Forum Poll

[Brock]

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus said it's impossible for rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven . Not with difficulty but IMPOSSIBLE. I believe the reason being verse Mathew 6:24
24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Please provide the actual verse that says it's impossible for rich ment oenter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yet the writer of Hebrew assures it would be impossible for many who have fallen away....Hebrews 6:6

The question one must answer is this: impossible for what?

To regain salvation? No, the Bible doesn't say that.

So impossible for or to what?

The Bible says impossible to "be brought back to repentance".

Repentance is a state of mind. Illustrated by the prodigal son. Not a state of salvation. They are different.

Furthermore, it seems the fact that those who have received the gift of eternal life shall never perish keeps being missed.

Well, let's not miss it anymore.

Jesus guarantees that those He gives eternal life will never perish. John 10:28

This is the clearest statement of eternal security in Scripture.

 

[stovebolts]

I wish to thank this platform, our website , for giving an opportunity to everyone to ask questions and share their views , backed by verses of course. It is edifying me immensely, and I hope it encourages and edifies others as well. I believe many false teachers have emerged on the horizon , teaching false doctrine , and websites like this enables us to ask questions
Something we are not (mostly)able to do while listening to Church teachers/ preachers. It's a one way street , which restricts edification.

You are welcome. We strive to moderate behavior, not content as to facilitate an environment where our members can grow in the word, while respecting others views through disagreements.

reba WIP

 

[reba]

I wish to thank this platform, our website , for giving an opportunity to everyone to ask questions and share their views , backed by verses of course. It is edifying me immensely, and I hope it encourages and edifies others as well. I believe many false teachers have emerged on the horizon , teaching false doctrine , and websites like this enables us to ask questions
Something we are not (mostly)able to do while listening to Church teachers/ preachers. It's a one way street , which restricts edification.

Where is the "LIKE" button

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Where is the "LIKE" button

We all have like buttons.
Maybe it's just you.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think the poll is confusing.
And until JLB straightens it out, it will stay confusing.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Where is the "LIKE" button

Hahaha. I really don't know why it's not showing up . But thank you very much

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

The question one must answer is this: impossible for what?

To regain salvation? No, the Bible doesn't say that.

So impossible for or to what?

The Bible says impossible to "be brought back to repentance".

Repentance is a state of mind. Illustrated by the prodigal son. Not a state of salvation. They are different.

Furthermore, it seems the fact that those who have received the gift of eternal life shall never perish keeps being missed.

Well, let's not miss it anymore.

Jesus guarantees that those He gives eternal life will never perish. John 10:28

This is the clearest statement of eternal security in Scripture.

It's read with verse Hebrews 6:5 so it's Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
The Hebrews writer makes it crystal clear that it's impossible for those believers who have fallen away to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
And using analogy of a field the Hebrew writer sounds a clear warning that such fields WILL be burned in the end. Also Jesus issues a similar warning in Matthew 7: 21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
At the end I believe dear FG , no matter how clear the words of Christ or other scripture are , it appears you are fixated on one particular interpretation and not open to anything beyond OSAS. Anyway it's always a pleasure to hear different points of views, some correct some perhaps otherwise . Good for edification
I believe the Lord's great commission Matthew 28: 18-20 , clearly spells out WHAT ALL are needed for salvation :
1) Faith
2) Baptism
3) Obedience
All above play a decisive role in human salvation.
The other pertinent point I believe is Christ's dislike for those who seek salvation . I believe we the believers should seek to follow Him and His righteousness and love rather than focusing on salvation , which is nobody's call except Christ's and Father God . For nobody (including apostles Paul ) knows except Lord n God according to the book of Revelation. Coveting salvation is not profitable if we take into consideration the caveat of Jesus Christ in the following verse
"He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (John 12:25). My apologies despite my not wanting, much of the words came out in bold script. I request you to forgive me for that.

 

[gr8grace3]

Absolutely. A born-again person is sealed,bought and no longer their own. Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 7:13 and 1 Cor 6:19.

And we are told that~~We will NEVER perish. John 10:28~~With no caveats.

For the born-again person who lives in rebellion and has put His Grace to the test there is discipline and harsh discipline possible for that believer. 2 Pet 2:20

And possibly a "saved as if through fire" scenario for that believer in the end. Very unpleasant indeed. 1 Cor 3:15

Salvation is based upon a non-meritorious trust placed in the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The OBJECT(Christ) of our faith saves us, not our faith.~~If we are faithless and rebellious after salvation, HE REMAINS faithful. 2 Tim 2:13. We are His body and He cannot deny Himself.

 

[FreeGrace]

Absolutely. A born-again person is sealed,bought and no longer their own. Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 7:13 and 1 Cor 6:19.

And we are told that~~We will NEVER perish. John 10:28~~With no caveats.

For the born-again person who lives in rebellion and has put His Grace to the test there is discipline and harsh discipline possible for that believer. 2 Pet 2:20

And possibly a "saved as if through fire" scenario for that believer in the end. Very unpleasant indeed. 1 Cor 3:15

Salvation is based upon a non-meritorious trust placed in the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The OBJECT(Christ) of our faith saves us, not our faith.~~If we are faithless and rebellious after salvation, HE REMAINS faithful. 2 Tim 2:13. We are His body and He cannot deny Himself.

<LIKE, LIKE, LIKE>

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Please provide the actual verse that says it's impossible for rich men to enter the kingdom of heaven.

FG my simple question to you is this? Can a camel Enter through the eye of a needle? That was the analogy Christ used -----CAMEL through EYE of the needle. Is IT possible? The answer is NO. the day a camel is able to enter through the eye of a needle, rich men will be saved. Not till then. I'm absolutely shocked that people are twisting even straightforward analogies of Christ. Jesus clearly meant its IMPOSSIBLE. How else can a camel enter through eye of a needle FG?

 

[Jim Parker]

FG my simple question to you is this? Can a camel Enter through the eye of a needle? That was the analogy Christ used -----CAMEL through EYE of the needle. Is IT possible? The answer is NO. the day a camel is able to enter through the eye of a needle, rich men will be saved. Not till then. I'm absolutely shocked that people are twisting even straightforward analogies of Christ. Jesus clearly meant its IMPOSSIBLE. How else can a camel enter through eye of a needle FG?

Don't stop reading there!
the next two verses:
Mat 19:25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible,
but with God all things are possible.”

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Don't stop reading there!
the next two verses:
Mat 19:25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible,
but with God all things are possible.”

Yes I agree with God all things are possible
Can YOU answer why Jesus didn't ask the Rich man to BELIEVE in Him rather than asking him to OBEY?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I will provide the answer. Jesus spoke the TRUTH. Easy believism ( like majority of Christian Churches teach nowadays) would not have helped the rich man enter heaven else Christ would have told him. But He didn't, BECAUSE no one can enter the kingdom of heaven UNLESSS we do the WILL OF GOD.
If I can summarize the message of Bible ---- here is what it is
1) We are repeatedly exhorted by God and the Lord to DO GOD's WILL over ours ( Matthew 7:21) as Jesus throughout His ministry did.
2) LOVE ONE AND LOVE ALL -
Matthew 37 -40
“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c This is the first and greatest commandment. 3
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Jesus went on to add in John 13:34
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Thus the story of God's love and redemption ( Bible) starts and ends in LOVE....

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes I agree with God all things are possible
Can YOU answer why Jesus didn't ask the Rich man to BELIEVE in Him rather than asking him to OBEY?

To believe is to obey.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

no, a believer can be living in sin. believing is NOT obeying. please do not mix two vastly different things.

 

[JohnDB]

Guys, please post scriptural support for your assertions.

 

[FreeGrace]

FG my simple question to you is this? Can a camel Enter through the eye of a needle? That was the analogy Christ used -----CAMEL through EYE of the needle. Is IT possible? The answer is NO.

I believe this is a misreading of what Jesus actually said and was comparing. So let's look at the text, of which there are 3:

Matt 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25 They all say the exact same thing

" Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

First, we must understand what "eye of a needle" refers to. It does NOT refer to a sewing needle.

a proverbial expression, denoting literally a thing impossible, but figuratively a thing very difficult.
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Second, Jesus never said anything about being "impossible", but rather, a comparison of what was "easier".

the day a camel is able to enter through the eye of a needle, rich men will be saved. Not till then.

No, Jesus never said any such thing.

I'm absolutely shocked that people are twisting even straightforward analogies of Christ. Jesus clearly meant its IMPOSSIBLE. How else can a camel enter through eye of a needle FG?

There are many believers among the rich. Those unfamiliar with Gideons International, the organization whose sole goal is to share the gospel with men, women and children through personal witnessing and giving away Bibles and New Testaments all over the world, don't know that those who travel the world on behalf of the Gideons do so at their own expense. The organization was founded by businessmen and that is one of the requirements for membership.

So, there are MANY rich men who ARE believers and very dedicated to spreading the gospel.

Edited by JohnDB

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes I agree with God all things are possible
Can YOU answer why Jesus didn't ask the Rich man to BELIEVE in Him rather than asking him to OBEY?

Yes, let us think about it.

Jesus was pointing out that the man wasn't keeping all the commandments. And only keeping most of them isn't good enough. So the man wasn't ready to hear "believe on Me". He needed to know WHY he needed to put his trust in the Messiah.

As it was, he thought he was good enough to enter heaven. But Jesus showed him just how wrong he was. And, what was the result?

v.22 - When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

There it is. He found out that he wasn't perfect. Not by a long shot.