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Who were the four beasts and four and twenty elders?

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I do not understand your question Eugene?

There must have been a number of believers living in Jerusalem .. I dont divide the church of His Body into segments .. He has always had a church, a body of believers, a remnant.

Totally dont get the question?
 
There must have been a number of believers living in Jerusalem ..
Would you agree that to commit fornication Babylon need be married? Who was she that sat upon many waters married to? If she is said to be God’s people, do you think we are talking of Israel?

I would also think that Revelation is generally speaking of the church, its judgment, and deliverance from tribulation and wrath to come upon all the world. John was being shown things that were, are, and that to come from the perspective of the Lord’s Day.

I don't divide the church of His Body into segments .. He has always had a church, a body of believers, a remnant.
Even though John didn't divide the church into segments, he reported it as so given what he was shown. Think about it; he saw the different proximity's of saints round bout, and in the midst of the throne with Christ, others before the throne out of great tribulation, and even others following Christ wheresoever He went that sang a song only they could learn.[/quote]
 
Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

We are not going to see the these passages the same way.... and i will have to leave it at that on the boards...

Thank you for taking the time to re-ask the question. :)
 
We are not going to see the these passages the same way....
I reckon I have God to thank for that. :) I will say you quoted Jer 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." Do you really think that Babylon is just a city versus a religious system that have killed the saints? Yeah My people, get out of that city lest you suffer its judgments with her. Does that city has a bad smog problem and God is going to clean it up as it were? :poke
 
Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

We are not going to see the these passages the same way.... and i will have to leave it at that on the boards...

Thank you for taking the time to re-ask the question. :)


If you keep reading in Jeremiah 3 -

16 Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days," says the Lord, "that they will say no more, 'The ark of the covenant of the Lord.' It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore. 17 At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the Lord, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts. Jeremiah 3:16-17


JLB
 
I see this as the New Jerusalem... not a city of brick and mortar but like this one..
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
 
I see this as the New Jerusalem... not a city of brick and mortar but like this one..
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

When Jesus returns to the earth, He will descend to the City of Jerusalem, here on Earth.

There will be a physical City of Jerusalem, not to be confused with the spiritual city that is a symbol of the bride.

Just because there is a spiritual Jerusalem does not negate the natural city of Jerusalem.

One is a reference to the Mother of us all, one is a reference to the bride, one is a natural city in the land of Israel, here on earth.

The nations of the earth will go to a natural city called Jerusalem, where the throne of the Lord will be.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 24:31-32

and again -

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:4-5

and again

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17

JLB
 
We are both welcome to our views... Being different does not mean any one is wrong... :)


At some point we have to decide that some doctrines are not true.

That is why we have the scriptures, so that we can be led into all truth.

There are many such doctrines that This Forum will not allow to be discussed.

Jerusalem is not Babylon. All prophecy is not in the past.

The resurrection of the dead has not taken place.

Jesus did not come back in 70 AD.

The scriptures teach that there will be a powerful leader who will go to a Temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God and led many into deception because they did not love the truth.

Instead of denying this truth, why are we not warning people of this?

Why don't we at least acknowledge that there are plans to build another temple, rather than explaining this key element of bible prophecy away.

Why are we so desperately trying to hide this fact and explain it away?


JLB
 
At some point we have to decide that some doctrines are not true.

That is why we have the scriptures, so that we can be led into all truth.

There are many such doctrines that This Forum will not allow to be discussed.

Jerusalem is not Babylon. All prophecy is not in the past.

The resurrection of the dead has not taken place.

Jesus did not come back in 70 AD.

The scriptures teach that there will be a powerful leader who will go to a Temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God and led many into deception because they did not love the truth.

Instead of denying this truth, why are we not warning people of this?

Why don't we at least acknowledge that there are plans to build another temple, rather than explaining this key element of bible prophecy away.

Why are we so desperately trying to hide this fact and explain it away?


JLB
Do you really believe knowing or not knowing the truth of an end time will change how we will follow Christ? Will a temple built or not built have effect on any member of the body of Christ? If there are those of the church entering a future time of tribulation are you planning to be a part of them, and what evasive action do you recommend? Thanks.
 
Do you really believe knowing or not knowing the truth of an end time will change how we will follow Christ? Will a temple built or not built have effect on any member of the body of Christ? If there are those of the church entering a future time of tribulation are you planning to be a part of them, and what evasive action do you recommend? Thanks.

Paul seems to have the answer for you -

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:15-19

also Paul warns us that those who spread heresies will not be welcome in the kingdom of God -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

James also warns us -

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19


Spreading Heresy, and overthrowing peoples faith with doctrines that claim the resurrection is past, are very serious matters, as the scriptures teach us.

Paul likened this doctrine that teaches the resurrection is past, as a cancer that spreads. Those who spread this cancer are working to overthrow the faith of some.


These are the words of the scriptures, not mine.

There is a flood of deception being spread through the Church in these last days, with people calling Homosexuality good, and calling those who stand against it as evil.

Likewise there are many such heresies and false doctrines spreading as well.


Here is what Jesus said, about those in the generation that witness His return -

I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8


JLB
 
You cou
Paul seems to have the answer for you -

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:15-19

also Paul warns us that those who spread heresies will not be welcome in the kingdom of God -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

James also warns us -

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19


Spreading Heresy, and overthrowing peoples faith with doctrines that claim the resurrection is past, are very serious matters, as the scriptures teach us.

Paul likened this doctrine that teaches the resurrection is past, as a cancer that spreads. Those who spread this cancer are working to overthrow the faith of some.


These are the words of the scriptures, not mine.

There is a flood of deception being spread through the Church in these last days, with people calling Homosexuality good, and calling those who stand against it as evil.

Likewise there are many such heresies and false doctrines spreading as well.


Here is what Jesus said, about those in the generation that witness His return -

I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8


JLB
You couldn't answer my question? I'll attempt to word it differently. What would you change if you had the exact date our Lord was to come for you? In other words would you quit sinning more than you do now and why?

I realize we react to circumstance and no doubt I too would examine my walk in Christ, but wait; it is in Him we are judged. My reward only is subject to works of righteousness as I understand it. As to your suggestion of spreading heresies, are you doing that? Oh my, oh the humanity, and no I'm not accusing you of having to suffer the judgment in which you judge others. :poke
 
You cou

You couldn't answer my question? I'll attempt to word it differently. What would you change if you had the exact date our Lord was to come for you? In other words would you quit sinning more than you do now and why?

I realize we react to circumstance and no doubt I too would examine my walk in Christ, but wait; it is in Him we are judged. My reward only is subject to works of righteousness as I understand it. As to your suggestion of spreading heresies, are you doing that? Oh my, oh the humanity, and no I'm not accusing you of having to suffer the judgment in which you judge others. :poke

I answered you using the words of the scriptures.

Jesus told us to watch and pray that we are worthy to escape these things.

Being led by the Spirit, building yourself up on your most holy faith, developing ears to hear are for all generations that strive to be obedient , especially those living in the last days.

JLB
 
JLB you speak more of past resurrection then any one else here....
Personally;
the resurrection is to come
there is still prophesy to come to pass

A question JLB
What does the Bible teach us the Kingdom of God is?
 
I answered you using the words of the scriptures.

Jesus told us to watch and pray that we are worthy to escape these things.

Being led by the Spirit, building yourself up on your most holy faith, developing ears to hear are for all generations that strive to be obedient , especially those living in the last days.

JLB
Your answer is much like the one given me concerning your thoughts of the four beasts, and you suggested I just read about them if I remember it correctly; I'm too tired after cleaning snow to worry about the exact wording. Thanks anyhow.

I reckon I'll ask some others then. If any of the rest of you knew you were wrong on end times thinking, would you change your love of the Lord, or the manner you walked with Him? I personally attempt to live each day as if it is my last; to me that is occupying or to keep on keeping on. I've not allowed my understanding of end times to affect my love of others or Him. My faith of security in Christ remains despite of changes in the world, theories of impending disaster, and all the different theologies presented. Hopefully I don't purposely present error, and I don't think the majority of our brethren here do either. Our salvation is based on receiving our Lord as the only means of entering the eternity available to believers, and If I am wrong in anything at this moment, God will have me come to a fuller knowledge of my Lord and Savior Jesus.

Blessings to all in Jesus' name.
 
JLB you speak more of past resurrection then any one else here....
Personally;
the resurrection is to come
there is still prophesy to come to pass

A question JLB
What does the Bible teach us the Kingdom of God is?

First it is righteousness.
Then with righteousness there us
peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Notice that righteousness is mentioned first.

Question for Reba -

How are we taught what is righteous and what is not?

JLB
 
Your answer is much like the one given me concerning your thoughts of the four beasts, and you suggested I just read about them if I remember it correctly; I'm too tired after cleaning snow to worry about the exact wording. Thanks anyhow.

I reckon I'll ask some others then. If any of the rest of you knew you were wrong on end times thinking, would you change your love of the Lord, or the manner you walked with Him? I personally attempt to live each day as if it is my last; to me that is occupying or to keep on keeping on. I've not allowed my understanding of end times to affect my love of others or Him. My faith of security in Christ remains despite of changes in the world, theories of impending disaster, and all the different theologies presented. Hopefully I don't purposely present error, and I don't think the majority of our brethren here do either. Our salvation is based on receiving our Lord as the only means of entering the eternity available to believers, and If I am wrong in anything at this moment, God will have me come to a fuller knowledge of my Lord and Savior Jesus.

Blessings to all in Jesus' name.

Thank you for that post.

That's a great attitude.

JLB
 
First it is righteousness.
Then with righteousness there us
peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Notice that righteousness is mentioned first.

Question for Reba -

How are we taught what is righteous and what is not?

JLB
How subtly you add to the Scripture....

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Answer: We are taught by reading the Word and talking to God
 
Eugene asks;
I reckon I'll ask some others then. If any of the rest of you knew you were wrong on end times thinking, would you change your love of the Lord, or the manner you walked with Him?
I would ask forgiveness and love Him more for the correction.
 
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