Eternal Security of the Believer !

[felix]

Holiness is not a product of mans religious efforts or works.
This was rejected and condemned in the pharisee, and will not be accepted before the Lord. Holiness is a fruit of the righteousness of faith. It is a product of the "HOLY "Spirit, a life seperated unto God in the Spirit.
NOT BY POWER NOR BY MIGHT BUT BY MY SPIRIT SAITH THE LORD.

to be holy as He is holy, is to be conformed into His Image as by the Spirit of the Lord. Nothing of mans efforts will be accepted only that which comes from the Spirit of Grace is holy.
Now seeing how you have changed your doctrine over and over as your errors have been exposed, I do not predict that you will seek any place of truth in the scriptures or that you will repent of your unholy ways. I live and teach a level of holiness that no man can produce or attain. For nothing good dwells in any mans flesh and by the flesh, no man can please God.
For we are those who worship God in Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh, our ability is from God, our righteousness and holiness are from God.
For He "Christ" has been made unto us wisdom, righteousness and holiness, and as He is so are we in this world.

The more you fail to back your statement with scriptures the more you are getting deceived.

How is that a prophecy to Zerubbabel related to holiness? Can you please explain? Or are you trying to pull words here and there and fit your theory?
Zech 4:6 So he answered and said to me: " This [is] the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ' Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the LORD of hosts.


1Pet 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pet 1:14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance;
1Pet 1:15 but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct,
1Pet 1:16 because it is written, [ "Be holy, for I am holy."]

Peter asks us to "hope" for the grace that is to be brought at the revelation of Christ (during second coming). He is asking us to be obedient and holy in all our conduct.

Rev 22:11-12 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Christ Himself is asking everyone to be holy and righteous.

Rom 6:19 I speak in human [terms] because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members [as] slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness [leading] to [more] lawlessness, so now present your members [as] slaves [of] righteousness for holiness.

Paul is also asking to present your members to be slaves of righteousness for holiness.

 

[Mitspa]

No you haven't. Actually none was in the law.

Can you show me where is love your enemy in the law?
Can you show me where is lust called adultery and the punishment for it?
Can you show me where swearing is not allowed?

Please don't lie.

Again you seem like the blind man who wants to drive the car!
Where does this ability to live a "holy" life come from?
Is it in mans ability to produce "holiness" or is a product of the Spirit of God that dwells in the believer?

Of course it does not come from man, but from God!
So your just teacing a form of legalism and self-righteousness but you are trying to do it by the letter of the New Testament, because you now know that if you try to teach legalism from law, you will be exposed as you were in earlier post.

For we have been made able ministers of the NEW COVENANT, NOT OF THE LETTER BUT OF THE SPIRIT, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

For my friends in Christ, please notice the tactic changed after the issue of law was exposed? He went from a form of leagalism that drew from the law into a legalism that protected is deception by trying to use NT scripture. It is still legalism and has the effect of bringing believers into religious bondage.
This is not a simple fellow looking to debate, this is a well trained enemy of the gospel.

 

[Mitspa]

The more you fail to back your statement with scriptures the more you are getting deceived.

How is that a prophecy to Zerubbabel related to holiness? Can you please explain? Or are you trying to pull words here and there and fit your theory?
Zech 4:6 So he answered and said to me: " This [is] the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ' Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the LORD of hosts.


1Pet 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pet 1:14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance;
1Pet 1:15 but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct,
1Pet 1:16 because it is written, [ "Be holy, for I am holy."]

Peter asks us to "hope" for the grace that is to be brought at the revelation of Christ (during second coming). He is asking us to be obedient and holy in all our conduct.

Rev 22:11-12 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Christ Himself is asking everyone to be holy and righteous.

Rom 6:19 I speak in human [terms] because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members [as] slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness [leading] to [more] lawlessness, so now present your members [as] slaves [of] righteousness for holiness.

Paul is also asking to present your members to be slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Of course the OLD testament law, points to holiness by the law! lol

Just as Christ has made us righteous in spirit, He has made us holy in spirit, the flesh cannot produce holiness, holiness is a product of the righteousness of faith and life in the spirit.

So I accept those scriptures but you have no understanding of the terms you are trying to use.
I am not here to convince you, I am here to use you as an example to help others see the methods of false teachers.

You are doing very good, but because I have the Spirit of wisdom, I am doing much better! lol

 

[felix]

When Jesus was tested by the Pharisees He told them that lust is adultry commited in the heart. So how is hating anyone murder? ....Cain hated Abel.

Firstly, you should know the Bible before replying. Jesus wasn't tested by "Pharisees" at "sermon on the mount" when He said "lust is adultry commited in the heart" (please don't speak lies). If you don't know about it, it is better to keep your mouth shut.

I don't want you to give me scripture!!

Only shows how much you don't accept Scripture.

I want you to tell me some good deeds (good works) that you believe we must do to have eternal life. Can you name some?
I mowing your neighbor lawn...anything at all.
Can you do this? If you don't want to I will accept that but I will certainly wonder why you won't.

Yes, I certainly will. why not!

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
1John 2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Do the will of our Father in Heaven.

Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

1Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

1Thess 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
1Thess 5:15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
1Thess 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Thess 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Thess 5:18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

1Pet 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
1Pet 4:2 that he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

In summary, if you do not conformed to this world, abstained from sexual immorality, rendering evil for evil to anyone, always pursue what is good, rejoicing and praying always, giving thanks to God for everything, not living in flesh for lust, then you do the will of God our Father in Heaven.

I also know that you reject God because of the below verse:

1Thess 4:7-8 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects [this] does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

Remember: You will receive the promise "after" you have done the will of God not "before".

Heb 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

 

[felix]

Again you seem like the blind man who wants to drive the car!
Where does this ability to live a "holy" life come from?
Is it in mans ability to produce "holiness" or is a product of the Spirit of God that dwells in the believer?

Of course it does not come from man, but from God!
So your just teacing a form of legalism and self-righteousness but you are trying to do it by the letter of the New Testament, because you now know that if you try to teach legalism from law, you will be exposed as you were in earlier post.

For we have been made able ministers of the NEW COVENANT, NOT OF THE LETTER BUT OF THE SPIRIT, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

For my friends in Christ, please notice the tactic changed after the issue of law was exposed? He went from a form of leagalism that drew from the law into a legalism that protected is deception by trying to use NT scripture. It is still legalism and has the effect of bringing believers into religious bondage.
This is not a simple fellow looking to debate, this is a well trained enemy of the gospel.

I certainly know you reject God:

1Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
1Thess 4:4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1Thess 4:5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1Thess 4:6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord [is] the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified.
1Thess 4:7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.
1Thess 4:8 Therefore he who rejects [this] does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

 

[felix]

Of course the OLD testament law, points to holiness by the law! lol

Just as Christ has made us righteous in spirit, He has made us holy in spirit, the flesh cannot produce holiness, holiness is a product of the righteousness of faith and life in the spirit.

So I accept those scriptures but you have no understanding of the terms you are trying to use.
I am not here to convince you, I am here to use you as an example to help others see the methods of false teachers.

You are doing very good, but because I have the Spirit of wisdom, I am doing much better! lol

Back your statement using scripture. Also, please consider me as a Bible ignorant person and I am still learning the Bible. But I am not an idiot to believe everything you say without any reference in Scripture. So, please back your statements using Scripture and scripture only.

 

[Mitspa]

Back your statement using scripture. Also, please consider me as a Bible ignorant person and I am still learning the Bible. But I am not an idiot to believe everything you say without any reference in Scripture. So, please back your statements using Scripture and scripture only.

Well I will consider you that way, but I will post scripture as I think best, you may do what seems best to you. The scriptures I quote are well known to those I am speaking to.

 

[Mitspa]

I certainly know you reject God:

1Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
1Thess 4:4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1Thess 4:5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1Thess 4:6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord [is] the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified.
1Thess 4:7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.
1Thess 4:8 Therefore he who rejects [this] does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

Who is promoting such things? and again I ask you where does the ability to live holy come from? Verse 8 tells you!

All holiness comes from the indwelling Spirit and we walk in holiness as we walk in the spirit.

For if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. This truth is taught over and over in the epistles.

If you dont know where that scriptures is? look it up as I did when God taught me His Word.

 

[felix]

Well I will consider you that way, but I will post scripture as I think best, you may do what seems best to you. The scriptures I quote are well known to those I am speaking to.

Sorry, I am not familiar with those scripture you speak about. So, please quote them.

 

[felix]

Who is promoting such things? and again I ask you where does the ability to live holy come from? Verse 8 tells you!

All holiness comes from the indwelling Spirit and we walk in holiness as we walk in the spirit.

For if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. This truth is taught over and over in the epistles.

If you dont know where that scriptures is? look it up as I did when God taught me His Word.

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

con·vict
/kənˈvikt/
Verb
Declare (someone) to be guilty of a criminal offense by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law.

Sorry, Holy Spirit convicts someone of sin - not force anyone from going into sin. As I said, I don't know the scripture you are talking about.

 

[Deborah13]

Firstly, you should know the Bible before replying. Jesus wasn't tested by "Pharisees" at "sermon on the mount" when He said "lust is adultry commited in the heart" (please don't speak lies). If you don't know about it, it is better to keep your mouth shut.
Only shows how much you don't accept Scripture.
Yes, I certainly will. why not!

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.
1John 2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Do the will of our Father in Heaven.

Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

1Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

1Thess 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
1Thess 5:15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
1Thess 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Thess 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Thess 5:18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

1Pet 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
1Pet 4:2 that he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

In summary, if you do not conformed to this world, abstained from sexual immorality, rendering evil for evil to anyone, always pursue what is good, rejoicing and praying always, giving thanks to God for everything, not living in flesh for lust, then you do the will of God our Father in Heaven.

I also know that you reject God because of the below verse:

1Thess 4:7-8 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects [this] does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

Remember: You will receive the promise "after" you have done the will of God not "before".

Heb 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

You are correct it was the Sermon on the Mount so now I know that you have read it and know what it says. In a previous post you said Jesus never said that lust was adultery.
Can we go back to saving works now. What are some saving "good deeds, works" that a born again Christian must do that are not of the Law, order to be have eternal life?
If you wish to teach, guide, etc. give me some examples.

In answer to all your scriptures above I give you....
Matthew 22:37-40

King James Version (KJV)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 6:39

King James Version (KJV)

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So I have to accept that you are afraid to give me any examples of "good deed works" that we could or must do, such as being kind to your animals.

 

[Mitspa]

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

con·vict
/kənˈvikt/
Verb
Declare (someone) to be guilty of a criminal offense by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law.

Sorry, Holy Spirit convicts someone of sin - not force anyone from going into sin. As I said, I don't know the scripture you are talking about.

I have a whole thread on this issue, you might want to check it out? Why not post the scriptures after that one? that the Holy spirit convicts the WORLD of sin because they do not believe. The Holy spirit convicts you "the believer" of righteousness because I go the The Father and you see me no more. NO WHERE in the New Testament does the Holy Spirit convict a "believer" of sin.

More false doctrine!

 

[felix]

You are correct it was the Sermon on the Mount so now I know that you have read it and know what it says. In a previous post you said Jesus never said that lust was adultery.
Can we go back to saving works now. What are some saving "good deeds, works" that a born again Christian must do that are not of the Law, order to be have eternal life?
If you wish to teach, guide, etc. give me some examples.

In answer to all your scriptures above I give you....
Matthew 22:37-40

King James Version (KJV)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 6:39

King James Version (KJV)

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So I have to accept that you are afraid to give me any examples of "good deed works" that we could or must do, such as being kind to your animals.

1John 3:16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.
1John 3:17 But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

How ironic you take the will of God given to Christ as if it is given to you.

 

[felix]

I have a whole thread on this issue, you might want to check it out? Why not post the scriptures after that one? that the Holy spirit convicts the WORLD of sin because they do not believe. The Holy spirit convicts you "the believer" of righteousness because I go the The Father and you see me no more. NO WHERE in the New Testament does the Holy Spirit convict a "believer" of sin.

More false doctrine!

When did Holy Spirit came to dwell on an unbeliever to convict him to believe, when Scripture explicitly mentions that He convicts of "sin"?

Scripture please.. more garbage coming out of ditch.

John 16:9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Do you know the simple truth: People who "sin" in spite of knowing the truth, don't believe in Him?

Yes, you don't believe His words:
John 3:20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[Deborah13]

1John 3:16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.
1John 3:17 But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

How ironic you take the will of God given to Christ as if it is given to you.

How ironic you take the will of God given to Christ as if it is given to you.

Excuse me?

John 6:35-39

King James Version (KJV)

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[Guest]

EDITED

 

[felix]

How ironic you take the will of God given to Christ as if it is given to you.

Excuse me?

John 6:35-39

King James Version (KJV)

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

You are excused for not knowing what it means to "believe Him" when Christ explicitly mentions "deeds".

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light[/B] and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
John 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

 

[reba]

I do believe we need to cool off a bit.
So this thread will close for a " time out"


English, American English is not always the first language of all posters.. It can make a difference when we are discussing such fine hairs...