Dictionary, we read: "Herod died of a terrible disease, at Jericho, in April, 4 B.C., at the age of 69, after a long reign of 37 years" ("Herod," p.252).
The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible points out, "The birth of Jesus Christ took place at the close of Herod's life . . . Seized at length with loathsome and mortal disease, he repaired to Callirhoe, the hot sulphur springs on the e. part of the Dead Sea. . . . Then, about 4 B.C., he died . . ." (p.382).

I believe He was born Sept 12 3 BC. John said in Revelation,

NKJ Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. (Rev 12:1-5 NKJ)

It's my understanding that Virgo, depicted by a woman is clothed with the Son in September and the moon was under her feet on Sept 12 three BC. I understand 3 BC. to be the year because typically when Virgo is clothed with the son with the moon under her feet there are 10 stars in her crown, not 12. However, in 3 BC. there were two additional stars, I believe they were the planets Mercury and Venus. These would make the 12 stars in her crown.

 

[TOG]

I believe He was born Sept 12 3 BC. John said in Revelation,

NKJ Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. (Rev 12:1-5 NKJ)

It's my understanding that Virgo, depicted by a woman is clothed with the Son in September and the moon was under her feet on Sept 12 three BC. I understand 3 BC. to be the year because typically when Virgo is clothed with the son with the moon under her feet there are 10 stars in her crown, not 12. However, in 3 BC. there were two additional stars, I believe they were the planets Mercury and Venus. These would make the 12 stars in her crown.

Herod died in the spring of 4 BC. Jesus couldn't have been born any later than that. If we are correct in believing that he was born in the fall, then it would have been no later than the fall of 5 BC.

The TOG​

 

[tim-from-pa]

Herod died in the spring of 4 BC. Jesus couldn't have been born any later than that. If we are correct in believing that he was born in the fall, then it would have been no later than the fall of 5 BC.

The TOG​

The death date of Herod is not set in stone by agreement. They calculated the eclipse time to get that traditional 4BC date but there were other acceptable eclipses that occurred just before he died and yet before Passover according to Josephus. I also saw that using my astronomy program. Some go as high as 1AD.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I believe He was born Sept 12 3 BC. John said in Revelation,

NKJ Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. (Rev 12:1-5 NKJ)

It's my understanding that Virgo, depicted by a woman is clothed with the Son in September and the moon was under her feet on Sept 12 three BC. I understand 3 BC. to be the year because typically when Virgo is clothed with the son with the moon under her feet there are 10 stars in her crown, not 12. However, in 3 BC. there were two additional stars, I believe they were the planets Mercury and Venus. These would make the 12 stars in her crown.

I am familiar with the 3BC date. The alignment was good then, but I found the alignment 2 years later even better. The 12 stars reference Leo in some way although I'm not sure which stars. In addition, 33.5 years later brings us to 34AD whereas with 3BC to 32 AD. The 34 AD is the year that works out to proper Passover timing better. I am leery to use planets in calculations and especially "the star of Bethlehem" since that involves astrological interpretation as to what their position means bordering on astrology. We can be certain what the sun and moon means, however. Those were used to tell the time and date.

But I'm not saying that 3BC date is bad with the alignment. It a good starting point if one is searching for these times. I just did not find it fitting well with the other criteria.

 

[Sinthesis]

If Jesus was born during Tabernacles when everyone was living in tents, wouldn't there have been room at the inn?

 

[Butch5]

Herod died in the spring of 4 BC. Jesus couldn't have been born any later than that. If we are correct in believing that he was born in the fall, then it would have been no later than the fall of 5 BC.

The TOG​

That assumes that the date of 4 BC. is correct, I'm not sure it is.

 

[Butch5]

I am familiar with the 3BC date. The alignment was good then, but I found the alignment 2 years later even better. The 12 stars reference Leo in some way although I'm not sure which stars. In addition, 33.5 years later brings us to 34AD whereas with 3BC to 32 AD. The 34 AD is the year that works out to proper Passover timing better. I am leery to use planets in calculations and especially "the star of Bethlehem" since that involves astrological interpretation as to what their position means bordering on astrology. We can be certain what the sun and moon means, however. Those were used to tell the time and date.

But I'm not saying that 3BC date is bad with the alignment. It a good starting point if one is searching for these times. I just did not find it fitting well with the other criteria.

I haven't really studied it that deeply. As I understand it He was born on Rosh Hashanah