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Works done not to get God's love but because we love God

Heidi

Member
These arguments and controversies about the law and works are, as Paul tells us in Titus, therefore, foolish. Good works are done not to get God's love but because we love God! When our cups are cleaned from the inside, as Jesus tells us, the outside will become clean as well. Jesus washes our hearts with love from the Holy Spirit and we will respond out of that love because as he says, "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth sepaks."

But if someone isn't cleansed from Christ's love by the Holy Spirit, then he will try to clean his cup from the outside which cannot be done. Because their hearts are not cleaned from the inside, they have to imitate the behavior of others and consult a rule book to try to earn their way to heaven. But all this will be meaningless because; "Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven."

Our salvation was already accomplished for us on the cross. "It is finished." The rest of our lives are now spent in thankfulness and joy and everything we do is done to glorify God not ourselves. And anyone who concentrates on works cannot do good deeds with the left hand without the right hand knowing it. Not only is he keeping a track record of how good he is, he is not doing it out of love for God, but to get God's love. But again as Jesus tells us, those who do good deeds with the left hand without the right hand knowing it are not interested in how many works they do, only in loving God.

Those who also think they can lose their salvation if they don't do good works are also doing good works to get God's love instead of out of loving God. This is not only selfish, it is manipulative. But those who are thankful for what Jesus did for us, can think of nothing more desirable than giving up our whole lives to thank God.

So this quibbling about the law is foolish and a waste of time because all we need is love for "love is the fulfillment of the law."
 
Heidi said:
So this quibbling about the law is foolish and a waste of time because all we need is love for "love is the fulfillment of the law."

Except, of course, when those placed in power to uphold the law deny the fact it is God who established it, and thus do not act out of love but out of their own self-righteousnes.

Otherwise, good post :D
 
PHIL121 said:
Heidi said:
So this quibbling about the law is foolish and a waste of time because all we need is love for "love is the fulfillment of the law."

Except, of course, when those placed in power to uphold the law deny the fact it is God who established it, and thus do not act out of love but out of their own self-righteousnes.

Otherwise, good post :D

That was my whole point. Thanks. :)
 
Heidi wrote:
Those who also think they can lose their salvation if they don't do good works are also doing good works to get God's love instead of out of loving God. This is not only selfish, it is manipulative. But those who are thankful for what Jesus did for us, can think of nothing more desirable than giving up our whole lives to thank God.
I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about here. Doing good works in not about getting God's love, it is about loving God (which you only attribute to those who believe in OSAS). Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments". Part of His commandments are to do good works. So you see, those who think they can lose their salvation do good works because we love God and wish to do His will. God is love and has shown His love to us "in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)Revelation 20:12-13 says that God will judge us by our works! Again, you whole argument here is simply a misunderstanding of why we do good works. We do so because we love God.A Christian and good works go hand in hand and good works are what God has said we must do and not what we think.
 
Collier said:
Heidi wrote:
Those who also think they can lose their salvation if they don't do good works are also doing good works to get God's love instead of out of loving God. This is not only selfish, it is manipulative. But those who are thankful for what Jesus did for us, can think of nothing more desirable than giving up our whole lives to thank God.
I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about here. Doing good works in not about getting God's love, it is about loving God (which you only attribute to those who believe in OSAS). Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments". Part of His commandments are to do good works. So you see, those who think they can lose their salvation do good works because we love God and wish to do His will. God is love and has shown His love to us "in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)Revelation 20:12-13 says that God will judge us by our works! Again, you whole argument here is simply a misunderstanding of why we do good works. We do so because we love God.A Christian and good works go hand in hand and good works are what God has said we must do and not what we think.

But you are still saying that those who think they can lose their salvation are doing good works to get their salvation, are you not? How is that not selfish? :o True love asks for nothing back. Period.
 
Collier,

Do you do good works because you are supposed to or because you want to thank God? Again those who think their salvation depends on good works contradict, "It does not therefore depend on man's own effort but on God's mercy". You are also then contradicting Jesus when he said; "First clean the inside of your cup and the outside will become clean as well."

As I said in my post, good works come from the Holy Spirit, not on man's effort. And since the Holy Spirit is stronger than the devil, those who have received it will do good works. End of story.
 
Heidi wrote:
But you are still saying that those who think they can lose their salvation are doing good works to get their salvation, are you not? How is that not selfish? True love asks for nothing back. Period.
No, I am not saying that. We accept God's gift of salvation when we obey God. There is nothing selfish about doing what God has commanded. If you say that true love asks for nothing back, then why does God ask for us to believe? God loves all men and Christ died for all men. You may want to rethink that statement.
Do you do good works because you are supposed to or because you want to thank God?
I do them because I love God and wish to keep His commandments. Heidi, we are servants and servants work for their master.
 
Collier said:
Heidi wrote:
But you are still saying that those who think they can lose their salvation are doing good works to get their salvation, are you not? How is that not selfish? True love asks for nothing back. Period.
No, I am not saying that. We accept God's gift of salvation when we obey God. There is nothing selfish about doing what God has commanded. If you say that true love asks for nothing back, then why does God ask for us to believe? God loves all men and Christ died for all men. You may want to rethink that statement.[quote:b963a]Do you do good works because you are supposed to or because you want to thank God?
I do them because I love God and wish to keep His commandments. Heidi, we are servants and servants work for their master.[/quote:b963a]

You didn't answer my question. Do you do good works because you are supposed to or because you want to? Are they a chore, duty, or obligation, or a desire of your heart?



Faith does not come from works. Works come from faith. How can we obey a God we don't believe exists? :o Therefore, faith has to come first. So we don't get faith back when we do good works. It's the other way around. So it is you who has no clue what he's talking about.

Do you know what Jesus means when he says; "Now eternal life is this; that they know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

Please explain that one passage and you'll know what salvation is.

I have never met a group of people as confused about salvation as those on this forum. The fact that I get arguments when I say that love is the fulfillment of the law which is what Paul said, then it just shows that some people simply like to argue.
 
Collier said:
Heidi wrote:
But you are still saying that those who think they can lose their salvation are doing good works to get their salvation, are you not? How is that not selfish? True love asks for nothing back. Period.
No, I am not saying that. We accept God's gift of salvation when we obey God. There is nothing selfish about doing what God has commanded. If you say that true love asks for nothing back, then why does God ask for us to believe? God loves all men and Christ died for all men. You may want to rethink that statement.[quote:66070]Do you do good works because you are supposed to or because you want to thank God?
I do them because I love God and wish to keep His commandments. Heidi, we are servants and servants work for their master.[/quote:66070]

So you are agin saying that salvation does depend on obeying God. Is that correct? If so, then you contradict :It does not therefore depend on man's own desire or effort but on God's mercy."

Grace means that we did nothing to deserve heaven. Nothing. It is just God's mercy. God's love is unconditional, not conditional.

therefore, our works come out of thankfulness instead of to manipulate God into saving us. I'm sorry you don't understand that. :sad
 
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