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Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

reddogs

reddogs

Member
If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing. Paul exhorts in Corinthians that Circumcision is nothing in comparison to the Ten Commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Since there are more than forty verses and up to ten verses at a time clearly stating that Circumcision of the flesh is a yoke of bondage and abolished, how many scriptures would you expect stating the Sabbath was abolished or changed to Sunday? Perhaps seventy or more?The fact is there is not even one verse that says, 'The Sabbath is abolished' or is now Sunday.

Acts 15:1-19 The Council at Jerusalem​

1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Ten Commandments are the only thing that God personally spoke and then personally etched His Law into stone tablets with His own finger. Yet there is not one clear scripture or commandment from Christ or even a direction from a apostle or as you can see from the Jerusalem Council to abolish the Sabbath anywhere in scripture, just a couple of erroneous assumptions. One of God's Commandments supposedly changes or is abolished and we do not have even one clear verse. Why not? The answer is simple. It was never abolished or changed to Sunday by the authority of God so no such scripture exists..
 
Last edited:
reddogs said:
If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing. Paul exhorts in Corinthians that Circumcision is nothing in comparison to the Ten Commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Since there are more than forty verses and up to ten verses at a time clearly stating that Circumcision of the flesh is a yoke of bondage and abolished, how many scriptures would you expect stating the Sabbath was abolished or changed to Sunday? Perhaps seventy or more?The fact is there is not even one verse that says, 'The Sabbath is abolished' or is now Sunday.

Acts 15:1-19 The Council at Jerusalem​

1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Ten Commandments are the only thing that God personally spoke and then personally etched His Law into stone tablets with His own finger. Yet there is not one clear scripture or commandment from Christ or even a direction from a apostle or as you can see from the Jerusalem Council to abolish the Sabbath anywhere in scripture, just a couple of erroneous assumptions. One of God's Commandments supposedly changes or is abolished and we do not have even one clear verse. Why not? The answer is simple. It was never abolished or changed to Sunday by the authority of God so no such scripture exists..
Click to expand...
The best indication of the sabbath's passing is in Col 2:14-17..."Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
Sabbath keeping was part of the "ordinances".
Paul goes on in Col 2:20-23..."Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
Sabbaths were the "shadow"-presage of life in Christ; separate from the world and its filthiness.
For Christians, every day is "the Lord's day".
 
Who says it was abolished? Where did you get that impression? If you get to rest one or more days a week and participate in any worship activity on that day, no matter which day it is, it's your Sabbath.

We all know that the origin of Sabbath is God's rest on the 7th day at the end of the creation week. Why did God rest? God didn't need rest, WE DO. It sets a work-rest cycle for US to follow, that's the purpose. Although it's the 4th commandment, it's also a BLESSING, a sign of freedom. We all need such a rhythm of life, we're designed in this way. The pharisees' fault is that they made a load of regulations that were neither stated nor implied in the Mosaic law, that turned this blessing into a curse.
 
Greetings reddogs,
reddogs said:
If the Sabbath was abolished
Click to expand...
I consider that the True Believer finds rest in Christ, and that the Sabbath was only a type of this rest. The following passages indicate this fact.
Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 3:7–4:10 (KJV): 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Spirit saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I have quoted both of these passages at length and hopefully the highlighting will help. Both passages speak of the True Rest in Christ and the extensive quotation from the Letter to the Hebrews was very relevant as the Hebrew Christians approached AD 70. These Jewish Christians had to cut their ties with the Law and the Temple Worship in Jerusalem and come to understand the full revelation in God's Son Hebrews 1:1-2. "Sabbath Keeping" fades away into insignificance when we rest in Christ.

On another matter, but related, I consider the description of "The Sabbath Question" in the Last Days as explained by EG White in her book "The Great Controversy" has absolutely no foundation in the Bible, and unfortunately you as a SDA most probably accept her false prophecy on this matter. Would you like me to quote what she states concerning the Sabbath at the Time of the End? Do you believe that it will mainly be the Seventh Day Sabbath Keepers who will be rescued and taken to heaven at Christ's return while nearly everyone else will be burnt with fire?

Kind regards
Trevor
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings reddogs,

I consider that the True Believer finds rest in Christ, and that the Sabbath was only a type of this rest. The following passages indicate this fact.
Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 3:7–4:10 (KJV): 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Spirit saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I have quoted both of these passages at length and hopefully the highlighting will help. Both passages speak of the True Rest in Christ and the extensive quotation from the Letter to the Hebrews was very relevant as the Hebrew Christians approached AD 70. These Jewish Christians had to cut their ties with the Law and the Temple Worship in Jerusalem and come to understand the full revelation in God's Son Hebrews 1:1-2. "Sabbath Keeping" fades away into insignificance when we rest in Christ.

On another matter, but related, I consider the description of "The Sabbath Question" in the Last Days as explained by EG White in her book "The Great Controversy" has absolutely no foundation in the Bible, and unfortunately you as a SDA most probably accept her false prophecy on this matter. Would you like me to quote what she states concerning the Sabbath at the Time of the End? Do you believe that it will mainly be the Seventh Day Sabbath Keepers who will be rescued and taken to heaven at Christ's return while nearly everyone else will be burnt with fire?

Kind regards
Trevor
Click to expand...
Do you believe Gods Word, that sin is the transgression of the law?
 
Greetings again reddogs,
reddogs said:
Do you believe Gods Word, that sin is the transgression of the law?
Click to expand...
1 John 3:4 (KJV): Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Yes. Relevance?

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again reddogs,
reddogs said:
Then to keep it is not a burden for a true follower of God.
Click to expand...
I consider that the Sabbath was a typical enactment that has been fulfilled in Christ as taught in Matthew 11:25-30 and Hebrews 3:7-4:10 and also to be fulfilled in the 7th 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
reddogs said:
If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing. Paul exhorts in Corinthians that Circumcision is nothing in comparison to the Ten Commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Since there are more than forty verses and up to ten verses at a time clearly stating that Circumcision of the flesh is a yoke of bondage and abolished, how many scriptures would you expect stating the Sabbath was abolished or changed to Sunday? Perhaps seventy or more?The fact is there is not even one verse that says, 'The Sabbath is abolished' or is now Sunday.

Acts 15:1-19 The Council at Jerusalem​

1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Ten Commandments are the only thing that God personally spoke and then personally etched His Law into stone tablets with His own finger. Yet there is not one clear scripture or commandment from Christ or even a direction from a apostle or as you can see from the Jerusalem Council to abolish the Sabbath anywhere in scripture, just a couple of erroneous assumptions. One of God's Commandments supposedly changes or is abolished and we do not have even one clear verse. Why not? The answer is simple. It was never abolished or changed to Sunday by the authority of God so no such scripture exists..
Click to expand...
In Matthew 24:19-21, Jesus seems to be prophesying about a future great tribulation. I believe he was predicting something that has no yet happened, but the relevant point here is that Jesus said "Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath."

It would seem that if the Sabbath were not still effect in the future then he wouldn't have told them to pray their flight didn't take place on the Sabbath. I believe this is evidence that the Sabbath is still in effect.
 
Greetings Runningman,
Runningman said:
In Matthew 24:19-21, Jesus seems to be prophesying about a future great tribulation. I believe he was predicting something that has no yet happened, but the relevant point here is that Jesus said "Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath."

It would seem that if the Sabbath were not still effect in the future then he wouldn't have told them to pray their flight didn't take place on the Sabbath. I believe this is evidence that the Sabbath is still in effect.
Click to expand...
This instruction was applicable to the Christian Jews in AD70 and has no relevance to the present era and no relevance to the erroneous concept of Gentile Christians keeping the Sabbath.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings Runningman,

This instruction was applicable to the Christian Jews in AD70 and has no relevance to the present era and no relevance to the erroneous concept of Gentile Christians keeping the Sabbath.

Kind regards
Trevor
Click to expand...
You seem to be suggesting full or partial preterism, but even though you may be correct, it presents a problem for Jesus’ words. The siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple is not the greatest tribulation ever. This is often why people are futurists about this Matt 24 passage.

What do you believe happened in 70AD that Jesus described as great tribulation “unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again?”
 
Greetings again Runningman,
Runningman said:
You seem to be suggesting full or partial preterism
Click to expand...
No, not at all. I believe in pre-millennialism.
Runningman said:
The siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple is not the greatest tribulation ever. This is often why people are futurists about this Matt 24 passage.
What do you believe happened in 70AD that Jesus described as great tribulation “unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again?”
Click to expand...
A lot of people consider Matthew 24 and fail to realise that Luke 21 is a parallel account of the Mount Olivet Prophecy and the detail about fleeing to the mountains is also in this passage:
Matthew 24:15–21 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 21:20–24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This "fleeing to the mountains" is definitely speaking about AD 70 because verse 24 states that after the overthrow of Jerusalem by the Romans that many of the Jews would perish, and others taken captive and that there would be a long period of time when Jerusalem would be trodden down of the Gentiles. This period of time has partially been completed when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem in AD 1967.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Runningman,

No, not at all. I believe in pre-millennialism.

A lot of people consider Matthew 24 and fail to realise that Luke 21 is a parallel account of the Mount Olivet Prophecy and the detail about fleeing to the mountains is also in this passage:
Matthew 24:15–21 (KJV): 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 21:20–24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This "fleeing to the mountains" is definitely speaking about AD 70 because verse 24 states that after the overthrow of Jerusalem by the Romans that many of the Jews would perish, and others taken captive and that there would be a long period of time when Jerusalem would be trodden down of the Gentiles. This period of time has partially been completed when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem in AD 1967.

Kind regards
Trevor
Click to expand...
Still a problem because that isn't great tribulation “unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again” hence why many people are futurists about it. This is in regards to a future event that hasn't yet happened. Therefore the Sabbath is still in effect.

Revelation 20
9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Zechariah 12
3On that day, when all the nations of the earth gather against her, I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who would heave it away will be severely injured.
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again reddogs,

I consider that the Sabbath was a typical enactment that has been fulfilled in Christ as taught in Matthew 11:25-30 and Hebrews 3:7-4:10 and also to be fulfilled in the 7th 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor
Click to expand...
But why do you suppose that modern Christians do not feel that way about the other 9 Commandments?

The vast majority of Christians today accept and embrace all 9 Commandments, setting aside the tenth, or technically the 4th Sabbath Commandment. They all agree with the 9 and consider them moral statutes yet they have all been taught that there is some stigma surrounding the 4th (Sabbath) Commandment.

They have been taught that it is some form of sin to obey the 10 Commandments, yet they all obey 9 of them on a daily basis and consider any Christian who breaks any of the accepted 9 to be a bad Christian. Does any of that make any sense?

Especially when we know 3 very important things to be an absolute fact and proven by Scripture. Those three facts are:

1. Jesus taught the 10 Commandments (all 10).
Matt. 23:1-3
Matt. 5:19-20
2. Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments (all 10).
John 15:10
3. Jesus' closest followers obeyed the 10 Commandments (all 10) after His death on the Cross.
Luke 23:54-56
Acts 21:24

How do we then justify the casting aside of the 4th Commandment today with so much Biblical evidence that it is intended for all Christians, even by Jesus Christ?
 
Runningman said:
In Matthew 24:19-21, Jesus seems to be prophesying about a future great tribulation. I believe he was predicting something that has no yet happened, but the relevant point here is that Jesus said "Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath."

It would seem that if the Sabbath were not still effect in the future then he wouldn't have told them to pray their flight didn't take place on the Sabbath. I believe this is evidence that the Sabbath is still in effect.
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We also know that Jesus taught, and obeyed, the 10 Commandments.

Why would He have taught, and modeled, a doctrine that was going to be abolished at the end of His very brief ministry?
 
reddogs said:
If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none.
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The law of Moses, and the ordinances for the Sabbath, have been abolished.

The Sabbath has not.

The Sabbath was initiated by God as a day for man to rest.

When the law of Moses was added then the specific ordinances as to HOW the Sabbath was kept to be kept was therefore added.


When the law of Moses was abolished, then the ordinances as to HOW the Sabbath was observed under the law were removed.


having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17





JLB
 
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