Bible Study "Pastor" Office or Gift?

[Nathan]

There is only one Virgin Fold (Eph. 4:5-Psalms 77:13) that was REMOVED from the Lampstand & was extended with the Remnant from these ones TRUE Teachings, and who still possesed these Virgin doctrines. Matt. 25 has this PRESENT DAY message documented again in Matt. 10:5-6 on. It is a twice repeated truth according to Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 + verse Matt. 10:23's verse with Christ already there at that 'time' speaking.

OK: These were the ones (Remnant) who already were in the True Doctrines of Christ's Isa. 5's True Fold. When they went through to 'THE LOST SHEEP'S HOUSE', it was these 'ones that heard & obeyed' that made up the Acts New Virgin [EXTENDED FOLD,] (Rev. 2:5 + Rev. 3:16) and these ones were already MATURE IN VIRGIN TRUTHS. There were NO REASONS to worry about the 'gifts' being needed, these ones had them already! They were & are to be tested by fire.

Seperate meetings are not the issue untile the reason & MOTIVE are ESTABLISHED! Note Matt.10:5-6 'LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE..' and [THEN VERSE 15's Present Day Message!] These ones message caused the 2 Thess. 2:1-3 in their day & they were SEPERATED, CUT OFF WITH A CLOSED DOOR OF PROBATION, + Matt. 23:38's DESOLATE HOUSE! And these ones are are to be judged worse than S.& G. in Judgement!?

OK, think again!! JUDGEMENT??? We just found that the Matt. 25:10 verse found this ex/fold JUDGED LOST AS A FOLD! So even here, you are learning ('i' hope) that this INSPIRATION speaks of the Executional phase of Judgement.
Hell's second death of Luke 12:47-48. Judgement has one saved or lost & the End Judgement has Justified Execution.

So: Rev. 18:4 has a Remnant fold once again to either form or join! And Acts 2 on will again be repeated. Rev. 12:17 finds that Truth with none of these 144000 ones needing revival with REFORMATION. These are seen in Rev. 3:10's last conflict. (as 'i' see it)

--Elijah

Precisely!!! "Revival" & "Reformation" are not true Church doctrines. Does the body of Christ need to be 'revived'??????? Does the body of Christ need to be 're-formed'?????? Insanity!

 

[pjt]

True! Ephesians 4 does not speak about the body being built by the gifts, but the doctrine they pass on.

Jhn 17:17-20 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word...

It is when we focus on the gift, not the body, that we go along the broadway. .

I agree that we have to focus on God and the Body which is inclusive of the 2 great commandments.

And although our wording is different I think we can agree that it is through our gifts that sound doctrine is passed on. The teacher teaches the doctrine and the pastor demonstrates through his actions how to live out the doctrine. The apostle demonstrates the power of the doctrine, etc. Unless one is living under sound, Biblical doctrine, they can not live out their gift fully.

 

[Jake]

I agree that we have to focus on God and the Body which is inclusive of the 2 great commandments.

And although our wording is different I think we can agree that it is through our gifts that sound doctrine is passed on. The teacher teaches the doctrine and the pastor demonstrates through his actions how to live out the doctrine. The apostle demonstrates the power of the doctrine, etc. Unless one is living under sound, Biblical doctrine, they can not live out their gift fully.

Yes, it's a package deal, the Body does not function w/out the gifts, and we would not receive sound doctrine w/out them.

Many denominations and people are deceived into believing the gifts are not for us today, they are powerless in their walk.

 

[matt633]

So I read this one little book this week while sick and it brought up a point.

Personally, I have always believed way to much predominance was placed on this "position". So much so sometimes that it is sickening how much it resembles what Catholics think of the Pope as.

But I have heard in the past that the "position" of Pastor was one of an 'office'. In other words, I believe what they mean is, that it is something 'set up' and 'set apart' from the other so called gifts.

So is it something that we should put above all other things? Is it really what we deem it to be? Seems to me, personally, that the pastor is a simple gift that God gives to us. Not any different than any of the other except in its function.

Whats everyones thoughts on this?

I think a gift and not an office

 

[matt633]

Here are some texts to consider:

"The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." 1 Timothy 5:17-18



I think that the pastor is a protector and there is no reason why he cannot and should not be a preacher and teacher as well. Since the protection he is providing for us is spiritual protection, seeing to it that the flock is properly taught and equipped is part of that role.

I agree with this. So far I believe pastorship is a gift and I see no reason why a person blessed with this gift could not also be blessed with the gift of teaching, and preaching. I think we often mix the title up with the office of bishop, elder, or overseer but in each case the holder of the office is also gifted as a pastor. I see nothing wrong with the official title of pastor in light of this.

 

[Rinid]

i'm coming into this late, but I think what we think of pastor the office in the church and what the bible talks about pastor the gift given by god is a bit different. I think the way the bible describes it, the role we tend to put with it is administrator. Now in that role that person will touch often on all the other gifts talked about. Sometimes we find a great pastor that can't really teach to well. Makes a great state administrator thou. Other times we'll find a pastor who does well at a church teaching and preaching but when he's pulled into the state admin role he messes everything up and gets everyone mad. I believe the reason is because there gift isn't right for the role the church may ask at times..

 

[Elijah674]

So I read this one little book this week while sick and it brought up a point.

Personally, I have always believed way to much predominance was placed on this "position". So much so sometimes that it is sickening how much it resembles what Catholics think of the Pope as.

But I have heard in the past that the "position" of Pastor was one of an 'office'. In other words, I believe what they mean is, that it is something 'set up' and 'set apart' from the other so called gifts.

So is it something that we should put above all other things? Is it really what we deem it to be? Seems to me, personally, that the pastor is a simple gift that God gives to us. Not any different than any of the other except in its function.

Whats everyones thoughts on this?

Hi, is that still your thinking? How about the 'calling' of God of a personal [LOVING DUTY] as required in His Eternal Covenant of Christs Sacrifice? Is ones CALLING the same as a office or gift to your thinking still? And just the word pastor? Seems to me that that has a meaning that can be used correctly in many different ways, such as a radio pastor even? And any group's leader could be called their pastor correctly if that was done?

Personally as I see it, Christ's Call of 'WATCHMAN' is a Loving Responsibility that is between He & the person & really makes very little difference to what people think!;)
Eze. 33:29-32 is todays prophecy as well as I see it, and the name?? it is only that of 'son of man'! Eze. 9 is a good 'picture' of this last hard work that is required by God.. 'i' think! Son of man again! (Eze. 8:6)

Surely this is a CALLING that but few of the today ones have accepted nor 'feel' humanly as pastor or gift want! Because the 'message' from Eze. 8:1-11 is against the 'WHOLE [[HOUSE]] OF TODAY 'SPIRITUAL' ISRAEL! Rev. 17:1-5

And there is a FATAL Sin of omission for these ones... (if found a gutless wonder! see John 20:18 before their surrender) that is recorded in Eze. 33:6-19. And it will be interesting to read during the 1000 years of Judgement to see in the accurate recorded Record Books just who the ones that God did call who did indeed, NOT ANSWER THAT CALLING??

Surely Saul (Paul) of Acts 9 could have 'freely' gone either way! And the LAW??? Christ told him when asked, what HE MUST DO! (ibid 6!) And what was that? Well, when Saul '100% SUBBMITTED' & OBEYED CHRIST, what was he to fill in as? a pastor, the gift, son of man, or a calling? And these ones of Matt, 10:25 who were to be 'The disciple' in the singular (verse 24) also were to be called as Christ, Beelzebub by the ex/christians!


So in bottom/line it does appear that the world will have names to give to all that are 'called of Christ God', huh? The important thing is, as 'i' see it, is that they will KNOW that it is the WORD OF GOD GIVEN! Matt. 10:20 IS STRAIGHT! TO THE POINT! AND NOTHING OMITTED!;)

--Elijah