Noah and the Flood

[cubedbee]

"Of course, some of the words, such as 'all flesh died' (7:21) might be interpreted as meaning all living things within the local area, as some modern 'scholars' claim. But when a word can have more than one meaning, the context must define its true meaning. And in Genesis 6-10, the context is one of a global Flood! More than 30 times, words and phrases of global scope appear. In each case, the primary meaning is one of totality, but when they are all together, the meaning is crystal clear.

This is false. Read the link I just posted to see that these words and phrases used for non-Global scope throughout the OT.

Compare this clear teaching with the teachings of Christ and the New Testament writers, and the conclusion is inescapable. Trying to salvage the local flood idea makes nonsense out of New Testament doctrine.

For example: the local flood theory logically implies that the Indians in North America, the natives in Africa, the Scandinavians, the Chinese, etc., were not affected by the Flood. They escaped God's judgment on sin. If so, what could Christ possibly have meant when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of 'all' men (Matthew 24:37-79) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah's day means a partial judgment to come. Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global."

No, it doesn't logically imply this. Who says that humanity scattered throughout the globe before Noah's flood? Certainly not the Bible. The only recording of the scattering of people throughout the planet occurs at the Tower of Babel, after the flood. The judgement of Noah's flood was complete against humanity---but all of humanity lived in the Mesoptanian region and were killed by a non-global flood.

 

[bibleberean]

Was the flood global?


http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c005.html

Read the biblical reasons in the details in the above link?

All The Mountains Were Covered

The Ark Was Huge.

Humans Populated The Entire World

All Humans Were Killed

All Air-Breathing, Land Animals Killed

A "Cataclysm," Not A Mere Flood

God's Rainbow Promise

Why Stay In The Ark A Year?!

The Whole Earth Was Devastated

 

[bibleberean]

How much water was in the flood? It did a lot more than rain....

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html

The Fountains of the Great Deep

The "fountains of the great deep" are mentioned before the "windows of heaven," indicating either relative importance or the order of events.

What are the "fountains of the great deep?" This phrase is used only in Genesis 7:11. "Fountains of the deep" is used in Genesis 8:2, where it clearly refers to the same thing, and Proverbs 8:28, where the precise meaning is not clear. "The great deep" is used three other times: Isaiah 51:10, where it clearly refers to the ocean; Amos 7:4, where God's fire of judgement is said to dry up the great deep, probably the oceans; and Psalm 36:6 where it is used metaphorically of the depth of God's justice/judgement. "The deep" is used more often, and usually refers to the oceans (e.g., Genesis 1:2; Job 38:30, 41:32; Psalm 42:7, 104:6; Isaiah 51:10, 63:13; Ezekiel 26:19; Jonah 2:3), but sometimes to subterranean sources of water (Ezekiel 31:4, 15). The Hebrew word (mayan) translated "fountains" means "fountain, spring, well."[1]

So, the "fountains of the great deep" are probably oceanic or possibly subterranean sources of water. In the context of the flood account, it could mean both."


BB continues:

The mountains of the earth were covered with water.

Genesis 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

This is global.

The only people that survived the flood were Noah and his son's and their wives.

There were no other people left on earth.

Read the links I provided. Check them out against other links and draw your own conclusions.

Read these verses and see if you can come up with a local catastrophe...

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The heavens and earth which "now are" aint' just local. ;-)

 

[bibleberean]

Is there anyone here that believes the rainbow is just a local occurrence? :

 

[Quath]

That's just a few. So why try and justify a few scientific facts (badly, in my opinion, but that is neither here nor there)?

I think the problem is that if the evidence does not support what the Bible says, then God would have to go through a lot of effort to hide it. God would have to make it look as if a global flood did not happen by repairing the erosion damage; moving kangaroos to Australia; and making dinosaur bones appear below mammal bones in the earth. So I think people don't want to think that God would hide evidence of His existance if our eternal salvation depends on it.

Quath

 

[bibleberean]

If anyone is truly interested in information and geological studies that show that a world wide flood can be supported geologically here is some helpful information.

A note to Christians

It is important to remember that the atheists that come to this forum are missionaries for their religion. The bible and the existence of God is a threat to them. Even if they are not aware of it they are fools being used by the god of this world to sow doubt in the minds of Christians who most often are at a loss to answer their questions.

The bible plainly declares that these people are fools. I have met several atheists in person and have found that they are the most egotistical bimbo's on the planet.



What geological evidence in our world today supports events mentioned in the Bible, such as a global flood?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... eology.asp

the Bible, such as a global flood?
Assessing Creationist Stratigraphy with Evidence from the Gulf of Mexico (Semi-Technical)
Australia's Burning Mountain
A classic tillite reclassified as a submarine debris flow (Technical)
Can Flood geology explain thick chalk layers?
Canyon creation
Canyon in six days!
The collapse of 'geologic time'! (radiohaloes in coalified wood)
Creating opals
Devil's Tower and Bible glasses
Devil's Tower Formation (ICR Acts and Facts article)
Dinosaur National Monument (ICR Impact article)
Fluidisation pipes: evidence of large-scale watery catastrophe
Grand Canyon
Grand Canyon limestone: fast or slow deposits?
Grand Canyon limestones (Semi-Technical, ICR Impact)
Grand Canyon: Startling evidence for Noah’s Flood
Grand Canyon strata show geologic time is imaginary
Huge boulder shows power of Flood
Iceland’s recent ‘mega-flood’
The Lesson of Surtsey
The Lost Squadron (available in Spanish)
Microscopic diamonds confound geologists (Semi-Technical)
Mt Isa Metal Deposits
Mt St Helens & Catastrophism (Semi-Technical, ICR Impact)
Niagara Falls and the Bible
Oil and Flood Geology (ICR Impact article)
Paleosols: digging deeper buries ‘challenge’ to Flood geology (semi-technical)
Rapid rock
Salty saga
Shifting sands
The story that won't be told (about the Lake Missoula flood)
Surtsey, the young island that looks old!
Three sisters: evidence for Noah's Flood
Tuluman  A Test of Time
Uluru and Kata Tjuta: Testimony to the Flood
Warped earth
Were the huge Columbia River basalts formed during the Flood? (ICR Acts and Facts article)
World’s oldest salt lake only a few thousand years old
The Yellowstone petrified forest (Semi-Technical)

And much much more....

 

[ThinkerMan]

That's just a few. So why try and justify a few scientific facts (badly, in my opinion, but that is neither here nor there)?

I think the problem is that if the evidence does not support what the Bible says, then God would have to go through a lot of effort to hide it. God would have to make it look as if a global flood did not happen by repairing the erosion damage; moving kangaroos to Australia; and making dinosaur bones appear below mammal bones in the earth. So I think people don't want to think that God would hide evidence of His existance if our eternal salvation depends on it.

Quath

Yeah...if the flood occured there are two scenarios here, in my mind.

1. There is ample evidence for a young earth and that the flood happened. Anyone who objectively looks at the physical evidence must come to the conclusion that the earth is young, the flood occurred and the bible is literally true.

If this is the case, then there really is no faith. Free will goes out the window, since God makes his presence obvious and clear, so there is no choice but to believe in him. If we have no rational choice but to believe that God exists, and he is Yahweh of the bible, then there is no free will to believe nor is there any faith required.

Just like it doesn't take faith to believe that grass is green. It wouldn't take faith to believe in God if the fabulous claims of the flood is proven to have occured.

2. The flood occured, but God has hidden all the miracles he performed to make it happen, and made the earth appear very old.

If this is the case, God deceives us. Through his creation, he lies to us and projects the appearance that despite the claims of the bible, observations tell us it never happened.

Of course, the most rational choice is simply that the flood didn't occur, but is rather an elaborate mythology of an ancient culture.....

Very similar to the hundreds of other elaborate mythologies of ancient cultures everybody has no problems dismissing as purely literary inventions.

 

[Drew]

The bible plainly declares that these people are fools. I have met several atheists in person and have found that they are the most egotistical bimbo's on the planet.

While I do not subscribe to your particular style of interpersonal interaction, I must admit you do come up with some pretty creative expressions.....

 

[bibleberean]

The approach to understanding the flood is take God at His word. We have a choice. We can believe God who knows everything and has always existed or we can believe men that don't know everthing and are not bright enough to see that creation, design and order demand an intelligent creator... ;-)

There are even more possible explanations and evidence that support the bible then most Christians are aware of...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... eology.asp

How were the Earth’s coal beds formed? Does coal formation take a long time?

Coal Beds and Noah’s Flood
Coal: memorial to the Flood
Coal, volcanism and Noah’s Flood (Technical)
Forests that Grew on Water (Semi-Technical)
Too Much Coal for a Young Earth? (Technical)
How were limestone caves formed? Does cave formation take a long time?
Origin of Limestone caves (Semi-Technical ICR Impact article)
Were Grand Canyon Limestones deposited by calm and placid seas? (Semi-Technical ICR Impact article)
Rapid cave formation by sulfuric acid dissolution (Technical)

Limestone caves: a result of Noah's Flood?

Caves for all seasons
Forked seams sabotage swamp theory
Do stalagmites and stalactites take a long time to form?
Bottle stalagmite
Caving in to reality
‘Instant’ stalagmites
Rapid Stalactites?
Is there evidence that rocks don't take a long time to form?
Bell-ieve it: rapid rock formation
That Choking Feeling …
The Clock in the Rock
Do large crystals in granite prove very slow cooling? (Semi-technical, response to critic)
Fascinating fossil fence-wire
Granite grain size: not a problem for rapid cooling of plutons (Technical)
Geology and the Young Earth (Russian translation)
Keys to rapid rock formation
Petrified waterwheel
The rapid formation of granitic rocks: more evidence (Technical)
Rapid Granite Formation (Technical)
Rapid Rocks  Granites … They didn’t need millions of years of cooling! (Semi-Technical)
Sandy Surprise
Sedimentation Experiments Ã۠Nature finally catches up! (Semi-Technical)

 

[ThinkerMan]

The bible plainly declares that these people are fools. I have met several atheists in person and have found that they are the most egotistical bimbo's on the planet.

While I do not subscribe to your particular style of interpersonal interaction, I must admit you do come up with some pretty creative expressions.....

haha

I've been called quite a few things in my life, but that's my first "bimbo".

 

[ThinkerMan]

BB:

Two questions....

1. If you believe that the evidence firmly demonstrates a young earth as well as the fact that the flood occurred (as is evidenced by your last few posts and comments), doesn't that mean you have no faith?

Aren't you using proof, not faith as the reason why you believe the bible is true?

2. You say to trust God, not man, since man makes mistakes, yet you repeatedly link to articles and opinions expressed by other men. Isn't that contradictory to make your point that men are inherantly untrusting as sources by linking to articles written by other men?

 

[bibleberean]

The bible plainly declares that these people are fools. I have met several atheists in person and have found that they are the most egotistical bimbo's on the planet.

While I do not subscribe to your particular style of interpersonal interaction, I must admit you do come up with some pretty creative expressions.....

Thanks Drew,

I am working on my people skills.

In Christ,

Robert

 

[bibleberean]

BB:

Two questions....

1. If you believe that the evidence firmly demonstrates a young earth as well as the fact that the flood occurred (as is evidenced by your last few posts and comments), doesn't that mean you have no faith?

Aren't you using proof, not faith as the reason why you believe the bible is true?

2. You say to trust God, not man, since man makes mistakes, yet you repeatedly link to articles and opinions expressed by other men. Isn't that contradictory to make your point that men are inherantly untrusting as sources by linking to articles written by other men?

Use your head...

The articles presented are written by fallible men. Some of the things they write are clearly speculative and are opinions based on interpretation of evidence. Some of what they write may be wrong and they even say so.

I cannot prove the flood took place since I wasn't there to witness the event.

God said there was a world wide flood there should be some evidence of it and there is...

There is sufficient evidence in my opinion to support that a world wide flood could have taken place just as the bible describes it.


For every argument the skeptics come up with that the flood never occurred there is an argument to counter it...

Your logic is flawed.

What you are asking me in my opinion are not even reasonable questions.

Quite frankly I think they are very shallow ones.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Use your head...

If it's about faith, I shouldn't have to. If you assume faith and proof are mutually exclusive, which is the only why free will can truly be free.

I cannot prove the flood took place since I wasn't there to witness the event.

However, you do not have faith that Abraham Lincoln lived, or that Buenos Aires is a real city (assuming you haven't been to Argentina or are over 200 years old).

The reason why you believe they exist has nothing to do with faith, it is entirely based on reason and evidence.

Similarly, using what is claimed as empirical proof belies your claim of faith.

There is sufficient evidece in my opinion to support that a world wide flood could have taken place just as the bible describes it.

Again, then you can't claim faith that it occured. In your mind, you have proof, not faith.

For every argument the skeptics come up with that the flood never occurred there is an argument to counter it...

That doesn't mean they are good arguments.

However, more importantly the onus is not on us to prove the flood never occured. It is the onus of literalists to prove that it has.

What you are asking me in my opinion are not even reasonable questions.

Quite frankly I think they are very shallow ones.

I appreciate you coming over to the kiddy end of the pool to play.

 

[bibleberean]

Faith is reasonable.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

It is reasonable to believe that there is a Creator.

It is reasonable to believe the bible.

Christians have reasons for their faith.

No where does the bible ask us not to reason and be reasonable.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The book of Romans declares that creation itself proves that there is a Creator.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I believe God and His word. I can see clearly the foolishness of those who go so far as to deny the existence of God.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I need look no further than this forum to see the truth of the above statement.

There was a world wide flood and there will be a day when God will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

 

[antitox]

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I need look no further than this forum to see the truth of the above statement.

I could not be in more agreement with that fact. 8-)

 

[supernac]

The atheists that post here are looking for somthing.
I pray they find Jesus.

 

[Vic C.]

The atheists that post here are looking for somthing.
I pray they find Jesus.

So do I, my friend. :angel:

 

[peace4all]

The articles presented are written by fallible men. Some of the things they write are clearly speculative and are opinions based on interpretation of evidence. Some of what they write may be wrong and they even say so.

just like the bible?

 

[bibleberean]

The bible was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and is not the same as uninspired men writing papers on science or history.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Atheists may not believe this but they have an obvious problem.

"The fool hath said in his heart there is no God" Psalms 51:1

Christians believe by faith that Noah's flood took place and that the entire world that existed was destroyed by water.

"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God". Romans 10:17

Creationist Ken Ham states that if there was a world wide flood we would expect to see "billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth and that is exactly what we do see".