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Serving Zion

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I agree that we are to put our faith in God for our healing. But one of the problems is people don't have that type of faith. Some people even misunderstand what faith is. For example, I have heard for years preachers say that all we need is little faith, like the faith of a mustard seed. Those who don't know think this is true. But in taking the time to read the scriptures, you will find out that little faith is incorrect. Jesus said many times in disappointment with his disciples who failed to exercise faith, "Oh ye of little faith." So if little faith was correct, then why would Jesus say that?

So, to explain what's required for faith of a mustard seed, let's look at what Jesus was talking about. Jesus said "if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed..., Matthew 17:20. The word here is "AS," meaning, THE SAME TYPE of faith the GRAIN had. Why have the same type of faith AS a grain of mustard seed? Because the grain was very little in the beginning. But the mustard seed had GREAT FAITH because it was "the seed itself" wich possessed faith; once it was planted, it would be a great magnificent tree. The GREAT faith of the mustard was that it would produce something much more magnificent, a flourishing tree.

See how misunderstanding what Jesus said causes people to believe that all we need is little faith, which yields nothing, when in fact what’s being said is we must have great faith, which yields abundance.

Because a great number of people misunderstand faith, they tell other people the wrong thing, and that person ends up believing them instead of searching the scriptures. So due to the wrong practice of believing man and not the word, we end up with the wrong understanding of what God is telling His people about faith.

Another issue with having the type of faith you are talking about is we don't believe we are supposed to have this type of faith, which is mentioned in the bible. Jesus’s ministry was about healing and casting out devils. He gave his disciples the ability to heal, and the apostles were given the ability to heal and cast out devils. But, because we can't imagine ourselves having the fruits of faith, we just don't believe, not understanding that faith requires that we “believe first” before we see the evidence. Say there are two people diagnosed with the same disease that the doctors say will not heal. Both pray to God: One person who only sees his illness, prays regardless, and is healed because they believe God heard their prayer, and they expected to be healed being very sick, but the other person was not healed because they could not believe, although they prayed. The person who was not healed was lacking faith.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. This means you already have that thing that you hope for. A good example is like when you made an online purchase, and you are waiting for the item to be delivered in a few days. Well, the substance of the thing you paid for is hoped for in three days to arrive in the mail

Faith is the evidence of things not seen. The same example: You make a purchase, and pay for your item online, and now you wait for the evidence of that thing that you paid for to be delivered in the mail.


2 Corinthians 5:7, For we walk by FAITH, not by SIGHT

When Peter said "Lord increase my faith" he was admitting he did not have the type of faith that Jesus said we are to have. So that tells us that to have proper faith, we must ask God, pray for it, and continue to examine our faith until our faith increases to the type of faith God say we should have. Somehow faith is not understood today.

Thank God that you see faith as the deciding factor for perfect healing today.

But because so many don't, God loves us anyway, and knows that we lack faith, so he helps us out by giving doctors the ability to heal through medicine. That was my point!

Keep increasing your faith through prayer, you will be blessed and others will be blessed also!
That's a very nice sermon there, and I like it for the most part. It is sad to hear that there have been preachers that have thought the right idea was to exhonerate those who have less faith, and I never imagined that might have been what the scriptures were trying to teach - but of course it doesn't come as a surprise to me that someone could have thought that way and believed it.

But because so many don't, God loves us anyway, and knows that we lack faith, so he helps us out by giving doctors the ability to heal through medicine. That was my point!
No, well my point is that the medical industry is competing in the same field as faith healing, so when it comes to the crunch there is going to be one or the other that prevails. The question we only need to ask, is who do you turn to for healing?
 

christian1724

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Serving Zion

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The main reason they want to force vaccination on everyone is because they believe that if everyone develops immunity to the virus then it will fizzle out relatively quickly - and their way of thinking is that the longer the virus is propagating, the more chance it has to mutate into new forms that perhaps the vaccines will not be effective against.

You have said that you understand there have been variations of the virus coming as a result of the virus breaking-through the herd immunity, even in places where there is a high proportion of vaccinated population. If it was factual that the herd immunity induced by the vaccine is not effective to prevent variations of the virus, then it would undermind the argument of theirs that says the vaccine is effective to prevent the virus from mutating. This is why I have asked for evidence.

Those links you have shown, although I haven't studied them in depth, they seem to be only saying that there is a chance for vaccinated people to still become infected, and it says that they also have a stronger immune response despite that. But there isn't anything that I have seen in there that says there have been mutations of the virus in populations where there is a high proportion of vaccinated people. That's the evidence I am looking for. In our country they are making arrangements to enforce a vaccine passport, and their main rationale is as I have explained, to say that if we are not vaccinated then we are causing a risk of producing variations that will prolong the pandemic. This is why I would like to see evidence to show that their philosophy is unreliable. Perhaps it is just that I haven't noticed the particular words that have given you that impression, and if so, would you kindly copy/paste them for me? Many thanks :)
 

hawkman

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The main reason they want to force vaccination on everyone is because they believe that if everyone develops immunity to the virus then it will fizzle out relatively quickly - and their way of thinking is that the longer the virus is propagating, the more chance it has to mutate into new forms that perhaps the vaccines will not be effective against.

You have said that you understand there have been variations of the virus coming as a result of the virus breaking-through the herd immunity, even in places where there is a high proportion of vaccinated population. If it was factual that the herd immunity induced by the vaccine is not effective to prevent variations of the virus, then it would undermind the argument of theirs that says the vaccine is effective to prevent the virus from mutating. This is why I have asked for evidence.

Those links you have shown, although I haven't studied them in depth, they seem to be only saying that there is a chance for vaccinated people to still become infected, and it says that they also have a stronger immune response despite that. But there isn't anything that I have seen in there that says there have been mutations of the virus in populations where there is a high proportion of vaccinated people. That's the evidence I am looking for. In our country they are making arrangements to enforce a vaccine passport, and their main rationale is as I have explained, to say that if we are not vaccinated then we are causing a risk of producing variations that will prolong the pandemic. This is why I would like to see evidence to show that their philosophy is unreliable. Perhaps it is just that I haven't noticed the particular words that have given you that impression, and if so, would you kindly copy/paste them for me? Many thanks :)
A couple of links for you .

Israel's COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Exceed 50%

Although I have heard it is getting better in Israel since the booster has been rolled out .

Breakthrough cases in Cape Cod cluster raise questions at CDC

I read another article giving reasons they thought the out break was so bad in Cape Cod . People were crowded in places without much ventilation ,if I remember correctly .
 

Randy

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Many years ago I had a series of very bad colds. I cried out to the Lord whom I believe in and love for healing. A short time later I was in a store. I don't remember why but I do remember standing in front of the cold medicine and feeling at that very moment a loving touch of the Spirit. I wasn't healed and didn't receive what I asked for but I treasured in my heart the love Jesus has for me. He cares.

That's my testimony.
 

christian1724

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The main reason they want to force vaccination on everyone is because they believe that if everyone develops immunity to the virus then it will fizzle out relatively quickly - and their way of thinking is that the longer the virus is propagating, the more chance it has to mutate into new forms that perhaps the vaccines will not be effective against.

You have said that you understand there have been variations of the virus coming as a result of the virus breaking-through the herd immunity, even in places where there is a high proportion of vaccinated population. If it was factual that the herd immunity induced by the vaccine is not effective to prevent variations of the virus, then it would undermind the argument of theirs that says the vaccine is effective to prevent the virus from mutating. This is why I have asked for evidence.

Those links you have shown, although I haven't studied them in depth, they seem to be only saying that there is a chance for vaccinated people to still become infected, and it says that they also have a stronger immune response despite that. But there isn't anything that I have seen in there that says there have been mutations of the virus in populations where there is a high proportion of vaccinated people. That's the evidence I am looking for. In our country they are making arrangements to enforce a vaccine passport, and their main rationale is as I have explained, to say that if we are not vaccinated then we are causing a risk of producing variations that will prolong the pandemic. This is why I would like to see evidence to show that their philosophy is unreliable. Perhaps it is just that I haven't noticed the particular words that have given you that impression, and if so, would you kindly copy/paste them for me? Many thanks :)
Hey Serving Zion, Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner.

I think I see what you are seeking. According to my understanding of the term "breakthrough" variant, it is referring to a mutation of the virus that the vaccinee antibodies were not highly effective at neutralizing. I don't think that is it suggesting that the mutated virus came into existence within a particular vaccinated population, but I know very little of virology or immune systems and I may have that wrong. At any rate, I'm just going by the "COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Case Investigation and Reporting" from that CDC website:
quote:
Defining a vaccine breakthrough infection

For the purpose of this surveillance, a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person =14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine.

It is also my understanding that viruses of this sort are continually presenting minor mutations. This being the case, since the 'vaccines' do not prevent infections but merely decrease the severity of the symptoms, you would think that vaccinated people can be the source of a new variant same as natural immunity or for that matter anyone.

We know that the efficiency of the vaccine is reducing over time in vaccinated population. For example let's say American population is 330 million and that the current vaccinated population is around 210 million people and the current natural immunity population is 60 million. Lets also, for purposes of discussion, say that the successful neutralization of the virus in vaccinated people is currently reduced to an average 75% (instead of, say, 95%). Twenty five percent( 100%-75%) of 210 million vaccinated population has substantially lost it's protection from the original and current strains of the virus. That would mean that about 52 million of the previously vaxxed people could be substantially unprotected. That is about as many people as the unvaxxed and non immune population.

You say "The main reason they want to force...". Honestly, since I don't think that it was a matter of evidence that brought them ("they") to their belief, I don't think you will be successful persuading them away from their belief with evidence. And don't forget that many of these same proponents for mandates tend to disallow discussion of other viable methods of virus control (natural immunity,vitamin D and Zinc, or HCQ for example).

I pray you maintain the faith be a blessing to many people.
 

Serving Zion

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my understanding of the term "breakthrough" variant
That's the part I am looking for. It is well understood that there can be instances of infection among the vaccinated, that is called "breakthrough infection" but I haven't seen evidence of any "breakthrough variant" coming from vaccinated populations as you have said. That would be perfect evidence to nullify their argument, and yes you are right that heaven and earth shall pass away before even a stroke of law shall fail (meaning that they will kill if they are made to believe it is lawful), it is still over to the courts to decide whether such mandates are lawful, and that is where evidence of any incorrect premise would be useful.
don't forget that many of these same proponents for mandates tend to disallow discussion of other viable methods of virus control (natural immunity,vitamin D and Zinc, or HCQ for example)
I am not forgetting. They have the blood on their hands.
 
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christian1724

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That's the part I am looking for. It is well understood that there can be instances of infection among the vaccinated, that is called "breakthrough infection" but I haven't seen evidence of any "breakthrough variant" coming from vaccinated populations as you have said.
Breakthrough viruses come through vaxxed populations, probably because that's how they are most easily identified as possible breakthrough variants. That's the CDCs definition. Because they can mutate, they can come from anyone, vaxxed or unvaxxed.

The issue is whether then is whether "they" have to right to blame/claim the unvaxxed are the reason for the failure of the vaccinee anti-bodies. It's commonly reported that the effectiveness of the vaccines are wearing off over time, more so than that of natural immunity. That's why I tried to show how without continual booster shots (or an actual vaccine), eventually, the vaxxed population will be the larger source of new variants. Hopefully, they will learn to let their immune systems produce the better anti-bodies against these new variants and be better protected over time.

That would be perfect evidence to nullify their argument, and yes you are right that heaven and earth shall pass away before even a stroke of law shall fail (meaning that they will kill if they are made to believe it is lawful), it is still over to the courts to decide whether such mandates are lawful, and that is where evidence of any incorrect premise would be useful.
The 'courts' may debate all they want, but the fact is that the mandates are already unlawful and nothing that they determine will change that. It is up to each individual to discover this. I am thankful that we have people such as yourself to try and help them discover this and other Truths.
 

Serving Zion

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Because they can mutate, they can come from anyone, vaxxed or unvaxxed.
I understand that theory, but it isn't likely to convince anyone who has already believed that a vaccine mandate is the only way to get through this. Here is what I am talking about: https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1971 There it lists 8 distinct variations of the virus, but it doesn't say that any of those have evolved from among populations where there is a high proportion vaccinated. So at this stage, all we have is your understanding being the reason we should believe that the vaccine is not effective to stop new strains from evolving, and that's simply not enough. In the face of evidence on the other hand that the vaccinated are more resilient to the virus, there really is nothing much in the argument that is only based on a theory. But it is key to vindicating the ones who wish to take a natural approach toward developing immunity.

nothing that they determine will change that.
That would be a contempt of court. If a court determines that a mandate is unlawful, then law enforcement cannot enforce it.
 

Hidden In Him

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I’ve tried talking to God. I pray but it feels like I’m praying to emptiness. I don’t see any change or anything that is wrong in my life eased in any way. I feel like he’s not there

I realize this was 6-7 months ago, but if you are still largely in the same place, the answer is to spend time at His feet. Give yourself alone time with God, sit down with your Bible, pray to God to start showing His word and His ways, and them open it and start reading and let Him teach you. What happens is that Jesus said, "My words are Spirit and Life," and you will feel the Spirit of God begin to strengthen you and give you faith where you once had only doubts. You are able to believe God to help you in your problems as well, because He has ceased to be someone you just go to when you are in trouble and has become Someone you spend quality time with. He's no longer a stranger you feel can't even hear your voice.

This is what Peter was trying to teach in 2 Peter 1:

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11)

People try to simply "believe" without truly investing themselves in God. This causes them to doubt their salvation, and their relationship with God if they are not careful. But if you spend time with God and build these things into your life, a spiritual strength and a confidence rises within you, and you no longer wonder if God is truly there. You KNOW He is there because you can now see Him working in your life.

I'll get to your OP question later on. It's an important one.

God bless,
- H
 
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