No, the Apostles are in union with Christ, not Peter. Those who are outside of the new covenant of God's grace through Christ Jesus are none of His own.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study Scripture required?
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
I believe that scripture is our only authority, but many add to it and take away from it to fit their own theories. It's not the Apostles of Christ that is our authority, but that which was given them to write by God that is our authority.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The rock of salvation yes but Christ is the one who is building the church and he does so on the apostles
There really is no disconnect here
Jn 15:4-5 union with christ
Eph 5:32 union
Eph 5:24 church subject to chirst
Jn 16:13 with the guarantee or promise of the spirit
Then why don’t you obey them?
Acts 2:42
Only one church Jn 10:16 only founded by Christ Matt 16:18
The Church is the body of Christ, not the Apostles.
Christ Church was founded on the belief of the Apostles and the Prophets
Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Jesus never said He built His Church on Peter, even though many Catholics are taught that Peter was the first Pope, but that the Apostles and the Prophets who were first called Christians in Antioch as the Holy Spirit revealed to all of them that Jesus is the Son of the living God and with that belief Christ established His true Church being the cornerstone that holds all things together. Jesus is the cornerstone for everything He and the Father dreamed up at the beginning of time being the firstborn of all creation. Colossians 1:15-19; 1Peter 2:4-6.
Hi donadams
Yes, I can see that we both agree that Jesus only founded one 'ecclesia'. Fellowship of those who are called out for God's good purpose through faith in His Son, Jesus.
I'd say that's a good thing for us to agree on.
God bless,
Ted
Who ever said I do not obey the teachings that Christ gave to the Apostles before He sent them out into the world. No one can teach above that which has already been written in the inspired scriptures. Many add to and take away and God gave a stick warning to those who do this.
Is it the doctrines of the Apostles, the various doctrines that come by the carnal mind of logic, or is it the doctrines of Christ in which what God gave Jesus to speak. There is a lot of cross-referring between the Old and New Testament, plus the history we need to search out that scripture provides for us to gain wisdom and knowledge. I refuse to listen to anyone who does not use the full context of the scripture and try to make scripture line up with what they say.
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Hi again donadams
Based on that definition, and I do agree that any fellowship that is following the teaching of the apostles in our working out of faith, is an apostolic church. And since the apostles taught the same things that Jesus did, it would also make them a Christ-like fellowship.
Good on ya, mate!
I'm guessing that it's going to be awhile before we say the quiet part out loud.
God bless,
Ted
If the original church, which BTW was established on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem with Jerusalem being under Roman authority in which the Disciples hid from in the Upper Room and with Peter giving the first sermon adding that day another 3000, this would make us all Catholics and not only Catholics, but Roman Catholics under the authority of the Roman government and the Vatican.
If you could provide that piece of history I would love to read it.
Blasphemy!
The Cornerstone is what the rest of the building aligns with, and is patterned by.
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24
We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, with Jesus Christ being the Chief Cornerstone.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22
Does scripture call the Church the Prophetic Church?
Nor does it call the Church the Apostolic Church.
We are the Church; temple of the living God.
JLB
So there is more than one "rock" ?
Tenchi
Member
1 Corinthians 3:11
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Who is the “man of God”?
Hi donadams
It could be you if you applied and understood the doctrine that the Scriptures tell us of rightly. The 'man of God' in this reference is anyone who chooses to follow after the Christ, the anointed Holy One. And he 'the man of God' does that by understanding and applying the doctrines of the Scriptures... rightly. This comes from much prayer and beseeching of God to allow us to gain our understanding through His Holy Spirit and His Holy Spirit alone, as we marry him into our study efforts.
God bless,
Ted
It’s like saying Jesus Christ brought forth our salvation!
Foundation is apostolic eph 2:20
With a threefold office
Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24
Hi again donadams
You know, I don't know if you've ever talked to one of the 'studious' atheists concerning the discrepencies, errors, contradictions and the like, that they find in God's word.
Now, these people have read that particular area and have thought of themselves to come to an understanding that we, believers, know to be in error. And you can point that out to them and tell them that there is going to be a lot of misunderstanding of what God is telling us in His word, without the indwelling Holy Spirit to give us understanding. But they don't understand that. They don't have a clue what is even being said when a believer tells them that they need the indwelling Holy Spirit for full understanding of God and what He has revealed to us. But they don't understand that.
But you may have talked to enough to know that they believe that what they believe is the truth. That's a hard battle to overcome in a person. But with much love and careful understanding, sometimes, a light will dawn.
My point here is that often times people without the Spirit of God have a hard time understanding the things of God.
Jesus began to build a 'church' upon the earth. That 'church' is the total body of born again believers living upon the earth at any given time. It is not defined by some religious hierarchy or ecclesiastical body of people. It is not defined by any earthly labeled denomination. Although there are some who make it harder than it needs to be. It is not the building down on the corner with the steeple on the top. It is not even the plot of land on which such a place might stand.
The 'church' of Jesus is the total of all born again believers living upon the earth at any given time. According to the Scriptures, there will be some from every tribe and tongue and nation taking part in the eternal promise of God for those who will trust and believe the testimony of His Son, and strive to live as he did when he walked among us. That is the church. It didn't start with anyone other than Jesus, although many faithful born again followers went out and began teaching the truth that Jesus brought to us. They were servants of God most high.
But the 'church' continued to build from that humble beginning on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was loosed upon the earth and given unto believers as their deposit guaranteeing their coming salvation from God's wrath. Many religious bodies have tried to take over and run 'their' church as they see fit to run it, but most of those efforts aren't a whole lot different than the efforts of the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees who thought to run the Jewish faith as they saw fit. Which Jesus pretty soundly rebuked them for.
Don't confuse the 'church' that is described in the Scriptures as some identifiable body of people meeting in a particular place or building. Don't confuse the 'church' that loves Jesus as only living under some man inspired edict that seeks to control their lives, apart from the Scriptures.
God bless,
Ted
You know, I don't know if you've ever talked to one of the 'studious' atheists concerning the discrepencies, errors, contradictions and the like, that they find in God's word.
Now, these people have read that particular area and have thought of themselves to come to an understanding that we, believers, know to be in error. And you can point that out to them and tell them that there is going to be a lot of misunderstanding of what God is telling us in His word, without the indwelling Holy Spirit to give us understanding. But they don't understand that. They don't have a clue what is even being said when a believer tells them that they need the indwelling Holy Spirit for full understanding of God and what He has revealed to us. But they don't understand that.
But you may have talked to enough to know that they believe that what they believe is the truth. That's a hard battle to overcome in a person. But with much love and careful understanding, sometimes, a light will dawn.
My point here is that often times people without the Spirit of God have a hard time understanding the things of God.
Jesus began to build a 'church' upon the earth. That 'church' is the total body of born again believers living upon the earth at any given time. It is not defined by some religious hierarchy or ecclesiastical body of people. It is not defined by any earthly labeled denomination. Although there are some who make it harder than it needs to be. It is not the building down on the corner with the steeple on the top. It is not even the plot of land on which such a place might stand.
The 'church' of Jesus is the total of all born again believers living upon the earth at any given time. According to the Scriptures, there will be some from every tribe and tongue and nation taking part in the eternal promise of God for those who will trust and believe the testimony of His Son, and strive to live as he did when he walked among us. That is the church. It didn't start with anyone other than Jesus, although many faithful born again followers went out and began teaching the truth that Jesus brought to us. They were servants of God most high.
But the 'church' continued to build from that humble beginning on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was loosed upon the earth and given unto believers as their deposit guaranteeing their coming salvation from God's wrath. Many religious bodies have tried to take over and run 'their' church as they see fit to run it, but most of those efforts aren't a whole lot different than the efforts of the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees who thought to run the Jewish faith as they saw fit. Which Jesus pretty soundly rebuked them for.
Don't confuse the 'church' that is described in the Scriptures as some identifiable body of people meeting in a particular place or building. Don't confuse the 'church' that loves Jesus as only living under some man inspired edict that seeks to control their lives, apart from the Scriptures.
God bless,
Ted
And we say on the person of Peter and the apostles
You can’t give the keys of the kingdom to a “confession of faith”
But to a person!
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Apostles in person!