Growth Comment on “The Church Age”

[netchaplain]

I do not hesitate to admit that there is much to learn for all (self included) who desire to know the division of the Church and Israel. I want to share a brief reply to the article “The Church Age” because many still have not understood the implications of Galatians 3:14. The blessing of redemption (v 3) through Abraham does not come to the generality of Israel, but to believing Israel, first (remnant of Israel), then the believing Gentile (Rom 1:16), making "one fold" (John 10:16).

To be included in the Church, which is the Body of Christ, faith in Christ must precede presence with Christ, and I believe Jesus addressed this in John 10:29 when He spoke to Thomas saying, "because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

The Lord Jesus was referring to believing in His resurrection, which presupposes belief in His incarnation (1 John 4:2, 3; 2 John 1:7), thus belief in these two events supplants the believer with salvation (Rom 10:9). The generality of Israel will not believe in the Lord Jesus and I believe the living unbelieving Jew who sees and believes in Christ during the Millennium is the one who is prophesied to become a "people of God" (Jer 31:31: Eze 36:27).

The Jews who believe before Jesus returns will be included with the Gentiles who believe (Church). To my present understanding, the Church is one fold comprised from believing Jews and Gentiles, which makes them “children of God”. The Millennium Jew (the living Jew who did not believe prior to seeing Christ), by way of the prophecies of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, will become the "people of God."

I will be eagerly awaiting replies and thanks ahead of time.

-NC

 

[gr8grace]

I believe your right on target NC.

Jesus Christ has three royal titles or Patents.

Royal title: Son Of God.... He is a sovereign king as part of the Trinity, possessing all
the attributes of divine essence.

Royal title: Son Of David..... Because of the virgin birth, our Lord was born Jewish royalty. The Physical,100% human and 100% deity King of the Jews.

Royal title: King of kings and Lord of lords, the bright morning star.

A King needs a royal family(children of God,the Church) and a royal people (Jews).

Ten days after the session, the Age of Israel was interrupted in
order to insert a new dispensation into history for the purpose of calling
out a royal family.

Some will say that, "Oh God needed a 'plan B' because He messed up?" That comes from people who are ignorant of mystery doctrine. The church was a mystery, but that has been revealed to us through Paul.

You do a terrific job NC. Keep posting this Mystery doctrine. There are a LOT of Christians who are starving for it.(me included)

, "because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.".....this is just a hint of the Great blessings the Church(His royal Family) will receive.

 

[netchaplain]

I believe your right on target NC.

Jesus Christ has three royal titles or Patents.

Royal title: Son Of God.... He is a sovereign king as part of the Trinity, possessing all
the attributes of divine essence.

Royal title: Son Of David..... Because of the virgin birth, our Lord was born Jewish royalty. The Physical,100% human and 100% deity King of the Jews.

Royal title: King of kings and Lord of lords, the bright morning star.

A King needs a royal family(children of God,the Church) and a royal people (Jews).

Ten days after the session, the Age of Israel was interrupted in
order to insert a new dispensation into history for the purpose of calling
out a royal family.

Some will say that, "Oh God needed a 'plan B' because He messed up?" That comes from people who are ignorant of mystery doctrine. The church was a mystery, but that has been revealed to us through Paul.

You do a terrific job NC. Keep posting this Mystery doctrine. There are a LOT of Christians who are starving for it.(me included)

, "because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.".....this is just a hint of the Great blessings the Church(His royal Family) will receive.

Thanks GG, and me to!

 

[Sinthesis]

What about the Millennium Gentile (the living Gentile who did not believe prior to seeing Christ)? Will they also become the "people of God"?

 

[netchaplain]

What about the Millennium Gentile (the living Gentile who did not believe prior to seeing Christ)? Will they also become the "people of God"?

Presently, that's an impasse-issue I'm also awaiting resolution. For now, since the Jer/Eze prophecies involve only the unbelieving Jews of Abraham's posterity, and the promise of inheriting the "new earth" is solely to them, their "new covenant" will not include Gentiles.

A concept I've been considering may concern the fact that since God chose to relate to them, it has resulted in the generality of the Jewish nation believing in God according to their historical Biblical teachings (something which is not a truism with the majority of mankind--world). They have a union with God (Father), but their absence of faith in the revealing of His Son has resulted in absence of fellowship with Him, which will be restored (as He always has) later, but their eternal state will not be blessed in the capacity of the believer.

The "New Covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-34 will be another (but not same as before), but eternal covenant between them and God. The "New Covenant" ("testament") in Christ's "blood" (Luke 22:20) is not a covenant between God and man, but between the Father and Son, where man is just a recipient of it. This is "the blood of the everlasting covenant," in Hebrews 13:20. I believe it contains an understanding, prior to creation, between our Father and our Lord Jesus that the Father would raise Him from the dead when He atoned for sin, thus restoring union and fellowship with man, which Adam and Eve affected.

I realize where Scripture is not clear, i.e. dispensation-doctrine which relates to Israel/Church distinctions, I consider my concepts more speculative that definite, thus always prepared to learn more truth.

 

[gr8grace]

What about the Millennium Gentile (the living Gentile who did not believe prior to seeing Christ)? Will they also become the "people of God"?

I believe they will become the people of God once they believe. The Church age ends with the Rapture.(the numbers are complete and the Family is complete)

As far as I can see there will still be gentile nations in the Millenium. Rev 19:15;Rev 20:8 And Israel once again has the responsibility of evangelizing the world. Isaiah 27:6

 

[netchaplain]

I believe they will become the people of God once they believe. The Church age ends with the Rapture.(the numbers are complete and the Family is complete)

As far as I can see there will still be gentile nations in the Millenium. Rev 19:15;Rev 20:8 And Israel once again has the responsibility of evangelizing the world. Isaiah 27:6

I agree, they will believe in Christ after they see Him and the Father puts His Spirit in them. Yes, the door to the Church will be closed at the advent of "the first resurrection" (Rev 20:4, 5), which will contain mostly who were Gentiles.

 

[jasoncran]

so Jesus removes "the church" to start another church? does anyone else besides synthesis see a problem with this?i am of the line of Abraham. most jews by the time of said trib may not even have any form of judiasm that is even close to what the bible says. they are going left to the left each day.the chassidics are the only consertive group besides the haredi in general.even these are to the left of what the bible teaches.

 

[gr8grace]

Hes not starting another Church. He is once again going to focus on His Royal people and once and for all establish His Royal people, the Jews. They will be in right relationship with their King in the end.

You are a believer in Christ Brother, you are His Royal family.

I think it goes back to the verse NC quoted. "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." What are those blessings? More than we can imagine!

I had a Pastor that once focused on this verse and these blessing for church age believers.

He said that Moses,Abraham, John the Baptist would trade places with the worst believer in the church age for those blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

yes he is. im a Hebrew. by saying jesus is lord as paul does who knew his tribe, and all those Hebrews then orally and recorded in the temple. they are all now per your doctrine where? with isreal or the church? remember the church starts at the cross or really when jesus comes to his ministry and all that believed then whether jew or gentile.
what is a Hebrew? if being of blood means something to god then tell me why paul says there is neither greek nor gentile, nor male or female but unrighteous and righteous to god?it was never about blood.it was about being called by god to a type of living that came from a man who was used by god to show man whom god was then completely revealed in jesus.to insuate that I must deny my Hebrew heritage by the promise to Abraham really dismisses your doctrine. what is the difference now when I say, I confess hamashiach yeshua now and then some other cranman in the millennium does the same?nothing! which jew is a jew to god these days?
1) a jew like albert Einstein , who didn't know much about the temple and died believing in a pantheistic god?
2) a jew like the chabad lubididivich(sp?) who formed the Chassidic movement of this time?
3) a gentile like a sgt I know that was adopted by jews and raised in the jewish consertive temple and has NO blood line to Abraham?these aren't common but it does happen
4) a jew who is like my family raised in the temple and in general remained a jew in faith
5) an atheistic jew who doesn't care nor believe in the YHWH but is a cultural jew and supports isreal. the founder of modern isreal almost fits this description. david ben gurion!

 

[netchaplain]

so Jesus removes "the church" to start another church? does anyone else besides synthesis see a problem with this?i am of the line of Abraham. most jews by the time of said trib may not even have any form of judiasm that is even close to what the bible says. they are going left to the left each day.the chassidics are the only consertive group besides the haredi in general.even these are to the left of what the bible teaches.

Hi JC - I appreciate your reply and comment, but I'm uncertain concerning your meaning "Jesus removes the church to start another".

The Church or Body of Christ did not begin until the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was given, "for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified (ascended - John 7:39). Jesus said He cannot send the Holy Spirit until He leaves (John 16:7). This is not the same as when Jesus "breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost" (John 20:22), which was just symbolic of what occurred to them at Pentecost.

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[jasoncran]

I disagree. where is the body and soul of the theif on the cross? he did follow the command of john 3:16? whom did he believe upon? jesus? what did jesus say. the tense is present perfect in the English.if he is with jesus in paradise(I wont go into what that is in Judaism),where is that when jesus is seen with the father at his right hand?yall also forget that the righteous gentiles ere Abraham will be where?the word used in thessalonains is saints. that is also found in the tanach.

 

[netchaplain]

Much of the confusion concerning Israel and Church distinctions comes from spiritualizing that the Church is the new Israel, which I'm sure many have been taught, but it is not Scriptural, and this is the very issue I attempt to address with some of these materials I share.

We should also realize that the doctrines within these truths are not salvation-essential, but are more spiritual-growth related.

 

[jasoncran]

you also forget that the chialism in johns day had the resurrection after the millennium. not before.per Justin martyr.

 

[jasoncran]

I also disagree with that. isreal isn't a land but a people. next isreal has commands in deutermony to teach the gentiles the torah. they were to go out and be the light. they never really did that.

despite ad 70 there has always been jews in the levant. the ashakenazi are the jews who left. they as a group didn't make the claim to isreal . the jews who owned land there did , who never left!

 

[netchaplain]

I disagree. where is the body and soul of the theif on the cross? he did follow the command of john 3:16? whom did he believe upon? jesus? what did jesus say. the tense is present perfect in the English.if he is with jesus in paradise(I wont go into what that is in Judaism),where is that when jesus is seen with the father at his right hand?yall also forget that the righteous gentiles ere Abraham will be where?the word used in thessalonains is saints. that is also found in the tanach.

Everyone from Adam until now who believed everything God taught them will be part of the Church, i.e. many of the ancient saints learned of and believed in Christ through the types and figures given to them by the prophets and the Scriptures. These are those who were obedient to God among Israel (who are part of the remnant of Israel - Rom 11:4), which I believe will also be in the Church.

 

[jasoncran]

ok so then if they are. and its all those faithful Hebrews and goy. why then does Christ come back to start another type of isreal? isreal in this context is defined being under the torah or washed in the blood. will this isreal?
1) follow the torah with the 613 positive and negative commands under the mosaic law?
2)or be under the blood of the cross?

i have had men tell me that these will be messianic jews. which are really Christians and mostly gentiles.

 

[gr8grace]

"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8

This is a literal promise and to a specific people.

 

[jasoncran]

"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8

This is a literal promise and to a specific people.

of which i am. yet this thread in its posts has said i deny that when i come to Christ. next. peter says the earth and all of creation is destroyed. if isreal is a physical land(jews even say this) and is destroyed then where is this promise then? jews today teach(my dad taught me) that the 7,000 year of creation the earth and all in it will be destroyed.the faithful jews will be in heaven forever with the heshem.this is called the isreal of heaven.

 

[jasoncran]

the arguments for the futurism of this is off. why? first off. jesus said when i return be ready for if you aren't in me. judgement at your death will occur. the parable of the wheat and tares is just that.he didn't say he would spare any jew at his return nor gentile. all will die. he is appearing to them without sin. them being the saved. if a jew nor gentile isn't saved he is where? damned. the verses that i use to support this are in one Corinthians, one thess, and also jude. "enoch spoke of these saying the LORD coming with this ten thousand thousand saints" when is that going to happen? ere the millennium or after?