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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Who Are The Two Witnesses?
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
I you ask a more comprehensive question.
selcet the reference you want from this links comprehensivelist:-
Edward
2024 Supporter
I you ask a more comprehensive question.
selcet the reference you want from this links comprehensivelist:-
It's already a comprehensive question! You're getting ahead of me, Lol..
The two witnesses are the minimum number of witnesses required in a jewish criminal court.
Edward
2024 Supporter
That may be so, but that's not the question. I'm asking about these guys:
Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.../
Some say Enoch & Elijah, Some say Moses & Elijah. But that's not convincing to me. I don't believe it is them.
This is revelation, a book of word pictures, where John tries to discribe the indiscribable using imagary he is familiar with.
They could be people, they could be the church, they could be angels, or they could be imagary to convey an idea.
As far as I'm concerned Jesus is coming back, but we don't know when and there will always be a Christian to witness to Jesus.
Who is that person? You and me.
They could be people, they could be the church, they could be angels, or they could be imagary to convey an idea.
As far as I'm concerned Jesus is coming back, but we don't know when and there will always be a Christian to witness to Jesus.
Who is that person? You and me.
Enoch & Elijah is my guess , one reason is the way they departed their timeline in the Bible .
Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
And this verse about Elijah .
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Enoch & Elijah did not die yet and this verse .
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Edward
2024 Supporter
Yes, but this is old testament. In the NT, Jesus says,
Matthew 17:10-13
10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. 12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist..../
So he must've came real soon after Malachai said he will return. John the Baptiist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. I don't see any way around Jesus words, do you?
This is true also, but sometimes we see through a glass darkly. There's always more deeper aspects of it when we speak about God. And God Said, Am I not God? And can do as I wish with my own?... And that's a very good and well said exception perhaps! Plus this...
John 21
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.../
So there's that...
Edward
2024 Supporter
You're right on top of it, aren't you Brother?! And still ahead of me, Lol. I was just about to ask you, what would you say if I said one of the two witnesses is You and I can prove it. Pretty sure I can, Lol. But you got back first.
Wow we just made a big leap there! We went from Enoch & Elijah to Who Me & Edward!
Truth is always stranger than fiction. Do you guys think that I sound like I've been smoking crack?
In my opinion…
The two angels that accompanied the Lord when He visited Abraham and they ultimately were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
See Genesis 18 and 19. Notice their ability to appear as men.
Also we these are mentioned in Zechariah 4, (an interesting read).
So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.” Zechariah 4:14
Then we see them at the tomb where Jesus was buried and had risen, in which they WITNESSED His resurrection from the dead.
Finally we see them at the end of the age in Jerusalem, wielded the same power and authority they did in Sodom and Gomorrah.
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
So back in Revelation 11 the Lord tells John, that the two witnesses are the two Olive Trees and the two Lampstands. You with me?
So what does scripture say that Olive trees and Lampstands represent? I'm glad you asked!
Zechariah 4
11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip [c]into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”
13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”.../
The Angel says they are the anointed ones. Right?
Oh, now let's flip over to
Jeremiah 11 :16
16 The Lord called your name,
Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit.
With the noise of a great tumult
He has kindled fire on it,
And its branches are broken.../
(this is important later! ie broken branches on the olive tree)
Paul talks about olive trees in
Romans 11
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His.../
Paul's talking to us Gentiles here explains us gentiles are one of the two olive trees, and we get grafted into the original tree (The Jewish people!)
So there you have it, The gentiles are an olive tree & the Jewish people are the other olive tree...which are the two witnesses! So yeah, That makes me one, it makes you one, it makes all the Brothers and Sisters whether Jewish or Christian one of the two witnesses.
We have seen the Witnesses, and He is US! Not Elijah. Not Moses. You Brother. You Sister.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Right! So modern day Brothers & Sisters in the Lord (All one body!) centered in Jerusalem because endtimes & the tribuation period is all about the Jews and Israel, but the Kingdom of God is everywhere, His people are everywhere, and so theis supernatural anointing that is poured out upon His people in these days now will overshadow most of the great acts and signs in the old testament times.
But Paul is warning us to not only stand in faith but to continue in His goodness and Love. (Hey! this blows OSAS out of the water, Huh?!)
Romans 11
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.../
Boy it'd have to be some situation before I could ever even imagine calling down fire from heaven upon someone! The Spirit would have to say-Do it. That's a big gun to be packing though. A Sodom & Gomorrah gun, whoa.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Are you suggesting that those two specific Angels will wind up being the two witnesses? If that be so, then...the same two 'walking tall' Angels will be overcome by men and killed?! Those two Angels took out a section of the map, not just a city! I don't think so. I've even read about other (?) Angels who took out 187,000 soldiers in one night. Nah, serious doubt these two are the two witnesses.
Back to revelation 11
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire..../
Paul explains that the Gentiles are the olive tree and lampstands:
Romans 11
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”.../
We've all heard that we're grafted in and all that. We're gentiles and (if Israel had accepted God, us gentiles would have had no chance). That's why Jesus was necessary, to help us. And Israel!
We are (one of) the two witnesses. And in end times, He will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, but special anointings for His own.
Or so it seems to me
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Edward
2024 Supporter
I guess that decodes some of the symbolism in Revelation.
How's this for a speculation?
God's two Witnesses on earth is Israel & the gentile believers and they will prophecy 1260 days. (3 1/2 years!)
Somebody is going to take out the Dome of the Rock and destroy it. A turnkey event which is the beginning of the end.
What if they shot a plasma ball at it, some unknown (as yet) energy weapon. Israel would have to retaliate. And to retaliate to a big thing like that, with an unknown super weapon....what? They nuke Damascus?
And then everyone in the world scrambles to put their finger on their nuke buttons...Uh-Oh, we need a savior! Enter Anti Christ who negotiates a 7 year peace treaty and becomes the world's hero...
I think that's a plausible scenario.
How's this for a speculation?
God's two Witnesses on earth is Israel & the gentile believers and they will prophecy 1260 days. (3 1/2 years!)
Somebody is going to take out the Dome of the Rock and destroy it. A turnkey event which is the beginning of the end.
What if they shot a plasma ball at it, some unknown (as yet) energy weapon. Israel would have to retaliate. And to retaliate to a big thing like that, with an unknown super weapon....what? They nuke Damascus?
And then everyone in the world scrambles to put their finger on their nuke buttons...Uh-Oh, we need a savior! Enter Anti Christ who negotiates a 7 year peace treaty and becomes the world's hero...
I think that's a plausible scenario.
Ok.
I see these two witnesses as being vulnerable to being killed in their human form.
As angels no.
In human form, yes.
Jesus as the Angel of the Lord, No.
Jesus in human form, yes.
JLB
This thread does not need to die
Edward
I love the title.
I love Revelation 11 being left out of the title
I love the broadness of responses.
I absolutely can not do complete justice to all this, but I will try to help.
Two witnesses:
A. Creation
2. Darkness
1. Light
B. Creation
1. physical creation
2. Life forms
C. Out of eternity
1. Eternity
2. Time started
D. Mankind (fell) (two people witnesses)
2. Adam.
2. Eve
E. Length of life changed
1. Physical life shortened
2. Spiritual fall
F. Offspring two people witnesses
1. Able
2 Cain
G. Flood
1. Most of humanity
2. 8 souls saved
H. Tower of Babel
1. Remaining good separated from
crowd influence
2. Spread of evil pursuits slowed
I. Joseph in Egypt
2. Cell mate returned to office
J. Deliverance from Egypt
1. Moses
2. Arron
More…….
There were almost always at least two witnesses for good.
John the Baptist and Isaiah
Jesus and John the Baptist
More hopefully to come.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Edward
I love the title.
I love Revelation 11 being left out of the title
I love the broadness of responses.
I absolutely can not do complete justice to all this, but I will try to help.
Two witnesses:
A. Creation
2. Darkness
1. Light
B. Creation
1. physical creation
2. Life forms
C. Out of eternity
1. Eternity
2. Time started
D. Mankind (fell) (two people witnesses)
2. Adam.
2. Eve
E. Length of life changed
1. Physical life shortened
2. Spiritual fall
F. Offspring two people witnesses
1. Able
2 Cain
G. Flood
1. Most of humanity
2. 8 souls saved
H. Tower of Babel
1. Remaining good separated from
crowd influence
2. Spread of evil pursuits slowed
I. Joseph in Egypt
2. Cell mate returned to office
J. Deliverance from Egypt
1. Moses
2. Arron
More…….
There were almost always at least two witnesses for good.
John the Baptist and Isaiah
Jesus and John the Baptist
More hopefully to come.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Moving this to the End Times forum for a better fit.
Revelation 11
Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.
God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.
Zechariah 4 speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.
John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.
The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.
The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.
Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.
God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.
Zechariah 4 speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.
John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.
The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.
The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.