Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Christian Forum aspires to be an online community where Christians can come together in fellowship with the purpose to encourage, inspire and build up our faith in Christ Jesus. John 13:34-35
  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

WHY CALVINISM IS UNBIBLICAL - LIMITED ATONEMENT

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,444
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
This calvinist teaching states that Jesus did not die for everyone....for the whole world...
but He died only for those that God chose to save, as explained in Unconditional Election.

This teaching is so extreme and clearly incorrect, that even some calvinists do not agree with it...
they are called 4 point calvinists.
It is interesting to note that John Calvin himself did not even believe in Limited Atonement.

This explains it well....

According to Limited Atonement, Christ died for the sins of the elect alone, and no atonement was provided for the reprobate.[2] This is in contrast to a belief that God's prevenient grace (or "enabling grace") enables all to respond to the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ Acts 2:21 so that it is each person's decision and response to God's grace that determines whether Christ's atonement will be effective to that individual.

source: Wikipedia


The reprobate, mentioned above, are those that God did not choose for salvation and thus will spend eternity in hell.
They are the non-elect; the unchosen; anyone that has read through the New Testament will immediately know that this teaching is unbiblical, as are all the others of calvinism, or the reformed.

The New Testament tells us, instead, that Jesus died for everyone...
He died for the whole world.
He paid for the sins of every person that ever lived or that will live in the future.

First let's establish who God would want to be saved.
Would it be everyone...
or just some persons?

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.



We know from the above verses, and as is found in the N.T. generally, that God loves His creation, man, and that He wishes that all would be saved.

If God wishes all men to be saved...then Jesus' atonement would necessarily have to be for all men.

Atonement:
1: reparation for an offense or injury : SATISFACTION a story of sin and atonement He wanted to find a way to make atonement for his sins.
2: the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atonement



Please notice no. 2: God reconciled humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus.
This concept goes far beyond Jesus dying for the chose as calvinists believe...
and it even goes beyond Jesus dying for those who believe in Him, as every Christian believes.
Adam caused mankind to fall. A serious injury was done to God by Adam's disobedience.
Because of Adam, all of mankind fell...mankind became separated from God.

Jesus' act of atonement not only paid for our sins, it also reconciled God to mankind.
Romans 5:18
18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.


We read in Romans that while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us, the ungodly.
Romans 5:6
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.


Christ died for the ungodly.
Who are the ungodly?
Everyone in the world that has not accepted to have faith in God.
Thus, if Christ died for the ungodly...He died for everyone.

And the purpose was to reconcile mankind to God.
The purpose was to buy us back from satan.
Mark 10:45
45“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...



Jesus purchased back humanity from satan....
Jesus died for all,,,but only those who take advantage of this free gift will be saved.
However, ALL have the opportunity to be saved through faith in Jesus.
The atonement was not limited, but available to all.

What did John and Paul say regarding the atonement?

1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:6
......the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all,


2 Corinthians 5:15
15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.


Hebrews 2:9
9.....so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.



The N.T. clearly states that Jesus died for everyone.
The atonement of Jesus was NOT limited.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Administrator
From
South Carolina
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Messages
19,302
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
carm.org/Did Jesus die for everyone? My Calvinist friends say no.
by Matt Slick

This is a common question regarding Reformed Theology and is known as limited atonement. Reformed theology, also known as Calvinism, teaches that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect and that He did not die for the sins of everyone who ever lived. This teaching is held by the Reformed and Presbyterian Churches as well as some Baptist ones. It is controversial in that there is debate regarding its validity from scripture. Nevertheless, we must understand that believing or not believing in limited atonement has no bearing on whether or not someone is a Christian or not. The issue is denominational; that is, it is a perspective held by some Christian churches but not others.

Nevertheless, is limited atonement biblical? The reader will have to decide. To help in making that decision, the following arguments for and against it are offered.

For Limited Atonement
If Jesus actually died for the sins of everyone who ever lived, then why does anyone go to hell? This argument holds that if Jesus actually did pay for everyone's sins, including unbelief, then no one should go to hell. The counter argument is that people must believe to be saved. The answer to this is that even disbelief is a sin that has been paid for; therefore, no one should go to hell. But, since people do go to hell, it is logical to believe that Jesus only bore the sins of the Christians. The Reformed theologians would say that though Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not intended for all.

Scriptures used to support limited atonement are as follows:

Jesus died for 'many.'
Matt. 26:28, "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."
Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33);
John 10:11,15 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep...15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
Matt. 25:32-33, "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left."
Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world;
John 17:9, "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine;"
The Church was purchased by Christ, not all people.
Acts 20:28, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."
Eph. 5:25-27, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless."
Prophecy of Jesus' crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).
Isaiah 53:12, "Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors."

Against Limited Atonement
The Bible says that Jesus died for all; therefore, Jesus died for all. God so loved the world, not just the Christian, that He died for everyone and it is up to the person to accept or reject Jesus. If he rejects Jesus, then the atonement is not applied to the person and he will go to hell. But, Jesus' sacrifice was not only sufficient for all, but intended for all.

Scriptures used to support an unlimited atonement are as follows:

Jesus died for everyone
John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
John 4:42, "and they were saying to the woman, 'It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.'"
1 Tim. 4:10, "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
1 John 4:14, "And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

Conclusion
There are points and counter-points related to this topic. Brilliant theologians reside on both sides of the issue. But, whether or not you believe in limited atonement, you must understand that those who do and those who don't are still Christians (provided they acknowledge and trust in the true God and Christ). We need to be tolerant of those with whom we disagree on doctrines that do not affect our salvation. So, whichever side you fall on as a Christian, be gracious to those who don't believe as you do. Remember, we have far more in common in Christ, than we have differences.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Administrator
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
29,105
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
This calvinist teaching states that Jesus did not die for everyone....for the whole world...
but He died only for those that God chose to save, as explained in Unconditional Election.

This teaching is so extreme and clearly incorrect, that even some calvinists do not agree with it...
they are called 4 point calvinists.
It is interesting to note that John Calvin himself did not even believe in Limited Atonement.

This explains it well....

According to Limited Atonement, Christ died for the sins of the elect alone, and no atonement was provided for the reprobate.[2] This is in contrast to a belief that God's prevenient grace (or "enabling grace") enables all to respond to the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ Acts 2:21 so that it is each person's decision and response to God's grace that determines whether Christ's atonement will be effective to that individual.

source: Wikipedia


The reprobate, mentioned above, are those that God did not choose for salvation and thus will spend eternity in hell.
They are the non-elect; the unchosen; anyone that has read through the New Testament will immediately know that this teaching is unbiblical, as are all the others of calvinism, or the reformed.

The New Testament tells us, instead, that Jesus died for everyone...
He died for the whole world.
He paid for the sins of every person that ever lived or that will live in the future.

First let's establish who God would want to be saved.
Would it be everyone...
or just some persons?

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


1 Timothy 2:3-4

3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


2 Peter 3:9

9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


We know from the above verses, and as is found in the N.T. generally, that God loves His creation, man, and that He wishes that all would be saved.

If God wishes all men to be saved...then Jesus' atonement would necessarily have to be for all men.

Atonement:
1: reparation for an offense or injury : SATISFACTION a story of sin and atonement He wanted to find a way to make atonement for his sins.
2: the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atonement



Please notice no. 2: God reconciled humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus.
This concept goes far beyond Jesus dying for the chose as calvinists believe...
and it even goes beyond Jesus dying for those who believe in Him, as every Christian believes.
Adam caused mankind to fall. A serious injury was done to God by Adam's disobedience.
Because of Adam, all of mankind fell...mankind became separated from God.

Jesus' act of atonement not only paid for our sins, it also reconciled God to mankind.
Romans 5:18
18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

We read in Romans that while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us, the ungodly.
Romans 5:6
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Christ died for the ungodly.
Who are the ungodly?
Everyone in the world that has not accepted to have faith in God.
Thus, if Christ died for the ungodly...He died for everyone.

And the purpose was to reconcile mankind to God.
The purpose was to buy us back from satan.
Mark 10:45
45“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6

6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...


Jesus purchased back humanity from satan....
Jesus died for all,,,but only those who take advantage of this free gift will be saved.
However, ALL have the opportunity to be saved through faith in Jesus.
The atonement was not limited, but available to all.

What did John and Paul say regarding the atonement?

1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:6
......the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all,


2 Corinthians 5:15
15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.


Hebrews 2:9
9.....so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.



The N.T. clearly states that Jesus died for everyone.
The atonement of Jesus was NOT limited.


Yes, this would certainly serve to shore up the idea of ”irresistible grace“ which must be withheld from those God has chosen not to be saved, otherwise they would become saved BECAUSE of irresistible grace.



JLB
 
Top