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Why aren't Christians defeating the pornographers?

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According to a report by Dame Rachel de Souza (the UK's Children's Commissioner), 10% of 9 year olds have seen pornography. She also says there is evidence that shows a link between young people watching porn and incidents of child on child sexual abuse. In her words: "I am categorically clear: no child should be able to access or watch pornography." A study by Bernardo's found that more than half of child sexual abuse cases in the UK are perpetrated by children (2022 - up from a third in 2013).

Over a dozen states in the US have declared porn a public health crises.

According to Fight the New Drug:
Decades of studies from respected institutions have demonstrated significant impacts of porn consumption for individuals, relationships, and society. 73% of teens have seen porn. At least 1 in 3 porn videos show sexual violence of aggression. 53% of boys and 39% of girls believe pornography is a realistic depiction of sex. Porn consumers tend to be less satisfied in relationships, less committed, and more permissive of cheating. There is virtually no way to guarantee that pornographic content is consensual. Exploitation and trafficking are common experiences in the porn industry.

Why has there not been a concerted push back by Christians (who number some 2.38 billion people according to PEW research) against the pornographic industry? NCOSE (National Centre on Sexual Exploitation) began as a Christian movement and have had some limited success.

At the sermon on the mount Jesus said:
“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

Ellicott's commentary on this use of 'salt of the earth' states:
The words are spoken to the disciples in their ideal character, as the germ of a new Israel, called to a prophetic work, preserving the earth from moral putrescence and decay. The general reference to this antiseptic action of salt is enough to give an adequate meaning to the words...

At the very least, adults are failing to protect children from seeing this material - surely a damning indictment? We are failing because we could have made sure children were protected from seeing it BEFORE we allowed porn to be as accessible as it is. Anyone accessing porn (whether they are Christian or not) is fuelling the industry and may end up actually watching someone being raped.

Porn is damaging the whole of society - not just our children.

I will add that I am not pointing the finger at everyone but myself - on the contrary, I point at all of us.
 
I have not claimed he does not exist.



By saying I try to live as if God exists I am not for one moment suggesting that one can live a perfect life. Far from it in fact. We know that Judaism at the time of Jesus and to this day thinks as Paul described in Romans 10 (thought that they could attain their own righteousness).
I have good news for you !
We can live perfect lives, since the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
 
I have seen these kind of arguments before and, for me, they are vague and unsatisfying.

..and even if we did prove the existence of a Creator, we still wouldn't know if the Bible was such a creator's word to mankind.
So what is your intellectually satisfying argument or case for why there is something, rather than nothing?

It is only because of the bible that we know anything about God. It is God's revelation of himself to us.
If it is false then we know nothing about God.
 
I don't have one. Darwinism seems plausible but it has issues as well.



I truly hope you are right.
As I understand it, Jesus is said to have defeated Satan. Indeed, the symbolism of it (ie Jesus's resurrection) is perhaps the most powerful moment in history (if true

It is not a question of ' hope ', but of facing facts.
Try the coldcasechristianity site, or read Lee Strobel's book The Case for Christ,
Investigate sites like answersingenesis or winteryknight blog, or if you can cope eith logic thereasonablefaith website.

These are places where very intelligent people have looked at Christianity and found that the evidence shows it is true.
 
That is hard to say.
I hope many hundreds.

If correct, that's an astonishingly small percentage of the known 2.38 billion Christians. If many hundreds was, say, 1000, then the percentage is 0.0000004%.

That's 4 in 10,000,000.

Are you suggesting that there are way less (on average) than 4 Christians on christianforums.net?

(Please don't take this post too seriously).
 
It is not a question of ' hope ', but of facing facts.
Try the coldcasechristianity site, or read Lee Strobel's book The Case for Christ,
Investigate sites like answersingenesis or winteryknight blog, or if you can cope eith logic thereasonablefaith website.

These are places where very intelligent people have looked at Christianity and found that the evidence shows it is true.

I have read Strobel's book. I thought it was good.

You do accept that one can be a Christian and believe in Darwinism (that at least is the claim of the Catholic Church and of people like Francis Collins)?
 
As I understand it, Jesus is said to have defeated Satan. Indeed, the symbolism of it (ie Jesus's resurrection) is perhaps the most powerful moment in history (if true).
It was true, and the power of it was given to all men.
By water baptism into Christ, (Rom 6:3), we are allowed to partaken in Jesus' death, burial, and in the resurrection from the tomb.
For Jesus, and for us, it enables us to walk in newness of life.
It is a way without sin.
By the resurrection of Christ, we can live without sinning.
 
If correct, that's an astonishingly small percentage of the known 2.38 billion Christians. If many hundreds was, say, 1000, then the percentage is 0.0000004%.
How many of those billions are actually Christians ?
That's 4 in 10,000,000
Are you suggesting that there are way less (on average) than 4 Christians on christianforums.net?
(Please don't take this post too seriously).
Jesus said few would be saved.
Only those who submit to Him are Christians and will be saved.
Are liars and thieves submissive to Christ ?
Adulterers ?
Murderers ?
Covetous ?
Addicts ?
Fornicators ?

Calling a liar a Christian, makes God the author of lies.
That just can't be.
 
How many of those billions are actually Christians ?

Jesus said few would be saved.
Only those who submit to Him are Christians and will be saved.
Are liars and thieves submissive to Christ ?
Adulterers ?
Murderers ?
Covetous ?
Addicts ?
Fornicators ?

Calling a liar a Christian, makes God the author of lies.
That just can't be.

Yes, it is certainly worth asking how many.

Interesting that you mention adultery. I posted a thread on it asking for a definition but haven't had much feedback (I suspect because polygamy was allowed and codified in the law). Jesus is unambiguous of course (Matthew 5:27-28) yet it does seem to bring his stance into conflict with the very law he also unambiguously vowed to uphold.

I hope I am wrong and there is no actual conflict.
 
HI Wheat Field

You can set your mind at rest. There isn't. I'm not sure how you're seeing that the particular passage of Matthew that you bring up codifies polygamy. Could you be a bit more clear on that?

God bless,
Ted

Sorry miamited, I probably wasn't totally clear - the Matthew passage doesn't codify polygamy - on the contrary, it absolutely rules it out. Passages in the OT that do make it legal are Deuteronomy 21:10, Exodus 21:10. Leviticus 20:10 appears to allow polygamy by defining adultery in a particular way.
 
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

That's what we should focus on. We can change one heart at a time. Trying to save nations and cultures through political means is not what Christianity is about.

We're closer to finishing the Great Commission than ever. Why would you want to be distracted from that?
 
Sorry miamited, I probably wasn't totally clear - the Matthew passage doesn't codify polygamy - on the contrary, it absolutely rules it out. Passages in the OT that do make it legal are Deuteronomy 21:10, Exodus 21:10. Leviticus 20:10 appears to allow polygamy by defining adultery in a particular way.
Hi Wheat Field
I posted a thread on it asking for a definition but haven't had much feedback (I suspect because polygamy was allowed and codified in the law). Jesus is unambiguous of course (Matthew 5:27-28) yet it does seem to bring his stance into conflict with the very law he also unambiguously vowed to uphold.

I mean, this is your post where you claim that polygamy was codified in the law. Immediately after that statement you posted a reference to Matthew 5:27-28. What did I miss?

Deuteronomy 21:10 says nothing, in my translation of the Scriptures in reference to polygamy: When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,... Then God's word explains what you are to do to marry a woman taken captive in some battle.

Exodus 21:10 does not codify polygamy, but it does mention what a husband is to do if he has more than one wife. I'm curious. In your understanding, does the fact that David had an illicit affair with Bethsheba mean that God approves of adultery? As I mentioned earlier, we're all sinners and that started with Eve. According to God's word there is no one righteous... no, not one. The Scriptures never make polygamy a part of the law. Polygamy was a cultural issue and that is always going to be a problem in juxtaposition to God's word. But it did happen! Just as David had an affair. Cain slew Abel. Aaron's sons sinned. The Scriptures are full of people striving to live as God has asked us, but fall to temptation and sin. That's why Jesus had to die.

If God could have just made men be faithful to Him in all of their living, then Jesus wouldn't have had to die. People would have been saved by keeping the law... but no one can keep the law.

However, you're young, and I remember my days of youth. I was all into evolution and multiple trillions of years old universe. But for me, I took God up on His challenge and in doing so, that settled things in my mind. Perhaps one day you will also come to the realization of God's truth. As believers, we plant seeds. We encourage others to seek for the truth. But not all do. The Scriptures are pretty clear on that.

God bless,
Ted
 
Hi Wheat Field

Anyway, bringing this back to the OP discussion. What I can tell you is that Ellicot was wrong.
Ellicott's commentary on this use of 'salt of the earth' states:
The words are spoken to the disciples in their ideal character, as the germ of a new Israel, called to a prophetic work, preserving the earth from moral putrescence and decay. The general reference to this antiseptic action of salt is enough to give an adequate meaning to the words...
There is nowhere in the Scriptures where we are ever encouraged or shown some example whereby we should think that christians are to preserve the earth from the moral putrescence and decay. The world has always been going to get worse and worse as time marches inexorably to the last day of this created realm. Just as God told Abraham that he wasn't going to go into the land of promise in his lifetime because the sin of the Amorites had not reached its fullness. We presently live in the days of God's patience for as many who will hear, to come to understand and accept His truth and trust that He really wants the best for us. But the sin of man has not reached its fullness yet.

What the Scriptures teach is that we are to rid such putrescence and decay from our own lives. We are to live in the world and understand that the sin of the world is going to grow and grow and become ever more pervasive with each generation, as it has been doing since time on this earth began. We are to understand that such is the known and foretold future from God of 'how exactly' life on this planet is going to go. But for those who have heard the message and turned to Jesus for forgiveness of their sin and repented of their sin, they then strive to rid their lives of the putrescence and decay that now they know infests their lives here on the earth.

But since Jesus' death, followers have never been given any orders or shown any examples that they are in any way responsible for the putrescence and decay that is out there in the world. That's going to come and it's going to get a whole lot worse. You can take that promise to heart whether you believe in God or not. The only way it gets better is that Jesus returns to rule and reign for 1,000 years upon the earth. That ushers in the final judgment when the fate of each person is sealed.

God bless,
Ted
 
Yes, it is certainly worth asking how many.

Interesting that you mention adultery. I posted a thread on it asking for a definition but haven't had much feedback (I suspect because polygamy was allowed and codified in the law). Jesus is unambiguous of course (Matthew 5:27-28) yet it does seem to bring his stance into conflict with the very law he also unambiguously vowed to uphold.

I hope I am wrong and there is no actual conflict.
I would define "adultery" as taking someone else's spouse as your own sexually.
The same applies to giving yourself to another, if you are married.
 
Yes, there is a "ring of truth" that sounds out from the Bible. I have found that it's divine Author is not distant and disinterested but ready to act in my life in the way His word says He will. Perhaps more than any other, His work in my life is the reason I am a Christian.

Indeed.

You wrote:
"How do you deal with all the unanswered questions, the seemingly failed prophecies, the curious OT permissiveness when it comes to polygamy, the clash between Darwinism and Genesis 1 etc?"

I find that my daily experience of God counters enormously all the potential sources of doubt that are out there.

I can't tell you everything about how a 747 works, why exactly its enormous weight and size don't keep it grounded, how all its various flight controls function, what feats of engineering have contributed to its ability to fly across the globe, but this doesn't stop me from being able to say that there really is such a thing as a 747 and that I've traveled in a number of them.

If these are burning questions you have that must be answered, I would suggest the following Christian apologetic resources:

www.crossexamined.org
www.coldcasechristianity.com
www.johnlennox.org
www.reasonablefaith.org
www.str.org

There are also some great books you might find very helpful:

"Warranted Christian Belief" by Alvin Plantinga
"On Guard" by William Lane Craig
"True For You, But Not For Me" by Paul Copan
"Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh and Sean McDowell.
"Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the God of the Old Testament" by Paul Copan.
"Scaling The Secular City," by J.P. Moreland.

Thanks. I looked at William Lane Craig's take on Matthew 24:34. It is an interesting read. He thinks that we cannot know for sure if Jesus actually included his return in the 'all these things' because we do not necessarily have the exact wording of what he said (he cites the wording of Matthew 10:23 and compares it with Mark 6:7-13). Also, he makes the point that there are parables (the good and faithful servant not knowing when exactly his master will return) that imply a long period of time.

It still leaves the door open for the skeptic though.

W. L. Craig does also urge that we look holistically at the evidence - that the resurrection is so well documented that any push back looks weak. I think this is an excellent point.

The issue of Matthew 24:34 is certainly a lot more knotty than would seem to be the case prima facie. Clearly for some though, it's the nail in the coffin for Christianity.

I will continue to study this.
 
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