Eternal Security of the Believer !

[savedbygrace57]

That True Believers can loose their Salvation is one of the most God and Christ dishonoring doctrines that a man can utter ! Its nothing less than taking a shot at and discrediting the very Power of God [Blasphemy] which is keeping the Believer through Faith unto that Salvation that is ready to be revealed 1 Pet 1:5

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Now I am not referring to every false believer, but to all those believers in Christ who hath been begotten again unto a lively hope [Faith] by [not their freewill] the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

These have been begotten again ! Now this word begotten ins the greek word anagennao:

to produce again, be born again, born anew

metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

It is those who have been produced again, born anew. It also means to have been given one a Change of Mind, which is Repentance. The greek word used for Repentance is metanoia and means:

a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

So we can now see from scripture that a Change of Mind, Repentance is an effect of having been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, it cannot be made any plainer.

The word for begotten again is also translated born again in 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now these born again ones are being kept by the power of God through Faith ! And for what purpose are they being kept ? Unto Salvation ready to be revealed.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Kept by the Power of God through Faith !

Many who would pervert this text of scripture, attempt to make mans faith the cause of being kept, and so once a man looses faith, he is no longer kept ! What high handed mutiny against the Power of God !

Peter plainly sets forth that those born again are Kept by the Power of God through Faith, that is Faith is a product of the Power of God and it is being sustained by the Power of God. This is the same power by which one believes in the First place. The word power is the greek word dynamis and means:

strength power, ability

a) inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth

b) power for performing miracles

c) moral power and excellence of soul

d) the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth

e) power and resources arising from numbers

f) power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, hosts

Now we are speaking of Almighty God's Strength, Power and Ability here.

Now the same word Paul uses when saying that we believe according to the working of His Power, Eph 1:19

19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

So believing is a result of God's Strength being exerted, His Power. So the believer is kept a believer, no fear of apostasy, by the very Power of God.

Thats why it was written centuries before regarding the Blessings of the New Covenant Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

You see that is what a believer is, a recipient of the New Covenant Blessings conferred upon them as a result of the Death of Christ.

That Power of God keeps the Believer in Faith. The preposition dia also means with or in !

So the phrase could read 1Pet 1:5

5Who are kept by the power of God in or with faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The believer is kept by the power of God in Faith !

God's Power keeps them in the Place of Faith or God's Power Keeps them with a supply of Faith.

The Point being, The cause of being kept through Faith is God's Power ! And the Faith is not the cause of being kept by God's Power as those who wrest God's word would tell us.

 

[Webb]

As with yours, so many posts on the forum are to long for my desire and time to allow me to sit down and answer point by point. There is, however, sufficient scripture data to show your position to be radically flawed.

 

[Former Christian]

Savedbygrace57

Webb thinks you’re not worth answering. Perhaps he will be proven to be right. But I’ll answer you, being as the idea of the eternal security of the believer is the only one of the five points of Calvinism that I agree with. For different reasons than the Calvinist.


I don’t believe that anyone can bounce in and out of Christ like a yo-yo. Once in Christ we are in Christ for eternity. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvationâ€, but the faith is not our own faith. It is the faith of Christ. When we freely choose of our own free will to believe God, God puts us into Christ and there we stay, being kept by the power of God by the faith of Christ. Being born from above is the same as being put into Christ. We’re not strong enough to put ourselves in Christ, nor is sin strong enough, to take us out of Christ. If either we or sin were strong enough to take us out of Christ, then we would have to be rebaptized every time we bounced out of Christ, because the only state we could be in if we’re out of Christ is in Adam alone, where we started. Funny none of the ones who say we can lose our salvation claim we must be rebaptized. Is losing our salvation being outside of the saving grace of God in Christ or not?

And regarding sin, provision has been made for sin, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.†(1 John 2:1-2 KJV) Thus all we need to do once we’re in Christ is to confess our sins and move on with being conformed to the image of Christ “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.†(1 John 1:8-9 KJV)


The Greek word transliterated “Metanoia†means “to change the mindâ€. It is wrongly translated by the English word “repentâ€. Repent means, “feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin, feel regret or penitence about†(Oxford Dictionary). Christian Bible teachers add that it also means to turn form sin. The Greek word only means to change one’s mind. Has nothing to do with how it affects our ability to walk by the flesh or by the Spirit. Has nothing to do with whether we sin or not. Has nothing to do with having anything conformed or to living a new life. It refers to a change of mind toward God and what he reveals. That’s all. It is a starting point only. What happens after we repent is something else altogether.


“Now the same word Paul uses when saying that we believe according to the working of His Power, Eph 1:19
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,â€

Why interpret a verse that says one thing so that it says something else? It doesn’t say “we believe according to the working of His Powerâ€. The verse just before it says, “having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saintsâ€. (v. 18 KJV) It has to do with knowing the greatness of his power, not believing because of his power.


“The preposition dia also means with or in ! So the phrase could read 1Pet 1:5
5Who are kept by the power of God in or with faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.â€

Don’t make the same mistake as the English Bible translators from the KJV to the present. And the Bible grammarians who follow them. The Greek prepositions aren’t interchangeable nor synonymous. There are Greek prepositions that mean “in†and “withâ€. If you believe that the only authors of the Bible are men, then it doesn’t make any difference if you interpret or not. If you believe that ultimately it is God who is the author of the Bible and guided the human writers by the Holy Spirit, give him some credit for knowing what prepositions to use in order to make the text plain and clear. Using transliterations, “dia†means “throughâ€, “en†means “inâ€, “sun†means “with†in the sense of “along side ofâ€, “meta†means “with†in the sense of “in the midst ofâ€. God uses “dia†meaning “through†and that’s what he meant. We are kept by the power of God through faith. Christianity believes that the faith is our faith. But the faith is the faith of Christ. We are kept through the faith of Christ, ours not being sufficient to keep anything, even through.


“The Point being, The cause of being kept through Faith is God's Power ! And the Faith is not the cause of being kept by God's Power as thoe who wrest God's word would tell us.â€

I guess it’s according to whether or not you believe that it’s the faith of Christ that is being talked about. I believe that it is.

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

I showed earlier that the ones being kept by the Power of God through Faith in 1 Pet 1:5 are the same ones that had been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

I shared that this same word begotten is also used in this same chapter of 1 Pet in vs 23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This New Person has been born out of incorruptible seed, the word of God. This is the Person who believes in Christ, and this person,born of incorruptible seed, The Logos of God. This Person cannot sin according to John. 1 Jn 3:9

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now John says He that is born of God doth not commit sin ! This being born is the same word used in 1 Pet 1:3, 23 and here in 1 Jn 3:9 its in the perfect tense, meaning having once and for all in the past been born of God, never to be repeated again and its efficacy is into the present. This birth cannot terminate, for it's of an incorruptible seed that cannot die.

Also 1 Jn 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Its the same word born, begotten. The born again one Keepteth Himself as well. He sinneth not, nor does the wicked one toucheth him.

As stated in 1 Jn 3:9, God's seed remains in the born again one and so he cannot sin. He can never be lost.

Remember,the one being said that cannot loose their salvation has been born out of incorruptible seed. Thats saying a Good Tree cannot bring forth corrupt fruit Matt 7:

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[Jake]

Savedbygrace57

Webb thinks you’re not worth answering. Perhaps he will be proven to be right. But I’ll answer you, being as the idea of the eternal security of the believer is the only one of the five points of Calvinism that I agree with. For different reasons than the Calvinist.


I don’t believe that anyone can bounce in and out of Christ like a yo-yo. Once in Christ we are in Christ for eternity. We are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation”, but the faith is not our own faith. It is the faith of Christ. When we freely choose of our own free will to believe God, God puts us into Christ and there we stay, being kept by the power of God by the faith of Christ. Being born from above is the same as being put into Christ. We’re not strong enough to put ourselves in Christ, nor is sin strong enough, to take us out of Christ. If either we or sin were strong enough to take us out of Christ, then we would have to be rebaptized every time we bounced out of Christ, because the only state we could be in if we’re out of Christ is in Adam alone, where we started. Funny none of the ones who say we can lose our salvation claim we must be rebaptized. Is losing our salvation being outside of the saving grace of God in Christ or not?

And regarding sin, provision has been made for sin, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2 KJV) Thus all we need to do once we’re in Christ is to confess our sins and move on with being conformed to the image of Christ “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:8-9 KJV)


The Greek word transliterated “Metanoia” means “to change the mind”. It is wrongly translated by the English word “repent”. Repent means, “feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin, feel regret or penitence about” (Oxford Dictionary). Christian Bible teachers add that it also means to turn form sin. The Greek word only means to change one’s mind. Has nothing to do with how it affects our ability to walk by the flesh or by the Spirit. Has nothing to do with whether we sin or not. Has nothing to do with having anything conformed or to living a new life. It refers to a change of mind toward God and what he reveals. That’s all. It is a starting point only. What happens after we repent is something else altogether.


“Now the same word Paul uses when saying that we believe according to the working of His Power, Eph 1:19
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,”

Why interpret a verse that says one thing so that it says something else? It doesn’t say “we believe according to the working of His Power”. The verse just before it says, “having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints”. (v. 18 KJV) It has to do with knowing the greatness of his power, not believing because of his power.


“The preposition dia also means with or in ! So the phrase could read 1Pet 1:5
5Who are kept by the power of God in or with faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

Don’t make the same mistake as the English Bible translators from the KJV to the present. And the Bible grammarians who follow them. The Greek prepositions aren’t interchangeable nor synonymous. There are Greek prepositions that mean “in” and “with”. If you believe that the only authors of the Bible are men, then it doesn’t make any difference if you interpret or not. If you believe that ultimately it is God who is the author of the Bible and guided the human writers by the Holy Spirit, give him some credit for knowing what prepositions to use in order to make the text plain and clear. Using transliterations, “dia” means “through”, “en” means “in”, “sun” means “with” in the sense of “along side of”, “meta” means “with” in the sense of “in the midst of”. God uses “dia” meaning “through” and that’s what he meant. We are kept by the power of God through faith. Christianity believes that the faith is our faith. But the faith is the faith of Christ. We are kept through the faith of Christ, ours not being sufficient to keep anything, even through.


“The Point being, The cause of being kept through Faith is God's Power ! And the Faith is not the cause of being kept by God's Power as those who wrest God's word would tell us.”

I guess it’s according to whether or not you believe that it’s the faith of Christ that is being talked about. I believe that it is.

FC

It's not a yo-yo in and out of Christ issue, it's a process of sanctification for salvation. Be holy as your Father in heaven is holy, do you think anything unholy will get saved? We are invited into the race, that doesn't mean you are saved, we are to run with perseverance, running to win the race, for the prize, which is the full stature of Christ.

God doesn't move, but we do, and we can walk away from Him. The Israelities in the desert are there for us, as an example, and they left Him.

 

[Elijah674]

It's not a yo-yo in and out of Christ issue, it's a process of sanctification for salvation. Be holy as your Father in heaven is holy, do you think anything unholy will get saved? We are invited into the race, that doesn't mean you are saved, we are to run with perseverance, running to win the race, for the prize, which is the full stature of Christ.

God doesn't move, but we do, and we can walk away from Him. The Israelities in the desert are there for us, as an example, and they left Him.

Do you not think that there are many like a yo-yo before the required Born Life has taken place? And that is seen daily in professed Christian ones life of today??

But few are Born Again. But if so, it is then that Rom. 8:1 takes place & verse 14 follows. And 'i' do see your post as then, being accurate. And Heb. 12:4-8 does find these ones ALL Partakers (meaning being Justified at one starting point in their lives full surrender of Acts 5:32) and then 'some' becoming by free choice again Fatherless. This no doubt is where the word bastard originated in man's vocabulary.

But still proof that even the Born Again Christian can become an ex/Fatherless/Christian one, by 'their' free choice. See Dan. 12:4 last day increased knowledge & Hos. 4:6 for the 'rejectors' of increased Truth that could be rejected? 'I WILL REJECT THEE' is the Warning to all of us.


--Elijah

 

[Jake]

Do you not think that there are many like a yo-yo before the required Born Life has taken place? And that is seen daily in professed Christian ones life of today??

But few are Born Again. But if so, it is then that Rom. 8:1 takes place & verse 14 follows. And 'i' do see your post as then, being accurate. And Heb. 12:4-8 does find these ones ALL Partakers (meaning being Justified at one starting point in their lives full surrender of Acts 5:32) and then 'some' becoming by free choice again Fatherless. This no doubt is where the word bastard originated in man's vocabulary.

But still proof that even the Born Again Christian can become an ex/Fatherless/Christian one, by 'their' free choice. See Dan. 12:4 last day increased knowledge & Hos. 4:6 for the 'rejectors' of increased Truth that could be rejected? 'I WILL REJECT THEE' is the Warning to all of us.


--Elijah

That's why I brought up sanctification, yes, He can reject us, too, of course! We are to be holy and perfect, sanctified, obedient. Yet, we can also reject Him. We present ourselves as acceptable sacrifices to Him - are we acceptable? Some will hear - I knew you not.

I still do not believe it's a yo-yo affect, salvation is a process. As we mature and grow in our faith, we make less mistakes, we sin less and less, until there remains no more sin.

 

[Elijah674]

That's why I brought up sanctification, yes, He can reject us, too, of course! We are to be holy and perfect, sanctified, obedient. Yet, we can also reject Him. We present ourselves as acceptable sacrifices to Him - are we acceptable? Some will hear - I knew you not.

I still do not believe it's a yo-yo affect, salvation is a process. As we mature and grow in our faith, we make less mistakes, we sin less and less, until there remains no more sin.

Perhaps 'i' missed getting [my] point across? Before one is Born Again, it is then that the professed Christian is all over the place like a yo-yo is what was meant. My wife worked in the cash-office for Wal-Mart a number of years. These mostly Baptist girl's would huddle around telling jokes. And to not offend my wife they would tell her that she would not like the joke.

So this is what was meant, right or wrong, it seems to me that many here in the Bible Belt of S.C. are 'professedly' (new word?) in Christ & out of Christ as they choose.

And who am 'i' to know if they had ever been Born Again even? I never claim to do this of any person. Yet, Col. 1:23 has it..

'If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be [not moved away from the hope of the Gospel]..' this was my point. Many seem to be in & out rather frequently? And Rev. 3:16 even finds ones LOVE becoming an issue as well! Hot, Cold, Lukewarm.

--Elijah

 

[Jake]

Perhaps 'i' missed getting [my] point across? Before one is Born Again, it is then that the professed Christian is all over the place like a yo-yo is what was meant. My wife worked in the cash-office for Wal-Mart a number of years. These mostly Baptist girl's would huddle around telling jokes. And to not offend my wife they would tell her that she would not like the joke.

So this is what was meant, right or wrong, it seems to me that many here in the Bible Belt of S.C. are 'professedly' (new word?) in Christ & out of Christ as they choose.

And who am 'i' to know if they had ever been Born Again even? I never claim to do this of any person. Yet, Col. 1:23 has it..

'If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be [not moved away from the hope of the Gospel]..' this was my point. Many seem to be in & out rather frequently? And Rev. 3:16 even finds ones LOVE becoming an issue as well! Hot, Cold, Lukewarm.

--Elijah

I see your point now, yes, lots of lukewarm people. I saw this article written not too long ago and this teacher was talking about how people leaving the churches is not per say a bad thing, what's happening is the lukewarms are either getting really hot or they are becoming cold. So the lukewarms are disappearing, thus the low numbers in the pews.
At the end, a person either belongs to the Christ or the anti-christ.

 

[Elijah674]

I see your point now, yes, lots of lukewarm people. I saw this article written not too long ago and this teacher was talking about how people leaving the churches is not per say a bad thing, what's happening is the lukewarms are either getting really hot or they are becoming cold. So the lukewarms are disappearing, thus the low numbers in the pews.

At the end, a person either belongs to the Christ or the anti-christ.

I find Israel of old at Christ's time on earth having a falling away. Midnight Matt. 25 Cry. Anyway, when we hear of 2 Thess. 2:1-3's falling away before Christ comes and then finding old Israel staying put, it begs the question.. who fell away? And we think of these ones of Rev. 18:4 leaving churchs & then being called offshoots, but which are the ones who fell away? (does that make sense to you?)

In other words. The disciples were sent back into THE CHURCH in Matt. 10:5-6 & the CHURCH stayed put. And in verse 15 we see that whoever would not hear their message (your words) would be judged fare worse than S.& G. in the judgement.

And from here we see Acts start up with the extended (New) church from this remnant. And to have 'SECURITY' it was eternal only as one FOLLOWED CHRIST OUT as in Matt. 25:6

So in this sense, this [Parable] found Christ already OUTSIDE (Matt. 23:38) & the ex/fold stayed put with the 'SHUT DOOR' in verse 10. It surely has an identity of the Ark Door being shut in Noah's day. Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15

---Elijah

 

[Webb]

Brief note on Matt.10:5,6 as mentioned above. The church did not exist at that time and in Matt.16:18 it was yet to be built. So said the Christ.

 

[Jake]

I find Israel of old at Christ's time on earth having a falling away. Midnight Matt. 25 Cry. Anyway, when we hear of 2 Thess. 2:1-3's falling away before Christ comes and then finding old Israel staying put, it begs the question.. who fell away? And we think of these ones of Rev. 18:4 leaving churchs & then being called offshoots, but which are the ones who fell away? (does that make sense to you?)

In other words. The disciples were sent back into THE CHURCH in Matt. 10:5-6 & the CHURCH stayed put. And in verse 15 we see that whoever would not hear their message (your words) would be judged fare worse than S.& G. in the judgement.

And from here we see Acts start up with the extended (New) church from this remnant. And to have 'SECURITY' it was eternal only as one FOLLOWED CHRIST OUT as in Matt. 25:6

So in this sense, this [Parable] found Christ already OUTSIDE (Matt. 23:38) & the ex/fold stayed put with the 'SHUT DOOR' in verse 10. It surely has an identity of the Ark Door being shut in Noah's day. Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15

---Elijah

I see your point, but I would also say Israel did not stay put, they are apostate right now. I agree too, the falling away started right away!

 

[Elijah674]

Originally Posted by Elijah674

I find Israel of old at Christ's time on earth having a falling away. Midnight Matt. 25 Cry. Anyway, when we hear of 2 Thess. 2:1-3's falling away before Christ comes and then finding old Israel staying put, it begs the question.. who fell away? And we think of these ones of Rev. 18:4 leaving churchs & then being called offshoots, but which are the ones who fell away? (does that make sense to you?)

In other words. The disciples were sent back into THE CHURCH in Matt. 10:5-6 & the CHURCH stayed put. And in verse 15 we see that whoever would not hear their message (your words) would be judged fare worse than S.& G. in the judgement.

And from here we see Acts start up with the extended (New) church from this remnant. And to have 'SECURITY' it was eternal only as one FOLLOWED CHRIST OUT as in Matt. 25:6

So in this sense, this [Parable] found Christ already OUTSIDE (Matt. 23:38) & the ex/fold stayed put with the 'SHUT DOOR' in verse 10. It surely has an identity of the Ark Door being shut in Noah's day. Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15

---Elijah


Rockie here:
I see your point, but I would also say Israel did not stay put, they are apostate right now. I agree too, the falling away started right away!


Me again:
'i' don't think that I made my point clear? Try this? Christ documents that He explained His Parables to His diciples. OK?
(if one needs the verses just tell me to post them forum)
So then we need to find where He explains Matt. 25??

Read the Matt. 25:1-12 verses & then start in Matt. 10:5-6 on for this Truth. And also remember the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 Documentation for the Today's repeat Truth.

And I agree that Israel + all the Rev. 17:1-5 ones are apostate right now.

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Cor 2:5 collaborates 1 Pet 1:5

That Power of God keeps the Believer in Faith. The preposition dia also means with or in !

So the phrase could read 1Pet 1:5

5Who are kept by the power of God in or with faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The believer is kept by the power of God in Faith !

God's Power keeps them in the Place of Faith or God's Power Keeps them with a supply of Faith.

The Point being, The cause of being kept through Faith is God's Power !

God's Power which is the Holy Ghost, produces the Faith. This is seen also in 1 Cor 2:5,4

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So Faith is produced [fruit] in the Heart by the Power of thew Holy Spirit !

Paul depended upon the Power of the Holy Spirit to make the Gospel message clear to them vs 4

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

So Faith resulted as a by product of the Spirit's Power in them.

So Faith in Christ and the Doctrines of His Gospel does not depend on persuasive speech and mens ability, but upon the Power of God.

Remember how Paul warned the gentiles to not become High Minded, because they stand by Faith ? Rom 11:20

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

That statement there should warn us that Faith is not of ourselves, but something God produces in us, so why be High Minded about it, as if it is something we do of ourselves ? Its of the Power of God. Paul goes on to say that standing is by God's ability Rom 14:4

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Thats right, God is able to make us stand by Faith as in Rom 11:20

And, So the saved are kept by the Power of God through Faith. Faith stands because of God's ability or Power !

I don't think it can be made more clearer That God's Power[The Holy Spirit] keeps the believer in Faith...

BTW, those of us who believe we stand by Faith and that Faith is of ourselves, then we are guilty of being High Minded, that which paul warned the gentile believers of in Rom 11:20, That word Highminded means to be proud !

 

[Webb]

A brief note on Matt.10:5,6 above. The church was not in existence at that time. In Matt.16:18 it is still future.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ Himself will confirm believer until the End !

Another reason for Eternal Security of the Believer, is because Christ Himself will confirm His Sheep until the end or His coming. This is especially a great blessing to those believers living right before He comes at the end of the tribulation, where it says that he that endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt 24:13-14

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Now look at 1 Cor 1:6-8

6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word end here is the greek word telos and means:
end

a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)

b) the end

Same word used in Matt 24: 13-14

Now in the 1 Cor 1:8 verse " who shall also confirm you unto the end, this is a future tense indicative.meaning it will occur. Now who is doing the confirming unto the end ? Its Christ, so if it doesn't happen as it is stated, Christ will have Failed. It is His responsibility to see to it.

 

[FrustratedForumer]

As with yours, so many posts on the forum are to long for my desire and time to allow me to sit down and answer point by point. There is, however, sufficient scripture data to show your position to be radically flawed.

By all means share it with us!

 

[Webb]

As stated, I seldom read long posts and try not to write them. Private studies are better in my estimation. However, I shall point out one passage Saved by grace gave above: Matt.24:13: "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Note the word "endure". The converse is if he does not "endure to the end" he will not be saved. He cited I Cor.1:8. It must be obvious He "confirms" only so long as one "endures to the end."

 

[FrustratedForumer]

One can not simply pick one verse like that, it must be put in context with the whole scripture, as scripture does not contradict itself.