Abortion Question

[Kellig]

What is the difference between:

Jeremiah 32:35 (NIV) They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

And abortion?

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think abortion is usually the result of unfortunate circumstances. A woman isn't emotionally ready to have a kid, she's in school, she doesn't have the funds, a kid would interfere with her work, she's in a bad relationship, that sort of thing. I don't approve of abortion, but I don't think women who have abortions are evil; they have sinned, that's all.

Sacrificing your kid to idols is a good bit different. I don't think this comparison is fair to women who have aborted pregnancies because of aforementioned circumstances (not to mention health reasons). Abortion isn't right, but I don't think its fair to demonize the women who have them.

 

[Elijah674]

What is the difference between:

Jeremiah 32:35 (NIV) They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

And abortion?

No different in bottom/line. (James 2:10)
All churchs, + parents & professed ministers & Doctors are Rev. 18:4 PARTAKERS, and are found in Christs Words of Luke 12:47-48 at that 'present time' which will pay the worst penalty.

But what is new God asks? Eccl. 3:15 And it is not only this one sin that finds these ones the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH of Rev.17:1-5, but their teachings to cause todays ones & theirself to DIE THE FATAL SECOND DEATH.

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

I think abortion is usually the result of unfortunate circumstances. A woman isn't emotionally ready to have a kid, she's in school, she doesn't have the funds, a kid would interfere with her work, she's in a bad relationship, that sort of thing. I don't approve of abortion, but I don't think women who have abortions are evil; they have sinned, that's all.

Sacrificing your kid to idols is a good bit different. I don't think this comparison is fair to women who have aborted pregnancies because of aforementioned circumstances (not to mention health reasons). Abortion isn't right, but I don't think its fair to demonize the women who have them.

any murderer can repent. just because its legal doesnt mean that they didnt kill the child. hitler wasnt evil,just had some issues that's all, he sinned.

lets not forget that abortion in general is just that killing.

 

[reba]

Sacrificing your kid to idols is a good bit different. I don't think this comparison is fair to women who have aborted pregnancies because of aforementioned circumstances (not to mention health reasons). Abortion isn't right, but I don't think its fair to demonize the women who have them.

Empowered, The idol is one of self.

I agree not to demonize the women but only sorta. Some have many abortions. Some young girls have been so lied to they do not grasp tell it is too late. Yes we are all sinners. My complaint is not against the girl but against society for teaching the killing of the unborn is OK.

My complaint is against "THEM" the them who will take ones daughter from school to have an abortion hiding this from the parents.

The them who teach it is a right to kill the unwanted child

The them who support abortion via funds or votes.

The them who will stand and slap God in the face for His creation.

 

[craigmn3]

I think abortion is usually the result of unfortunate circumstances. A woman isn't emotionally ready to have a kid, she's in school, she doesn't have the funds, a kid would interfere with her work, she's in a bad relationship, that sort of thing. I don't approve of abortion, but I don't think women who have abortions are evil; they have sinned, that's all.

Not to be the insensitive hardliner here.....okay I will be the insensitive hardliner.
what is this "woman" doing having sex? By all means murder the child because it gets in the way of her work.

You want to get rid of abortion, keep your pants zipped. And about rape and life of the mother: the child, who is also human, did nothing to deserve death/


To the Question :The only difference is which side of the womb the child is on

 

[WIP]

I don't approve of abortion, but I don't think women who have abortions are evil; they have sinned, that's all.

I'm not trying to be insulting and I think I realize what you mean here but I can't help but ask, "That's all?"

 

[Pizzaguy]

I think abortion is usually the result of unfortunate circumstances. A woman isn't emotionally ready to have a kid, she's in school, she doesn't have the funds, a kid would interfere with her work, she's in a bad relationship, that sort of thing. I don't approve of abortion, but I don't think women who have abortions are evil; they have sinned, that's all.

Sacrificing your kid to idols is a good bit different. I don't think this comparison is fair to women who have aborted pregnancies because of aforementioned circumstances (not to mention health reasons). Abortion isn't right, but I don't think its fair to demonize the women who have them.

Not sure I can go along with you here. To set out to kill/abort/terminate/destroy a human conceived and developing in the womb seems kinda evil to ME.

And I don't care what the circumstances are - the circumstances are of her own making, are they not? We all know what sex leads to, don't we?

I sure don't want to be a hard-liner, but still...

 

[handy]

My daughter got off the bus today with some distressing news...4th day of school and already one of her friends is anxiously awaiting her period, she's very afraid that she's pregnant...16 years old. The first thing my daughter (who is 14) assured me was that "She was practicing safe sex". The girl was on birth control and she and her boyfriend (also 16) used condoms for ssd protection. Until the time they didn't. Now she's late for her period and is waiting to see if her life will be forever altered.

But, here's the thing...she and her friends, including Viola, already discussed abortion and she was emphatic that she would never abort the baby. I'm happy to say that the other girls privy to the conversation were all in agreement that there is no way she should do such a thing. They talked over her putting the baby up for adoption if she is pregnant and her boyfriend doesn't want to help her with the baby or keeping the baby and being a teen mom with all the serious consequences, not the least of which would be how to provide for the baby as her parents aren't exactly wealthy.

I know each girl that was privy to that conversation, they've been at sleep-overs at our house...all these girls are between 14 and 16 years of age...

...and they all know that aborting this baby would be an evil thing to do.

I've told Viola that if the girl winds up being pregnant and needs an adult to talk things over with before talking to her parents, I'll certainly help her out...and I told Viola to assure her that she's not alone, nor without resources...we can get her through this, whatever her decision is.

But, here is a girl, who is a decent kid...she really is. She's smart, good student, will go out of her way to help someone in need...just a wonderful girl...and she would be the "poster child" so to speak for abortion...young, lower-middle class family with little financial resources, too young to be a parent...

...and yet she herself has already been the first to say that she would never, ever kill this baby.

When we were at the school counselor's office last Wednesday, getting Viola's schedule, plastered all over the walls were "safe haven" posters explaining that if a girl has a baby and doesn't know what to do, she can drop the baby off at any police station, hospital, fire station or court house...no questions asked. The same posters were at the school that they went to last year and I'd be willing to guess that every school counselor's office in every school across this country has the same thing as well as information on what to do if faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

There are so many options available to girls and women these days. First of all the horror and stigma that used to be associated with out of wedlock babies is gone...there are a myriad of adoption resources that will basically ensure that the birth mother will have no financial hardship if she has the baby and gives it over to parents. There are plenty of laws in place to see to it that the father of the baby will be legally responsible for his share of the costs and plenty of state and federal programs to give financial aid as well.

Add to this, we no longer have the ignorance there once was regarding the unborn. When I was really young, there was this kind of perception that a baby wasn't really "alive" until it gasped that first breath...but we now know much better.

The heathens that sacrificed their children to Molek did so out of ignorance and a life-long brainwashing that such a horrific act was good for the whole of society...that a terrible god would wreak vengeance and cause famine and death if it wasn't done.

The Israelite knew better and God called them on their evil for participating in such a barbaric practice. The women and girls of today also know better and if they abort their baby, when there are so many other options available...then yes, that is evil as well.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I agree that abortion is wrong. I think what I was getting at is that people's behavior is often a result of larger forces--society, the economy, etc. I think its worth noting that many European countries, which aren't exactly known for strict morality regarding sexuality, have lower abortion rates than the US. My guess is that social programs make it possible for a woman with an unwanted pregnancy to have the kid. I don't think external forces make evil OK, but I do think they help explain social trends.

Also, to be honest, as a celibate ex-gay male, I feel really awkward being too harsh about abortion; I'm not involved in the reproductive process in any capacity, so I try to lean more towards compassion and understanding than condemnation.

And, handy--that's an interesting story. I'm really glad the young woman has decided that abortion isn't an option for her.

 

[handy]

I think what I was getting at is that people's behavior is often a result of larger forces--society, the economy, etc.

Not trying to be argumentative, I think we're on the same page here...

But, I was thinking about this...that the larger forces of society, the economy, peer pressure, religious issues...they all come into effect when we think of the Phoenicians and their horrible sacrifices to Moloch. It wasn't as if the parents there didn't want their children...I can only imagine the suffering of mothers as their babies were taken away. The reason why they did so was because they sincerely believed that if they didn't the god would take vengeance upon them and not bless them with crops...no crops, no food...no food, mass starvation.

Their motives were not as selfish as the motives of a woman getting an abortion.

 

[reba]

Empowered, Do you think /feel you have the right to harshly state/believe etc that murder is wrong. The age of the victim does not change the crime.

I have held the hands of a few girls who have abortion horror stories. The pain they live with. Often in abortion there is more then just one victim.

 

[Christ_empowered]

handy--another insightful post. I think sometimes I get so sucked into viewing people as "victims" of larger forces that I forget that God created us as moral agents with free will and responsibility for our actions. I honestly never thought about how terrifying it must have been to be indoctrinated into a false religion that demanded sacrifice of those nearest and dearest to you.

reba--I think its easier for me to view what the law would call murder as murder than for me to see abortion as murder because abortion is so medicalized. Its a "procedure," done by doctors in clinics. I know it doesn't actually make a difference, but I have to admit it makes it harder for me to call it "murder" at some level.

 

[Elijah674]

handy--another insightful post. I think sometimes I get so sucked into viewing people as "victims" of larger forces that I forget that God created us as moral agents with free will and responsibility for our actions. I honestly never thought about how terrifying it must have been to be indoctrinated into a false religion that demanded sacrifice of those nearest and dearest to you.

reba--I think its easier for me to view what the law would call murder as murder than for me to see abortion as murder because abortion is so medicalized. Its a "procedure," done by doctors in clinics. I know it doesn't actually make a difference, but I have to admit it makes it harder for me to call it "murder" at some level.

I often wonder how we find forums telling us that it was [ALL FINISHED AT THE CROSS] and then find all of these comments of this law?? James 2:10

--Elijah

 

[reba]

Empowered, thank you for being so direct/honest.

 

[stovebolts]

What is the difference between:

Jeremiah 32:35 (NIV) They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

And abortion?

The way this was explained to me was like this.

Molek was a large (bronze?) statue with arms raised outward and slightly upward. The belly was opened up and inside the belly, a hot fire was stoked until the statue was cherry red, including the arm.

The worshipper would then take their child and place the child in the arms of Molek. Because of the way the arms were outreached (outward and upward), the child would roll down the cherry red arms and into the belly to be consumed by Molek.

There is a huge difference between offering a child to Molek and abortion. Namely this. First and foremost the child is outside the womb, and is being willfully offered to a diety in a very visable, and cruel manner. In the case of abortion, most abort because they do not want their child and the pain of the child is not seen by either the doctor or the mother. No screams are ever heard... In the case of Molek, you didn't have that choice, and many women lost thier children do to "religion".

I am not, repeat, NOT advocating abortion. Plainly speaking, I am against abortion and it sickens me.

 

[Levi]

What is the difference between:

Jeremiah 32:35 (NIV) They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

And abortion?

The difference imo is that the above fore mentioned people where doing this as a ritualistic rite in the name of appeasing or gaining power from a spiritual force. Where as today people have babies aborted purely for selfish reasons which result from the deception of the current 'reality' of daily life in this day and age.

Both are sin but there is a difference in the type of sin obviously.

Remembering that these people had enlightenment as to the reality and the nature of God, so therefore they knew that Molek was not the almighty, they were consorting with a spiritual being after finding out they could achieve gain.
This is why you will often read in the Bible that God considers worshiping of false gods the same as adultery and He is a 'jealous God'.

The act of killing their own children is a testament to the depraved nature of man and the pure callous disregard for all things good he can fall into.

It serves as a warning to us that there is an actual evil spiritual power at work in the fallen state of creation.

I like Hezekiah, he's one of my hero's! He burnt bones on the alters 'to defile them'
This act of Hezekiah proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a power operating here that needs to be proactively neutralized.

Most people in this day and age that turn to abortion are under deception and the establishment that profits from this evil act in most nations is also very close to the one and the same establishment that is charged with looking after health.

 

[Ashua]

The difference is those who sacrificed to baal were killing their children to honor their disgusting idol. Those who have abortion today do so to honor their disgusting selves in vainglorious magnification of the ego in place of God in the name of wanton hedonism.

I am pro-choice. A women has the right to choose to have sex. Once she lays down with a man, she has made her "choice" and so has he; let whosoever has sewn so reap the fruit of their deeds. And to those who love straw men relatively rare exceptions to rules, don't bother replying to this about rape. Rape is no excuse to open the floodgate of abortion on demand and even in cases of rape, two wrongs do not make a right. Let the raped woman give her child away if she cannot tolerate it. There are plenty of couples who would love to adopt.

 

[jasoncran]

The way this was explained to me was like this.

Molek was a large (bronze?) statue with arms raised outward and slightly upward. The belly was opened up and inside the belly, a hot fire was stoked until the statue was cherry red, including the arm.

The worshipper would then take their child and place the child in the arms of Molek. Because of the way the arms were outreached (outward and upward), the child would roll down the cherry red arms and into the belly to be consumed by Molek.

There is a huge difference between offering a child to Molek and abortion. Namely this. First and foremost the child is outside the womb, and is being willfully offered to a diety in a very visable, and cruel manner. In the case of abortion, most abort because they do not want their child and the pain of the child is not seen by either the doctor or the mother. No screams are ever heard... In the case of Molek, you didn't have that choice, and many women lost thier children do to "religion".

I am not, repeat, NOT advocating abortion. Plainly speaking, I am against abortion and it sickens me.

my wife hears the cries of her son(she didnt abort him, but he died to due misscarriage). i do think deep down inside the mothers of aborted children due hear that cry. otherwise why the regret, the depression etc?

 

[Levi]

my wife hears the cries of her son(she didnt abort him, but he died to due misscarriage). i do think deep down inside the mothers of aborted children due hear that cry. otherwise why the regret, the depression etc?

Of course they do. An aborted mothers body begins to lactate at around the delivery time. What more pungent a sign to a woman who has aborted her unborn child that she has done a wrong thing!

The most vile evil that comes out of this whole industry is that the doctors and the nurses who encourage women to go through with it know the facts and the stats yet they continue to lie for

Material gain.