"I'm Christian, unless you're gay"

[jasoncran]

john 3:16,

for god so Loved the world that he gave his only beggoten son so that none should perish but have life evelasting.

god died for us while we were yet sinners, because god FIRST LOVED US we therefore can love.

hmm it seems that god does love the sinner in offering the way out of that sin. sin is a sickness that he has dealt with and reaches out with the cure. god didnt have to even save any of us. he wanted to because he loves us. its called mercy and grace.

 

[Pizzaguy]

john 3:16,

for god so Loved the world that he gave his only beggoten son so that none should perish but have life evelasting.

god died for us while we were yet sinners, because god FIRST LOVED US we therefore can love.

hmm it seems that god does love the sinner....

Of course He loves the sinner.

And we are called to do the same, no matter how hard it is at times.

 

[Hitch]

john 3:16,

for god so Loved the world that he gave his only beggoten son so that none should perish but have life evelasting.

god died for us while we were yet sinners, because god FIRST LOVED US we therefore can love.

hmm it seems that god does love the sinner in offering the way out of that sin. sin is a sickness that he has dealt with and reaches out with the cure. god didnt have to even save any of us. he wanted to because he loves us. its called mercy and grace.

God in loving kindness towards his own ,while they were in sin, in light of his absolute holiness and in order to make reconciliation possible required a perfect sacrifice. Since none could answer he sent of himself, his only Son ,Jesus , as it were necessary that blood be shed, to endure the cross.
Jesus ,being the Lamb without spot or wrinkle, , having taken the curse due his people upon himself, was then raised up on the third day , thereby enabling all who believe to gain life eternal.
​

 

[jasoncran]

hitch that was directed at felix, god hates the sin but he did love the sinner to die for him. that said the sinner must accept that he is a sinner and repent.

 

[Hitch]

hitch that was directed at felix, god hates the sin but he did love the sinner to die for him. that said the sinner must accept that he is a sinner and repent.

That Christ died for sinners is a half truth. Those he would call his own were in sin needing a Savior. That is the message of J3;16 it has been missused as a general evangelic call.

 

[jasoncran]

That Christ died for sinners is a half truth. Those he would call his own were in sin needing a Savior. That is the message of J3;16 it has been missused as a general evangelic call.

i dont read the bible with a calvanistic bias. my problem with eternal security is that it cant logically maneuver around that verse spoken by peter. where he said its better not to have known the lord...

 

[Hitch]

i dont read the bible with a calvanistic bias. my problem with eternal security is that it cant logically maneuver around that verse spoken by peter. where he said its better not to have known the lord...

And by default you read with an Arminian bias.

Certainly it would have been better for Judas to never have been born, better for Judas to never have walked with Jesus.

Obviously it was better for GOD to involve Judas in exactly the manner he did .

 

[Pizzaguy]

That Christ died for sinners is a half truth. Those he would call his own were in sin needing a Savior. That is the message of J3;16 it has been missused as a general evangelic call.

So does that mean that there is NO "general evangelic call"?

 

[jasoncran]

And by default you read with an Arminian bias.

Certainly it would have been better for Judas to never have been born, better for Judas to never have walked with Jesus.

Obviously it was better for GOD to involve Judas in exactly the manner he did .

actually i dont fully agree with either, both have merits. yes god knew judas raised him up but it does mean that if god made judas to sin then he himself is responsible for that sin.

calvinists hate that but if god knew he would sin then did nothing offer him away out of that sin they why did judas hear the gospel? he offered him the chance to repent and also the chance for pharoah to repent and isreal then judged them all when they hardened their heart. soteriology does wonders.

 

[Hitch]

So does that mean that there is NO "general evangelic call"?

It means that John 3;16 has been missused as a general evangelical call.

Youngs literal shows a different tone ;

<sup class="versenum" id="en-YLT-26137">16</sup>for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during

 

[Pizzaguy]

Not going to answer my question, are you?

Have you not thought your position thru very well?

 

[Hitch]

actually i dont fully agree with either, both have merits. yes god knew judas raised him up but it does mean that if god made judas to sin then he himself is responsible for that sin.

calvinists hate that but if god knew he would sin then did nothing offer him away out of that sin they why did judas hear the gospel? he offered him the chance to repent and also the chance for pharoah to repent and isreal then judged them all when they hardened their heart. soteriology does wonders.

There is a matter of witness. Judas heard the Gospel because God wanted him to here it,directly from the source.

You need to remember Christ is the Cheif Corner Stone.

You need to remember Christ is the Stumbling Block.

You need to remember its is NOT either or ,he is both.

Judas is an illustration of the spiritual state of apostate Israel. Hearing the Gospel from the very person of Jesus Christ, and rejecting their own blood ,kin and king.

 

[jasoncran]

i understand that but in all cases when god judged them types they were warned of it and and offered a chance to repent. judas heard the message and didnt change.

he damned himself and god used that to his glory and he foreknow that he would but didnt make him nor stop him from sinning!

 

[Hitch]

Not going to answer my question, are you?

Have you not thought your position thru very well?

It means that John 3;16 has been miss used as a general evangelical call.

Young's literal shows a different tone ;

<sup id="en-YLT-26137" class="versenum">16</sup>for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during

I thought that answered you pretty well.

Originally Posted by Pizzaguy
So does that mean that there is NO "general evangelic call"?

It does not.

 

[Hitch]

i understand that but in all cases when god judged them types they were warned of it and and offered a chance to repent. judas heard the message and didnt change.

Specualtion

he damned himself and god used that to his glory and he foreknow that he would but didnt make him nor stop him from sinning!

Exactly.

Judas was chosen ,just as John or Pete, but for different aspects of God's purposes.

 

[jasoncran]

the verse there that hitch is stating means that it can only apply to the person when they call on the lord.

aka limited atonement.

i dont agree with his version fully, not all will come but its offered to all.

 

[jasoncran]

Specualtion Exactly.

Judas was chosen ,just as John or Pete, but for different aspects of God's purposes.

really judas was there to hear the messages and also the statements of christ and walked with them. so when a sinner sits in church he doenst hear the message unless the pastor calls him out on it? man i have been in church and pastor is on the "left" and im being rebuked from the "right"

 

[Hitch]

really judas was there to hear the messages and also the statements of christ and walked with them. so when a sinner sits in church he doenst hear the message unless the pastor calls him out on it? man i have been in church and pastor is on the "left" and im being rebuked from the "right"

Lost me.

 

[felix]

I'd edit that if I were you. Sure He was 100% in the flesh, but He was way more than that in spirit, and you know it.

I cannot believe YOU of all people here goofed like that! I think you are trying too hard to win the argument, and in doing so, have, well, lost. Lost SOMETHING.

No, I am not trying to win any argument. I simply can't understand why the simple truth given in Romans 1 is so twisted to dilute the wrath of God over all humans and not on the people who it is mentioned for?

 

[jasoncran]

Lost me.

pastor could preach on genesis and say mentioned on the tree of life and i could be thinking and feeding off said similair image in revalation. happens alot to me.