"I'm Christian, unless you're gay"

[Mike S]

I think you never read the Scriptures esp, on Romans 1 about gays. It is not "Christians" who say about gays there is not love. What Christians are saying and what you are hearing is nothing but what is said in Romans 1 which refers to them as "haters of God".

You're wrong.

 

[felix]

You're wrong.

Thanks for clarifying. I changed my answer accordingly.

I think you read the Scriptures but overlooked Romans 1 about gays. It is not "Christians" who say about gays there is not love. What Christians are saying and what you are hearing is nothing but what is said in Romans 1 which refers to them as "haters of God".

 

[reba]

Speaking as a celibate "post-gay" man, I think we have to be clear on what "love" means. God loves us. Is he always "nice" to us? No. Merciful, yes, kind, absolutely, gracious, of course, but "nice"? No. For Christians, love should be based in Truth and should seek not to necessarily make people *feel* better--we're Christians, not self-esteem boosters--but to get them to be less sinful, closer to Christ (or start a relationship), and more authentically human. That's Love. This whole "I'm OK, you're OK, have a nice day" stuff might feel good in the short-term, both for the sinner and the Christian who avoids the Truth in order to feel like a do-gooder, but in the long run it does everybody involved (including God) a serious disservice.

Well said!

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for your comments.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here that I don't think homosexual behavior is a sin (I do), that I accept it as moral behavior (I don't), that I don't seek to spread the Gospel (I do), and that I don't encourage repentence (I do.) I just take seriously the adminition that whatever we do, we do in love. And in much of what I hear "Christians" say about gays there is no love. In fact what's said is frequently said in hatred and contempt.

I understand.

1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.

And what does love look like when put into action?

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up, Does not behave itself rudely, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, keeps no record of evil; Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

This, I believe is how we should respond to those outside the Body of Christ.

I would challenge anyone to show how to put flesh on each of the love languages provided in scripture in regard to how we engage those in homosexual behavior.


As far as those inside the Body of Christ,

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not entirely with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must you needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are outside? do not you judge them that are within? But them that are outside God judges. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[Mike S]

Thanks for clarifying. I changed my answer accordingly.

I think you read the Scriptures but overlooked Romans 1 about gays. It is not "Christians" who say about gays there is not love. What Christians are saying and what you are hearing is nothing but what is said in Romans 1 which refers to them as "haters of God".

Wrong again.

 

[stovebolts]

Felix,
What do you make of these two verses that Paul wrote?

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not proper;

1 Corinthians 5:12a For what have I to do to judge them also that are outside?
1 Corinthians 5:13a But them that are outside God judges.

 

[felix]

Felix,
What do you make of these two verses that Paul wrote?

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not proper;

1 Corinthians 5:12a For what have I to do to judge them also that are outside?
1 Corinthians 5:13a But them that are outside God judges.

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- not even to eat with such a person. For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

There are two groups of people: people who are outside and people who are inside.

• Sexual immoral People who are outside = had to have company as we are of this world.
• Sexual immoral People who are inside = called as a brother = not even eat with such a person.

Who is referred to as "named as a brother"?
(Matt 12:50) "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."
Starting from what Christ said, a brother or sister is referred throughout scriptures as a fellow Christian as in 1Cor 7:15; Jas 4:11; Jas 2:15; Heb 13:1 and many other places.

A brother (by definition of Scriptures in NT times), is a fellow Christian who does the will of the Father in heaven. So, who is referred to: as "named" as a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Paul is referring to false/name-sake Christians inside the Church group having no Spirit or Christ in them (but calling themselves Christians) referred by Jude as:

(Jude 1:4) For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does this relate to Homosexuality in Romans 1?
Romans 1 says the following:

1. (Rom 1:18) ... who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
2. (Rom 1:21) ... they knew God ..
3. (Rom 1:25) .. exchanged the truth of God for the lie ...
4. (Rom 1:28) .. they did not like to retain God in their knowledge ...
5. (Rom 1:32) ... knowing the righteous judgment of God ...

These people are not outside and and all these people are very well inside the churches today who knew God and His righteous judgement who are ripping off the true body of Christ from inside. These are the people we must not even eat with or have any form of fellowship.

You can preach gospel to someone outside who does not know God. How can you preach gospel to someone who is inside, who knew God and His righteous judgement?

 

[jasoncran]

There are two groups of people: people who are outside and people who are inside.

• Sexual immoral People who are outside = had to have company as we are of this world.
• Sexual immoral People who are inside = called as a brother = not even eat with such a person.

Who is referred to as "named as a brother"?
(Matt 12:50) "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."
Starting from what Christ said, a brother or sister is referred throughout scriptures as a fellow Christian as in 1Cor 7:15; Jas 4:11; Jas 2:15; Heb 13:1 and many other places.

A brother (by definition of Scriptures in NT times), is a fellow Christian who does the will of the Father in heaven. So, who is referred to: as "named" as a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Paul is referring to false/name-sake Christians inside the Church group having no Spirit or Christ in them (but calling themselves Christians) referred by Jude as:

(Jude 1:4) For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does this relate to Homosexuality in Romans 1?

Romans 1 says the following:

1. (Rom 1:18) ... who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
2. (Rom 1:21) ... they knew God ..
3. (Rom 1:25) .. exchanged the truth of God for the lie ...
4. (Rom 1:28) .. they did not like to retain God in their knowledge ...
5. (Rom 1:32) ... knowing the righteous judgment of God ...

These people are not outside and and all these people are very well inside the churches today who knew God and His righteous judgement who are ripping off the true body of Christ from inside. These are the people we must not even eat with or have any form of fellowship.

You can preach gospel to someone outside who does not know God. How can you preach gospel to someone who is inside, who knew God and His righteous judgement?

cough, i was in the church when i was in that sin and well fasting and prayful prophetess told me i was in sin and wrong. told me to read romans 1 and i repented.

 

[felix]

cough, i was in the church when i was in that sin and well fasting and prayful prophetess told me i was in sin and wrong. told me to read romans 1 and i repented.

You probably need to stop saying that you were in that sin.

• (Ps 103:12) As far as the east is from the west, [So] far has He removed our transgressions from us.
• (Jer 31:34) ".. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Even God don't remember your sin. Why do you even think that you were once in sin?

 

[Mike S]

You probably need to stop saying that you were in that sin.

• (Ps 103:12) As far as the east is from the west, [So] far has He removed our transgressions from us.
• (Jer 31:34) ".. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Even God don't remember your sin. Why do you even think that you were once in sin?

I'm proud of him for admitting his sin, and that, with God's grace, he's overcome it.

I consider him to be a strong Christian brother.

 

[felix]

I'm proud of him for admitting his sin, and that, with God's grace, he's overcome it.

I consider him to be a strong Christian brother.

Sins need to he admitted to God - not you and me.

 

[Mike S]

Sins need to he admitted to God - not you and me.

His comments indicate it was. I trust him.

 

[felix]

His comments indicate it was. I trust him.

He needs to admit and confess to you only if he had done anything against you. He hasn't done anything to me. What are we supposed do for knowing his past sins?

 

[reba]

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

 

[reba]

He needs to admit and confess to you only if he had done anything against you. He hasn't done anything to me. What are we supposed do for knowing his past sins?

It is not about you, it is the other persons needs sometimes.
Maybe we could hold him up in prayer. Some folks need more holding then others. Some folks need to talk about stuff some need not to. Some of us are privet some not.

 

[Nick]

I'm proud of him for admitting his sin, and that, with God's grace, he's overcome it.

I consider him to be a strong Christian brother.

 

[felix]

It is not about you, it is the other persons needs sometimes.
Maybe we could hold him up in prayer. Some folks need more holding then others. Some folks need to talk about stuff some need not to. Some of us are privet some not.

agreed!

 

[jasoncran]

FELIX, THAT WAS over 15 years ago. i was 23 at the time and well just converted so i backslide into that sin. its wrong that i admitted that in the open?there might be a gay man or lesbian that lurks and sees this and is blessed and repents. imagine that. the irony here is that you miss that part where it was a muslim who told his mother that is the christian that then called me to repent. she was talking to me about jesus for a year and was grieved when i did that sin and did something about it, that is a fullfillement of galations 6!

what you all didnt know is when did come to christ the first time before that fall, i walked three miles to tell her that i was a child of god. she also let me stay with her and encouraged me to repent and prayed for me and lead me to the cross. so please felix.stop for once and try to accept that god does call us to repent openly to the church and wants us to tell others that i was in sin when i do it.

then was a bad time in my life and theres much hurt that went on and i seldom tell it all.

 

[stovebolts]

There are two groups of people: people who are outside and people who are inside.

• Sexual immoral People who are outside = had to have company as we are of this world.
• Sexual immoral People who are inside = called as a brother = not even eat with such a person.

Who is referred to as "named as a brother"?
(Matt 12:50) "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."
Starting from what Christ said, a brother or sister is referred throughout scriptures as a fellow Christian as in 1Cor 7:15; Jas 4:11; Jas 2:15; Heb 13:1 and many other places.

A brother (by definition of Scriptures in NT times), is a fellow Christian who does the will of the Father in heaven. So, who is referred to: as "named" as a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Paul is referring to false/name-sake Christians inside the Church group having no Spirit or Christ in them (but calling themselves Christians) referred by Jude as:

(Jude 1:4) For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does this relate to Homosexuality in Romans 1?
Romans 1 says the following:

1. (Rom 1:18) ... who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
2. (Rom 1:21) ... they knew God ..
3. (Rom 1:25) .. exchanged the truth of God for the lie ...
4. (Rom 1:28) .. they did not like to retain God in their knowledge ...
5. (Rom 1:32) ... knowing the righteous judgment of God ...

These people are not outside and and all these people are very well inside the churches today who knew God and His righteous judgement who are ripping off the true body of Christ from inside. These are the people we must not even eat with or have any form of fellowship.

You can preach gospel to someone outside who does not know God. How can you preach gospel to someone who is inside, who knew God and His righteous judgement?

A most excellent post... if we were talking specifically about...
(Jude 1:4) For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

To those, I would agree leads to the Romans 1 type. However, just because somebody is sexually immoral, we can not automatically peg them as the Jude or Romans 1 type.

Who is it that does the will of the Father? Is it not those who are able to repent? Do not the angels in heaven rejoice when one sinner is brought back into the fold by way of repentance?

John says that we all sin, and that if we say we don't sin, then we are liars. You know this to be true. When I read Mark's posts, I see him seeking those who are lost, in a most biblical way. Mark (rightfully so) does not see every homosexual act as an act of those in Jude nor in Roman's 1. Though I believe he recognizes those you and Hitch so vehemently, and rightly oppose.

We need discernment here, and we can't paint every act of sin with the same brush. Life isn't black and white.. it's full of color.

 

[childeye]

There are two groups of people: people who are outside and people who are inside.

• Sexual immoral People who are outside = had to have company as we are of this world.
• Sexual immoral People who are inside = called as a brother = not even eat with such a person.

Who is referred to as "named as a brother"?
(Matt 12:50) "For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."
Starting from what Christ said, a brother or sister is referred throughout scriptures as a fellow Christian as in 1Cor 7:15; Jas 4:11; Jas 2:15; Heb 13:1 and many other places.

A brother (by definition of Scriptures in NT times), is a fellow Christian who does the will of the Father in heaven. So, who is referred to: as "named" as a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Paul is referring to false/name-sake Christians inside the Church group having no Spirit or Christ in them (but calling themselves Christians) referred by Jude as:

(Jude 1:4) For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does this relate to Homosexuality in Romans 1?


Romans 1 says the following:

1. (Rom 1:18) ... who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
2. (Rom 1:21) ... they knew God ..
3. (Rom 1:25) .. exchanged the truth of God for the lie ...
4. (Rom 1:28) .. they did not like to retain God in their knowledge ...
5. (Rom 1:32) ... knowing the righteous judgment of God ...

These people are not outside and and all these people are very well inside the churches today who knew God and His righteous judgement who are ripping off the true body of Christ from inside. These are the people we must not even eat with or have any form of fellowship.

You can preach gospel to someone outside who does not know God. How can you preach gospel to someone who is inside, who knew God and His righteous judgement?

I think Romans 1 is speaking about all men, saying all men were like this, supressing the Truth, ungodly etc...