Who has authority to decide scripture?

[Bible]

The tradition of men under king James (KJV bible) decide on what authority what is and what is not scripture?

who has authority from Christ to decide what is and what is not scripture?

what was scripture before the KJV?

why is the faith story of Susana in dan 13 not scripture in the 66 books bible?

luther said James Jude and revelation are not scripture, so who has apostolic authority from Christ to decide???

chapters and verses are also not scripture but added later

 

[hawkman]

Maybe this link would be a start in trying to answer your questions .

The Canon of Scripture

 

[Christ_empowered]

This is one major problem in Protestant denominations. The Protestant movement began by breaking away from the Catholic Church. Ok….done. Thing about that is….

There’s still a Catholic Church with tons of followers….


And literally thousands of other Christian groups. Ugh.

 

[Bible]

This is one major problem in Protestant denominations. The Protestant movement began by breaking away from the Catholic Church. Ok….done. Thing about that is….

There’s still a Catholic Church with tons of followers….


And literally thousands of other Christian groups. Ugh.

Not according to scripture
There is only one church Jn 20;16 founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18

 

[Truthfrees]

Not according to scripture
There is only one church Jn 20;16 founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18

in the original greek it reads much more clearer
peter is called petros - little rock
petra is a huge mountain size rock - guess who is bigger than peter and called the big mountain size rock?
Matthew 16:18 reads you are little rock and on this huge mountain size rock I will build my church
all believers are little rocks/living stones - and God is the huge mountain size rock

Matthew 16:18 Parallel: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

biblehub.com

 

[Truthfrees]

to find out what Matthew 16:18 was about go to Matthew 16:16-17

 

[Bible]

Oh no games
It is Peter’s person


How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

How is this possible?

also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23

 

[Truthfrees]

Oh no games
It is Peter’s person
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
How is this possible?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23

God always has and always will have jurisdictional authority

if He can't be the head over all His people then He would not be God

that is also why man is too little to take God's place of authority over His people - everyone is under ONE God - one faith - one Spirit - etc

 

[Truthfrees]

a link to greek mountain size petra (God) vs small rock petros (believers)

to prove that all believers including peter are little rocks and God alone is the huge mountain size rock see below

Strong's Greek: 4073. πέτρα (petra) -- a (large mass of) rock

biblehub.com

 

[Truthfrees]

this is also why scripture is the plumb line for everything

all wrong doctrines come from people misunderstanding what God really said - original ancient bible languages are much better than any translation or interpretation - if possible go back to the original language to see if the translators did a good or poor job

bible hub lets anyone see the original language - it's slow reading but it will clear up misunderstandings really fast

 

[Fastfredy0]

Maybe this link would be a start in trying to answer your questions .

The Canon of Scripture

I agree, not that I get a vote.

To quote the article referred to by Hawkman:
The simple answer is that God decided which books should be in the canon. He was the final determiner. J. 1. Packer writes:

The church no more gave us the New Testament canon than Sir Isaac Newton gave us the force of gravity. God gave us gravity, by his work of creation, and similarly he gave us the New Testament canon, by inspiring the individual books that make it up (J. 1. Packer, God Speaks To Man, p. 81).

To be fair, there are two other opinions I am aware of:
1) The pope and church determine the canon for they have been so appointed by God. (Tradition)
2) Evidentiary model

The collection of books that met certain tests and thus were considered authoritative, and are our rule of life. A criteria some theologians propose is:

• Was the book written by a prophet of God, an apostle or someone closely related to an apostle?
• Was the writer authenticated by miracles to confirm his message?
• Does the book tell the truth about God, with no falsehood or contradiction?
• Does the book evince a divine capacity to transform lives?
• Was the book accepted as God's Word by the people to whom it was first delivered?

But the early church did not determine canon this way. They had writings that were shared amongst themselves. God supernaturally guided Christians towards the books that would eventually be canonized in the 4th century.

Note: Scholarship has not been able to establish a set of criteria for canonicity which does not at the same time threaten to undermine the New Testament canon as it has come down to us.
The criterion of apostolicity does not account for Mark, Luke-Acts, Hebrews
The criterion of antiquity is really a variation on apostolicity and fails to explain why Paul’s “previous” letter (1 Cor. 5:9) which was earlier than Hebrews was not included while Hebrews was included.
The criterion of inspiration, while certainly necessary to canonicity, cannot explain why Paul’s letter to the Laodiceans (Col 4:16), also apostolic and also inspired, was not included.
The criterion of lection cannot explain why documents such as the Shepherd of Hermas and the Didache, which were used and occasionally read in public worship, were finally rejected, while there is little to no evidence that such works as 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude were so used.
Robert Reymond A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith

Aside: The Mormons and Moslems would disagree

 

[Truthfrees]

the apocrypha were all added to the OT

jews are commanded to not add or subtract from God's word

they never had any book of the apocrypha - i would trust that simple fact

 

[hawkman]

The simple answer is that God decided which books should be in the canon.

What is funny is I did not go read the info at my link but I was thinking the whole time the very thing you posted .

J. I. Packer was a great writer . 10 Things You Should Know about J. I. Packer

 

[Bible]

God always has and always will have jurisdictional authority

if He can't be the head over all His people then He would not be God

that is also why man is too little to take God's place of authority over His people - everyone is under ONE God - one faith - one Spirit - etc

He ascended to heaven now what?
No king ever administers his own kingdom
Christ appointed peter and the apostles
Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn20:21-23 eph 2:20 jn 21:17

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18
matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Isa 22:21-22
eph 2:20

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by the apostles of Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments.

In Christ Matt 28-18-20 I am with you, Jn 15:5 in His grace and truth by the power of the Holy Spirit! Jn 1:16-17


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

The obedience of faith!

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

Taught the one true faith revealed by Christ to His apostles! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

We are not commanded to read and make doctrine for ourselves but obey those who God puts in authority to teach the Christian Faith!

 

[JLB]

The tradition of men under king James (KJV bible) decide on what authority what is and what is not scripture?

who has authority from Christ to decide what is and what is not scripture?

what was scripture before the KJV?

why is the faith story of Susana in dan 13 not scripture in the 66 books bible?

luther said James Jude and revelation are not scripture, so who has apostolic authority from Christ to decide???

chapters and verses are also not scripture but added later

Where in scripture does it say Daniel 13 is scripture?

 

[WIP]

This discussion was obviously not intended to just get Christian answers but rather debate those answers. Therefore, I have moved it to the Theology forum.

 

[Bible]

Where in scripture does it say Daniel 13 is scripture?

Matt 16:18 18:18 bound on earth

 

[jaybo]

this is also why scripture is the plumb line for everything

all wrong doctrines come from people misunderstanding what God really said - original ancient bible languages are much better than any translation or interpretation - if possible go back to the original language to see if the translators did a good or poor job

bible hub lets anyone see the original language - it's slow reading but it will clear up misunderstandings really fast

Translating the earliest texts into English (or any other modern language) is a difficult art/science. It is a very common mistake to go back to the original language to see if the translators did a good or poor job, since few people are qualified to do that. There are serious differences in vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. from the ancient languages (plural) and the languages that we employ today. And that doesn't even begin to address the vast cultural differences that hinder adequate understanding of the meaning.

I don't agree that looking at the original languages, unless you're a trained expert, will clear up misunderstandings really fast.

 

[WIP]

Translating the earliest texts into English (or any other modern language) is a difficult art/science. It is a very common mistake to go back to the original language to see if the translators did a good or poor job, since few people are qualified to do that. There are serious differences in vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. from the ancient languages (plural) and the languages that we employ today. And that doesn't even begin to address the vast cultural differences that hinder adequate understanding of the meaning.

I don't agree that looking at the original languages, unless you're a trained expert, will clear up misunderstandings really fast.

The updated translations are also not completed by any one individual but many. In some cases there were over 100 scholars, theologians, and learned individuals involved as well as from numerous backgrounds and denominations and they had to come to a consensus with regard to the final draft.

 

[Bible]

The updated translations are also not completed by any one individual but many. In some cases there were over 100 scholars, theologians, and learned individuals involved as well as from numerous backgrounds and denominations and they had to come to a consensus with regard to the final draft.

There are no denominations in scripture
Only one true church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20

Still the tradition of men who have no authority from Christ to delete whole books and some chapters from scripture