Why is God, a person's faith & their polictics is intertwined in the US? (An outsider's question)

[Aussie Mark]

Looking on from an outsider's viewpoint and living in a country where there is a clear distinction between church, state & judiciary, it often perplexing to understand what goes on in the US.

In Australia there is no link between being a Christian and who you vote for. Sure a lot of Christians might vote for a conservative party (Liberal/National Party) but then a lot may and do also vote for the the more progressive (left of centre) alternative (and current government) Labor Party. In the USA it seems that if you are Christian then you should/must vote Republican. As if voting Democrat somehow means you have sold your soul to the devil.

It should be noted at this point that in Australia voting is compulsory, once on the electoral roll, any failure to attend a polling station for an election (Federal, State or Local government) means being fined (subject to reasonable excuses).

Also, what is with "God Bless America"? Does any politician who says this truly believe this or is this a throwaway line like "have a nice day" just after you have received the worst customer service? Can I get some confirmation, or otherwise, that the USA is not some last bastion of the Christian faith, some New World Jersusalem?

While I would not usually question someone's faith or lack thereof, how can anyone believe that Donald Trump is a Christian? To publically and deliberately peddle untruths and divisions for political gain does not speak of the fruits of the spirit. When Jerushah Dufford, granddaughter of Billy Graham urges Christians not to vote for Trump in 2020, it made me think that many Christians are voting for the GOP because of their faith rather than looking at the man (candidate) himself and what he stands for. So, how can Trump stand in front of a church, Bible in hand and say "God Bless America"?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Republican party under Bush the elder, made a kind of deal with the growing Christian politically active groups to support their agenda and vice versa. So from then on, voting Republican was voting Christian. (Not a single promise did. they fulfill but it got them support.) The democrats moved into the opposite camp looking for those votes. When I lived there, there was no christian political party. But now the Dems are for all those directions christians find unacceptable. So the Republicans ARE the only party that is for the family, protecting marriage, protecting children, etc. That’s my impression.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I learned recently that the black Christian population in the US votes almost entirely Democrat. There was a YouTube video on why this came to be.

I'm not a Democrat, but I am left leaning. At least by US standards. IMO the only reason to vote Republican is the issue of abortion and the 2nd amendment. I'm an independent party, so I vote for either depending on what's at stake.

I don't know exactly why the US religious right believes they have a monopoly on Christianity, but I suspect the issues of abortion and LGBTQ rights have a lot to do with it.

 

[evenifigoalone]

While I would not usually question someone's faith or lack thereof, how can anyone believe that Donald Trump is a Christian? To publically and deliberately peddle untruths and divisions for political gain does not speak of the fruits of the spirit. When Jerushah Dufford, granddaughter of Billy Graham urges Christians not to vote for Trump in 2020, it made me think that many Christians are voting for the GOP because of their faith rather than looking at the man (candidate) himself and what he stands for. So, how can Trump stand in front of a church, Bible in hand and say "God Bless America"?

Some consider him "the lesser of two evils", but there does seem to be a mob mentality around his supporters. It's bizarre.

 

[jasonc]

I learned recently that the black Christian population in the US votes almost entirely Democrat. There was a YouTube video on why this came to be.

I'm not a Democrat, but I am left leaning. At least by US standards. IMO the only reason to vote Republican is the issue of abortion and the 2nd amendment. I'm an independent party, so I vote for either depending on what's at stake.

I don't know exactly why the US religious right believes they have a monopoly on Christianity, but I suspect the issues of abortion and LGBTQ rights have a lot to do with it.

The left lately and the right ,well the u.s dollar won't be worth much soon.not that it really is .

The petrodollar versus a metal based standard .

 

[Aussie Mark]

The Republican party under Bush the elder, made a kind of deal with the growing Christian politically active groups to support their agenda and vice versa. So from then on, voting Republican was voting Christian. (Not a single promise did. they fulfill but it got them support.) The democrats moved into the opposite camp looking for those votes. When I lived there, there was no christian political party. But now the Dems are for all those directions christians find unacceptable. So the Republicans ARE the only party that is for the family, protecting marriage, protecting children, etc. That’s my impression.

"So the Republicans ARE the only party that is for the family, protecting marriage, protecting children, etc."

So let me get this straight, there is a genuine belief among a large amount of voting Christians that the Democrats have little interest in, or have policies that are not for, the family, protecting marriage, protecting children etc.

Without wanting to go down the very deep rabbit-hole of gun-control, it seems really twisted from an Australian (outsider's) point of view that as an example, the party who a lot Christians vote for, is the same party that resists any form of gun control in the wake of Sandy Hook where so many childen died.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

"So the Republicans ARE the only party that is for the family, protecting marriage, protecting children, etc."

So let me get this straight, there is a genuine belief among a large amount of voting Christians that the Democrats have little interest in, or have policies that are not for, the family, protecting marriage, protecting children etc.

Without wanting to go down the very deep rabbit-hole of gun-control, it seems really twisted from an Australian (outsider's) point of view that as an example, the party who a lot Christians vote for, is the same party that resists any form of gun control in the wake of Sandy Hook where so many childen died.

I think Americans active in politics ought to answer this.

 

[Aussie Mark]

I learned recently that the black Christian population in the US votes almost entirely Democrat. There was a YouTube video on why this came to be.

I'm not a Democrat, but I am left leaning. At least by US standards. IMO the only reason to vote Republican is the issue of abortion and the 2nd amendment. I'm an independent party, so I vote for either depending on what's at stake.

I don't know exactly why the US religious right believes they have a monopoly on Christianity, but I suspect the issues of abortion and LGBTQ rights have a lot to do with it.

Thanks for your reply and yes I also understand that a large portion of both black and latino populations tend to vote Democrat. I should hunt out that video.

While of course there are Australians who don't support the abortion laws that we have here, there is not what seems from outside the almost hysterical fervour of entrenched extreme Yes / No positions on the issue that exisit in the USA. Overturning Roe v Wade was a HUGE deal with massive ramifications. (This is not an invitation for a pile-on about the abortion issue in the US, just perspective).

I am glad you seem a liitle perplexed too.

 

[Aussie Mark]

Some consider him "the lesser of two evils", but there does seem to be a mob mentality around his supporters. It's bizarre.

The view from here is certainly an impression of a mob and with all due respect to any Trump supporters here, lemmings.

 

[Aussie Mark]

I think Americans active in politics ought to answer this.

Thanks Dorothy, valid point. Keen to see a response.

 

[hawkman]

In Australia there is no link between being a Christian and who you vote for.

Do you have any statistics for that ? I would think this party would like the Christian vote in Australia .
Voting 1 for Australian Christians is never a wasted vote.

Also, what is with "God Bless America"? Does any politician who says this truly believe this or is this a throwaway line like "have a nice day" just after you have received the worst customer service?

A politician would be the best one to answer your question , and I am not .

Can I get some confirmation, or otherwise, that the USA is not some last bastion of the Christian faith, some New World Jersusalem?

It must be, people are pouring across our southern border to come live here .

So, how can Trump stand in front of a church, Bible in hand and say "God Bless America"?

And his hair was perfect !

 

[jasonc]

Do you have any statistics for that ? I would think this party would like the Christian vote in Australia .
Voting 1 for Australian Christians is never a wasted vote.

A politician would be the best one to answer your question , and I am not .

It must be, people are pouring across our southern border to come live here .

And his hair was perfect !

They simply only see what the media tells them.
As you know I didn't vote for Trump .Biden well I could quote him and naiseum and he is not any better to say God bless America .

He voted against busing blacks to white schools
Many of the policies he now rails against he was for and voted in.
Lies then and lies now about policies .
47 year plus politician ,expect nothing less.

I don't get the left and rights tendency to make political offices celebrity like .

It feeds narcism and also fan cults form. Trump has his as does Obama .

 

[Aussie Mark]

Do you have any statistics for that ? I would think this party would like the Christian vote in Australia .
Voting 1 for Australian Christians is never a wasted vote.

A politician would be the best one to answer your question , and I am not .

It must be, people are pouring across our southern border to come live here .

And his hair was perfect !

We do have a Christian party but it is a very small minority/fringe party winning very little if any senate seats with no real consistency.

Our previous Prime Minister was Christian and, sad o say, in my opinon did very little to really demostrate his faith in a way that set hom apart from his fellow politicans. A number of Christians I know were embarassed by him.

 

[Aussie Mark]

Do you have any statistics for that ? I would think this party would like the Christian vote in Australia .
Voting 1 for Australian Christians is never a wasted vote.

A politician would be the best one to answer your question , and I am not .

It must be, people are pouring across our southern border to come live here .

And his hair was perfect !

The number of people crossing the southern border I suspect has less to do with some American perception as the US being a "beacon" Christian nation but more to do with the usual push & pull factors that drive such forms of immigration & migration of refugees: persecution, poverty, lack of opportunity V (real or perceived) opportunity, standard of living, personal safety etc.

 

[hawkman]

We do have a Christian party but it is a very small minority/fringe party winning very little if any senate seats with no real consistency.

Our previous Prime Minister was Christian and, sad o say, in my opinon did very little to really demostrate his faith in a way that set hom apart from his fellow politicans. A number of Christians I know were embarassed by him.

I feel your pain my friend . I thought DJT started off good but about halfway through his term he went off the rails .

 

[Aussie Mark]

They simply only see what the media tells them.
As you know I didn't vote for Trump .Biden well I could quote him and naiseum and he is not any better to say God bless America .

He voted against busing blacks to white schools
Many of the policies he now rails against he was for and voted in.
Lies then and lies now about policies .
47 year plus politician ,expect nothing less.

I don't get the left and rights tendency to make political offices celebrity like .

It feeds narcism and also fan cults form. Trump has his as does Obama .

I am not holding Biden up as any sort of political saint but the polictal discourse has taken a marked downturn not only in the US but elsewhere and I think this is due to a few factors:

1. Trump himself: A decided propenisty to straight lie and prosecute that lie as if it is a truth. All politiocnas bend, manipulte and soemtimes lie but this has changed things for the worse.
2. Social Media: The rise of social media and its tendancy to heard like-minded people and help re-inforce alternate views as "absolute truths" is robbing us of the ability to have cicilised policy and social discussions without hiding behind virtual barricades and just lobbing "grenades"
3. The rise of more nationalist moveents globally" Sad to see this hapening in parts of Europe for example these past few eyars. This sort of far right focusses ideology like to focus attention on a group or grooups to"blame" for current discontent which is then fuelled. (see bove point here too)

 

[jasonc]

I am not holding Biden up as any sort of political saint but the polictal discourse has taken a marked downturn not only in the US but elsewhere and I think this is due to a few factors:

1. Trump himself: A decided propenisty to straight lie and prosecute that lie as if it is a truth. All politiocnas bend, manipulte and soemtimes lie but this has changed things for the worse.
2. Social Media: The rise of social media and its tendancy to heard like-minded people and help re-inforce alternate views as "absolute truths" is robbing us of the ability to have cicilised policy and social discussions without hiding behind virtual barricades and just lobbing "grenades"
3. The rise of more nationalist moveents globally" Sad to see this hapening in parts of Europe for example these past few eyars. This sort of far right focusses ideology like to focus attention on a group or grooups to"blame" for current discontent which is then fuelled. (see bove point here too)

Sorry until every one speaks one language and no cultural difference exists the idea of nationalism will be.

You can't as I personally know a man whose church rents from mine ,except the Spanish to forget their heritage and we'll culturally they are mixed .

With Puerto Rico is the tano tribe and most Latinos are Indian mixes with Spanish ,French ,Portuguese .

I simply believe in home rule ,in context which since the civil war has been lost but the south and north before under stood it .the United States of America .loyalty was to your state above the federal government .

In context .if I was back before 1900 even then in Florida. The nearest armed help was my neighbor .Indians traded with peacefully with whites unless the federal govt forced a war and often it led the push to drive them out as the locals nearby weren't the ones to want them gone it was the fed agents with the push of railroad and other person's for their land .yes the Indians at time weren't nice but that is the short story .

My wife is Seminole ,her grandchild half Cherokee .

Since it's unlikely outside of America you know that i figured to add that inn.as the Democrats push the wokenrss and reparations which divided not unites .

You can't unite by vote cultured that have no commonality and force wont work .and no I'm not a Scandinavian type of uniformity where it's mostly one culture .but any group must also share some values or it won't work .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

One thing foreigners might or might not know, is that Americans, by and large, are very poorly educated now. As evidence, look at the Americans here who don’t know that you start a sentence, a new thought, with a capitol letter and end it with a period. They don’t know how to write to make it easier for the other to read. That’s just evidence here. But they or we, we’re not taught to THINK. We were taught to learn and recite. A had a kiwi friend who as a teacher living with Americans pointed this out to me. Americans are taught to swallow what they’re given. The “vaccine” debate is an example. The side for them immediately sinks to calling them doubters nasty names. This is because they cannot think or reason out the ramifications. They can only recite what they are told sans thinking. So yes, it’s a nation taught to be lemmings.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Free, I don’t read your postings in response to a “vaccine” discussion because you just call me nasty names and I’m tired of it. If it was regarding being off topic, I am dropping that topic so that matter is settled.

But as a christian you ought to consider not calling those with a different understanding than you names. Jeering is something even the angle opposing the Devil over Moses’ body didn’t do. God’s side doesn’t sink to calling the other side names. The other side issues that tactic.

 

[Free]

Free, I don’t read your postings in response to a “vaccine” discussion because you just call me nasty names and I’m tired of it. If it was regarding being off topic, I am dropping that topic so that matter is settled.

But as a christian you ought to consider not calling those with a different understanding than you names. Jeering is something even the angle opposing the Devil over Moses’ body didn’t do. God’s side doesn’t sink to calling the other side names. The other side issues that tactic.

Why did you post this in here? It has nothing to do with the topic and I’m not involved in this discussion. Why do you want to publicly malign me? It is very poor form to post something like this in public. You should have private messaged me your concerns, which would have been the biblical way of dealing with any issue you had with me.

I know there has certainly been misunderstanding on your part of things I have said, but I have never called you “nasty names.” Nor do I call people names who have a different understanding.

Please, any further discussion of this is to be done through PM.