Who Is The Multitude In Revelation 7?

[wavy]

As opposed to the 144,000, I mean?

Many interpret this passage to mean that a remnant of 144,000 "Jews" will be saved finally and the multitude are "gentiles" as opposed to "Jews".

The text however, makes no mention of any such difference. The 144,000 are chosen Israelites from each tribe that are sealed with the true Name of YHWH (Revelation 14:1). It is my personal belief that they are preserved to survive during the Great Tribulation to proclaim Yahweh's Name and plan, leading in the restoration of Israel.

But who is the multitude? Gentile pagans as opposed to "Jews"? No. They are people from all nations (where Israel had been scattered because of Torah disobedience). This multitude is all believers from all nations who are considered Israel (that is Ephraim Israel and his companions; see Ezekiel 37:16-18).

This multitude is none other than a redeemed nation, the same nation promised to Abraham.

Genesis 12:1 Now YHWH had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This great nation is the blessed nation of Israel. This was Yahweh's physical multiplicity plan from the beginning with Adam. He told both him and Noah to be fruitful and multiply. Why? So his blessed nation of chosen people (the elect) could be birthed. He renews this with Abraham.

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Abraham's seed cannot be numbered (*hint*hint* Revelation 7:9). This promise was then renewed in Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5). Check what Isaac, operating under the Spirit of Yahweh says to Jacob:

Genesis 28:3 And El Shaddai bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

The word for "multitude" here is kahal, the Hebrew equivalent for ekklesia meaning congregation. This is the destiny of Jacob's seed: to become a congregation (the same one belonging to Messiah) of peoples/nations.

Genesis 32:12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

Here Jacob (who was renamed Israel) reminds Yahweh of his promise. Here is a direct reference to what Revelation 7:9 was talking about. Israel's, seed/children are the same multitude that cannot be numbered in Revelation 7:9. They are only a remnant, but are still considered Israel and are still great in number.

Genesis 35:11 And Elohim said unto him, I am El Shaddai: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

A nation (Israel) and a company (qahal, or "assemblage/congregation") of nations will come from Jacob, as Yahweh tells him here. Also kings will come from him. We find this in Revelation too. The kings of the earth of Jacob's seed bring their glory and honor into the New Yahrushalayhim (Revelation 21:24). This same congregation of nations and kings here all make one reunited nation of Israel in the new heavens and new earth.

How can so many Israelites fill the globe this way? Isn't most of Israel in the state of Israel and aren't they called "Jews"? Wasn't 1948 fulfillment of prophecy by giving the land back to all Israel?

Incorrect. What happened in 1948 was only the return of Judah (who is only ONE house of the two houses of Israel) mentioned in Zechariah 12:7. The seed of Ephraim, later collected into the ten tribes became and is becoming the fulness of the nations/gentiles (Genesis 48:19). Paul repeats this to the Roman congregtion (who were Israelites, btw) in Romans 11:25. This is how Messiah was able to get his gospel of liberty to the Israelite captives and exiles scattered in all nations. This is the wisdom of Yahweh spoken about by Paul in Romans 11:33.

If Ephraim Israel had not become the fullness of the nations/gentiles, along with exiles from Judah according to Isaiah 11:12, then the gospel would not and could not be preached to the entire world. That was the whole reason for his coming, to regather the exiles of Israel (Isaiah 11:11-13; Isaiah 49:6; Matthew 15:24) and set up an "ensign" for the nations and become a beacon/light to them for all to join Israel.

If none of this is true, then Messiah is really not the Messiah. He came and did things completely contrary to the way described in the scripture if this is not true. He continued his ministry of the restoration of Israel through his apostles in Acts 1:6-8 and through Paul (Acts 9:15; Acts 28:20)

However, the full return of all Israel to the land with both houses reunited will occur at his return. All Israel, with Judah finally coming to the realization of atonement from Messiah, and Ephraim Israel finally coming to Torah (since much of them are Christians who don't believe in keeping it) will dwell together in unity. However, Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:7), or the Great Tribulation will occur at this time. At leasts I believe. Here Israel will go through the "birth pangs" of Messiah, waiting for his return to deliver us while we are in "travail".

Only Israel triumphs at the end. Israel literally means "overcome/prevail with El/God" (symbolized by Jacob's wrestling with the Angel, who was El, in Genesis 32 and the renaming he received at that time from "Jacob" to "Israel" because he won).

So, if you do not consider yourself a part of Israel, I don't know what to tell you. I will refer you to Isaiah 56:1-8 and Isaiah 44:5 for a rebuke from Yahweh himself about those who want to be considered Torah-less "gentiles" who are separate from Israel. All believers need to realize their place in Israel so they can be prepared for the coming of Yahshua for his bride. No separate entity "churches". Only Israel prevails as Yahweh's people. This is us from all nations and tongues in Revelation 7:9, having overcome the world and being made kings and priests.

Pause and Meditate.

 

[Darrell dunn]

There are a couple of words here that I want to point to.

First they came out of the great tribulation.Rev.7;14 Being killed their for testimony,Rev.6;11 that should be KILLED as they were.

Then they will serve the throne of God day and night Rev.7;15

Then they will have their tears wiped away.

They will not be the kings and phrists.

There will be two groups in Gods kingdom.

Dan.7;10 and Rev.20:4 mention them.

 

[wavy]

There are a couple of words here that I want to point to.

Alright.

First they came out of the great tribulation.Rev.7;14 Being killed their for testimony,Rev.6;11 that should be KILLED as they were.

Right.

Then they will serve the throne of God day and night Rev.7;15

Ok...

Then they will have their tears wiped away.

Indeed

They will not be the kings and phrists.

Please read Revelation 5:9-10.

There will be two groups in Gods kingdom.

Dan.7;10 and Rev.20:4 mention them.

Wrong, and nothing in those scriptures indicate such..

 

[Darrell dunn]

They will not be the kings and phrists.

Please read Revelation 5:9-10.

There will be two groups in Gods kingdom.

Dan.7;10 and Rev.20:4 mention them.

Wrong, and nothing in those scriptures indicate such..[/quote][/quote

________________________

First Rev 5;9 has happened before , Rev.7;9, Rev.7:1 After these things.
and what are the palms in their hands?

Dan. 7 :10 1,000 1,000s MINISTERED UNTO HIM

And 10,000 x 10,000 stood before him, 2 groups

Rev.20:4 And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them,and judgement was given unto them.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus.

2 groups.

Just in case you have trouble with the ones setting on the thrones.

read Dan.7:22 and Rev.3:21

 

[wavy]

First Rev 5;9 has happened before , Rev.7;9, Rev.7:1 After these things.
and what are the palms in their hands?

I don't know what the palms in their hands are (I have an idea, though). And because something happened before, doesn't mean it isn;t speaking of the same thing. The 144,000 are mentioned again in Revelation 14.


Dan. 7 :10 1,000 1,000s MINISTERED UNTO HIM

And 10,000 x 10,000 stood before him, 2 groups

Rev.20:4 And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them,and judgement was given unto them.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus.

2 groups.

No, the distinction is made in Daniel between those ministering to him and those standing before him (th edifference is office, not type of a group). One group could possibly be angels for that matter.

Anyway, as far as Revelation 20:4, the distinction is made for the fact that the second group had been slain. Imo, your argument is too weak, and is not backed by very much scripture. This seems to be more speculative. No offense.

Also, what are these two groups that you believe are mentioned in scripture?

 

[Darrell dunn]

First Jesus said that we would be held responsible for every idle word.

So do you think that God would use idle words.

Paul said 1Cor9:24 kNOW YE NOT THAT THEY WHICH RUN IN A RACE RUN ALL, BUT ONE RECEIVETH THE PRIZE? So run, that you may obtain.

Jesus said also the Father would select who set on his right and left.
Also them that would be first will be last, and the last first.

If you don't serve God here , you will there.

You can call them groups or classes or what ever, but all will not be kings or priest.

And those that miss the rapture and are killed later will not set on thrones.

And the 144,000 are being taken off the earth in ch 14, at the end of their mission. To tell the world of Jesus the Lord.

 

[wavy]

You can call them groups or classes or what ever, but all will not be kings or priest.

Oh, well, I agree. I thought you were getting off into something else. If this is all you meant, then I believe it, I guess. But it is not something I have studied.

And those that miss the rapture and are killed later will not set on thrones.

Well, I see no evidence for a rapture.

And the 144,000 are being taken off the earth in ch 14, at the end of their mission. To tell the world of Jesus the Lord.

I don't see evidence for this either.

 

[Darrell dunn]

wavy

God did not put a single word in that didn't mean something.
Since His son is the Word and this is the Word.

1Th.4:16-17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.

The rapture.

The 144,000 Rev.14:1 stood on the mount Sion, (earth)

14:3 and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, (heaven)

So they were taken between v1 and v3 from earth to heaven.

 

[John the Baptist]

Who Is The Multitude In Revelation 7?


John here:
These ones in Revelation 12:17 are identified. These are the ones with the Virgin doctrines of Matthew 25 who follow Christ out! Matthew 25:6. The door closed for this Virgin Fold first. verse 10-11. See also 1 Peter 4:17 in the K.J. This was their 'Midnight Cry' or 'shaking' or falling away before Christ comes. See 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

Verse 4 takes on (considers) the many others that are professed Christians. See Revelation 17:1-5. But not only these ones,
for even inside the fallen Virgin true fold that are shaken first, there were & are ignorant ones that are some of Christ's sheep, living up to the knowledge the best as they knew. See John 10:16 for the other folds.

Now for the worlds population. If one can understand Romans 2:14-15? We see that there are a great number of people who had not been given the Truth as we have had the opportunity to know it. They too will be saved and when these ones awake, they will really see Jesus for the first time as we had know Him. God holds us responsible for what only we know & live by.

OK: One final 'Latter Rain' (see Acts 3:19) T.V. court case seen by the total universe, (see 1 Peter 1:12) and with a U.N. setting. Matthew 10:23.
All will be brought into contact with the last testing for the worlds professed believers in this court case. So that all can have opportunity to know all of the Truth & make a final 666 free decision of life or eternal death!

From this setting the final decision will be made, and the ones who will make the right choice? These are of the Great Multitude that you ask about. Perhaps they will include the ones saved from creation on? Yet, they are the ones that are brought forth as genuine Christians.

But, yes, again, these were not the 144000. The 144000 are the ones that had this Loud Cry of Revelation 14:6-10 & gave it faithfully, those who had not been anything other than True Virgins in doctrine & followers of Christ. See Revelation 3:10.