Will the true Church Please Stand Up

[Jesse]

Revelation 2 & 3 God rebukes the churches. Only people that have remained true to the gospel "Philadelphia"

Do you not attend a church?

 

[Malachi]

In keeping with many recent posts here, just look how we have distorted the original meaning of the word, "apocalypse".

It's even in the modern dictionary THIS way....
a·poc·a·lypse
əˈpäkəˌlips/
noun
noun: Apocalypse; noun: the Apocalypse; noun: apocalypse; plural noun: apocalypses
1.
the complete final destruction of the world, especially as described in the biblical book of Revelation.

• (especially in the Vulgate Bible) the book of Revelation.

2.
an event involving destruction or damage on an awesome or catastrophic scale

You forgot to mention that both these definitions are incorrect. That is how the unbelieving world defines Apocalypse.

But in the Bible it literally means "revelation", "disclosure" or "manifestation" or "appearing" or even "unveiling" or "uncovering" (see Strong's 602 and Vine's) from the Greek word apokalupsis, hence Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ or "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1).

When all is said and done, no believer need be deceived. We have the complete written Word of God and we have the blessed Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. We also have many Bible study tools to help us know the truth.

 

[LovethroughDove]

My church is on here and other sites with Christians.

Do you not attend a church?

So, not a literal church building.

 

[LovethroughDove]

But in the Bible it literally means "revelation", "disclosure" or "manifestation" or "appearing" or even "unveiling" or "uncovering" (see Strong's 602 and Vine's) .

This is how I understand the word.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation 2 & 3 God rebukes the churches. Only people that have remained true to the gospel "Philadelphia"

It would do us all well if we learned what the seven spirits the Church of Philadelphia lives by found in Isaiah 11:2 that we remain obedient to Gods will.

 

[Willie T]

Haha no.

Why do you ask? Do you disagree with what I said.

It's just that Catholics tend to see "grace" as something we possess to accomplish things, whereas Protestants understand it to be more an attribute of God through which He grants what we strive to do in His name.

 

[Willie T]

You forgot to mention that both these definitions are incorrect. That is how the unbelieving world defines Apocalypse.

But in the Bible it literally means "revelation", "disclosure" or "manifestation" or "appearing" or even "unveiling" or "uncovering" (see Strong's 602 and Vine's) from the Greek word apokalupsis, hence Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ or "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1).

When all is said and done, no believer need be deceived. We have the complete written Word of God and we have the blessed Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. We also have many Bible study tools to help us know the truth.

Uh..... yeah, that's what I said....... (??????)

 

[Kathi]

A lot of people are unhappy with the Church now.They are not seeing God in their Church.

 

[for_his_glory]

You forgot to mention that both these definitions are incorrect. That is how the unbelieving world defines Apocalypse.

But in the Bible it literally means "revelation", "disclosure" or "manifestation" or "appearing" or even "unveiling" or "uncovering" (see Strong's 602 and Vine's) from the Greek word apokalupsis, hence Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ or "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1).

When all is said and done, no believer need be deceived. We have the complete written Word of God and we have the blessed Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. We also have many Bible study tools to help us know the truth.

Why do you think we need other Bible study tools, other than maybe the Strong's Exhausted Concordance, to learn from. If we have the Holy Spirit teaching us why would we need any other sources.

 

[for_his_glory]

A lot of people are unhappy with the Church now.They are not seeing God in their Church.

That's one of the reasons why I have yet to find another church in my area since we had to close the doors of our old one. I have more fellowship coming into forums like this as we all share together and study the word. Is that not what Church needs to be as a place of learning and not one given to socializing and gossip.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Willie T]

That's one of the reasons why I have yet to find another church in my area since we had to close the doors of our old one. I have more fellowship coming into forums like this as we all share together and study the word. Is that not what Church needs to be as a place of learning and not one given to socializing and gossip.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The second chapter of Acts of loaded with the primary social function of Christianity.

 

[for_his_glory]

The second chapter of Acts of loaded with the primary social function of Christianity.

Can you elaborate more as I don't want to second guess you as to what you mean. Thanks

 

[Willie T]

Can you elaborate more as I don't want to second guess you as to what you mean. Thanks

They were all together, sharing things, eating together, helping one another, and it seems, pretty much very involved with one another's everyday lives.

 

[for_his_glory]

They were all together, sharing things, eating together, helping one another, and it seems, pretty much very involved with one another's everyday lives.

Thank you Willie. Yes, they were all in one accord and that's the way today's churches need to be is in one accord as in one Lord, one faith and one baptism, Ephesians 4:1-7.

 

[Deborah13]

True. What's changed is the teaching opposed to grace that says you must keep the letter of the law in order to be saved is generally absent in the church these days. That message has come in loud and clear for the church. Now if we can just pull ourselves back from the opposite knee jerk that makes grace a license to sin.

You know I haven't seen this or heard any grace preacher teach this way myself but I believe you that it is out there. And I also agree that things seem to go from one extreme to the other without stopping to grasp the truth. So yes, a knee jerk reaction. It's rather like the college freshman that is turned loose from the parents control, they go too far the opposite direction.
But there are those who, being of sound mind and maturity, will bring it back into a correct balance. I have already heard some of this concern from a couple grace preachers who trying to correct the problem, just as Paul had to. :nod

 

[Jesse]

A lot of people are unhappy with the Church now.They are not seeing God in their Church.

I haven't been able to find the "right" church either. I can not put my finger on just one issue either, it's the combination of many. On the other hand, I do believe there has to be a group of believers out there who are "doing church" much like in Acts as Willie T mentioned. Through serving in the community I have met many believers who are truly seeking God, but when I visit their church, it's very different than what that person is like, not everyone has their attitude towards God.

So do we go to one of these, or hold out?

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus came to show us how to overcome the sin nature of the world by teaching us how to live a moral life compatible with the word of God. Jesus gave of himself for all of us and redeemed us from the curse of sin by taking all our sin upon him becoming the final blood sacrifice for his love towards everyone who will believe on his name. When we come to Jesus it is Gods grace that forgives our sins and remembers them no more. Sin will always be present with us because the flesh will always sin for that is its nature, but when we ask Jesus into our hearts we also receive at that same moment the gift of the Holy Spirit which teaches us how to separate ourselves from the ungodliness and lusts of this world. We may have to live in this world, but as a child of God we are not part of this world because our inner man, or heart, has now become renewed in the Spirit of God and is sinless through the grace of God.

Titus 2:11 for the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

[Deborah13]

It's just that Catholics tend to see "grace" as something we possess to accomplish things, whereas Protestants understand it to be more an attribute of God through which He grants what we strive to do in His name.

You know that is what I heard Jessie saying. I believe that grace, God's unmerited favor, is bestowed on us for several reasons but they all boil down to one thing, 'to glorify God.'

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I haven't been able to find the "right" church either. I can not put my finger on just one issue either, it's the combination of many. On the other hand, I do believe there has to be a group of believers out there who are "doing church" much like in Acts as Willie T mentioned. Through serving in the community I have met many believers who are truly seeking God, but when I visit their church, it's very different than what that person is like, not everyone has their attitude towards God.

So do we go to one of these, or hold out?

Maybe that church needs more people like you to attend it so it will be as it should be.

 

[Malachi]

Why do you think we need other Bible study tools, other than maybe the Strong's Exhausted Concordance, to learn from. If we have the Holy Spirit teaching us why would we need any other sources.

for_his_glory,

It is the Holy Spirit who led men like Strong (Concordance), and Vine (Dictionary) and Wilson (Word Studies) and Torrey (Treasury of Scripture Knowledge) to provide us with tools to help us in our Bible studies.

Not all of us can be Hebrew and Greek scholars, and these tools are not to "learn from" but to "learn with". Pastors and teachers should be encouraging Christians to use them, but that is rare indeed.

It is the Holy Spirit -- the Spirit of God Himself -- who teaches us.