"You ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?
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Who can answer this?
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
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Morning Brother Allen. Some atheists even believe we should morally do good, though they use it in a manner attempting to prove there is good in all men without God. We would have to ask if what they do is good in God’s eyes.
2 Cor 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest,
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
In Christ Jesus.
2 Cor 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest,
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
In Christ Jesus.
Thank you Eugene, you measure this idea with the Word of God.
What you've done is give a descriptive statement that we know to be true to measure against a prescriptive statement.
Now how about this?
"A person should believe in Jesus Christ so that they can be saved".
If a person doesn't believe in the Bible, how can we measure this idea to show the truth?
What you've done is give a descriptive statement that we know to be true to measure against a prescriptive statement.
Now how about this?
"A person should believe in Jesus Christ so that they can be saved".
If a person doesn't believe in the Bible, how can we measure this idea to show the truth?
Claudya
Member
You need an operationalisation of what "being good" means. That means you must define precisely what type of behaviour or thinking is "good", in a way that is accessible to some sort of observation. Often the operational definition already includes how to observe it.
Then you, well, observe, and count how many times you did something good and how many times you did something un-good. Or you have someone else observe you.
Since in many situations the same behaviour can be good or bad only depending on the motivation behind the behaviour and your moivation is hidden from an outside observer it's probably hard to measure goodness in an empirical way.
One way of doing this is to simply say, "If you are good rather than cruel then people will like you".
We know from what we see and what we hear that this is true.
Thus, "We ought to be good" becomes a truth.
sourberry
Member
In my opinion, one's job would be to plant and to water, not to measure.
Is this right? Why are we concerned so much about measureing then?
Claudya
Member
Well that's true of course.
Because doing empircal research on human behaviour is fun!
God gives us a measure of faith.
There must be something to it.
Claudya
Member
That's an operational definition that includes another hypothesis (if we are good then people will like us) which we'd have to put on a solid foundation (intuitively I doubt the hypothesis is correct; in our time many people are rather attracted to shallow, shiny and evil things and ridicule the good) and which requires an operational definition itself (how do we measure if somebody like somebody? E.g. ask them?)
To me that implies something to be sought rather than authoritative. It is in actuality said that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ you will be saved; not can be saved and that is prescriptive.
What we are doing here is placing value judgements on things.
We can back up "you ought to be good" with Scripture.
So the judgements we make that have value are based on Scripture.
This we know to be true.
We can back up "you ought to be good" with Scripture.
So the judgements we make that have value are based on Scripture.
This we know to be true.
sourberry
Member
To measure ourselves, not others, right?
Regarding others, we plant and water, I presume?
So are you saying "Jesus saves" cannot be described as truth?
Sourberry, I prescribe to you that "you ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How do I measure it?
I back it up with the Word of God.
This is what we are talking about.
I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding the question. Of course I believe we are saved by belief in Jesus. I might add by edit here that it is our Father that gave His Son, 2 Tim 1:9 says it is God Who hath saved us, and Eph 2:8 says that our salvation is the gift of God. Are we speaking semantics here as to how God saves us?
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sourberry
Member
Depends on who is saying "Jesus saves", as I think.
"Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
sourberry
Member
Perhaps.
When you say "Word of God" do you mean written word or unwritten?
"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Lol, I think I am misunderstanding your post #10, therefore you are misunderstanding me.
sourberry
Member
Thank you, Eugene.
I understand Paul's saying as "You are saved if you are what you ought to be".
Today, Paul's saying is more understood as "We are saved because we are what we ought to be".
However, regarding "we are what we ought to be" Jesus says: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
I always refer to the Word of God as the Bible.