I am glad this topic is not coming across wrong. I really am keeping my emotions in check. Its not that I have anything against a 'pastor' as such. I have been around quite a few that I respect. However, I personally detest the emphasis that has been seemingly placed on them. Why? Because I see wonderful men and women of God, full of virtue and faith, who get passed on because they do not have the title 'pastor'.
The honor is supposed to be placed on the elders of the church, not an individual. I am glad to hear that this is not the rule around here. But I had to find out if it was and why people thought this way. I can find no precedent that the 'office' or 'position' of pastor exists. A gift yes, but not a position. In my mind once it is put into a position status, then the position is the honored thing and not the gift.
We can 'claim' otherwise all we want, and most people will, but actions speak louder than words. There is no doubt a thread of personal experience that is running through this. I do not hold grudges, but at the same time I am very quick to prejudge a situation.
I know without a doubt that God has called me into something. He has given me a gift. But when I approached my 'pastor' it was almost as nothing unless I was going to start attending a school of some kind. I realize that I have projected this onto the pastor who now is apart of our fellowship, but only because he has also not shown much interest in those who are not the type 'A' personality he is.
Strange thing is that I for some reason or another have not felt like I am supposed to leave the fellowship. Frustrating to say the least. And I want to so bad make my fellowship seem like a diamond shining among the lumps of coal, but we have a bad bad habit of elevating our 'pastors' to positions of 'god like status'. And we are a simple little Baptist fellowship.
This topic stems from the book I read, but also from a conversation I had with the current pastor on the gifts a while back. He made the statement that there is a gift of pastor and a office. And that has kind of stuck with me, because I can find no truth to back it up. Through out the NT there is only two groups of people. The mature, elders, and the immature, young believers.
So, for those references that you give Handy, taken from your fellowships web site, Acts 20:28 is specifically talking about mature men who he called and gave charge to watch over the young ones in the faith. There is absolutely no 'system' or 'office' being set up in this situation. Not when you take the whole story in its context.
Then we have Titus 1:5, Titus was to appoint elders. He was to select, from among ALL the believers in that church, those who showed themselves mature in the faith. He was to get them 'set up' and then obviously move on. This is the God given gift of a church planter or what some would call an apostle. Not to be confused with one of "the" twelve apostles, but the practical outworking of what an apostle does. Paul does not instruct Titus to appoint just one, or a few, but simply what ever is needed.
Then there is is Ephesians 4:11. Again, clearly this is specifically speaking of 'gifts' from God.
Eph 4:7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.....And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,"
No where can we pull out that these are 'offices' that are set up. They are gifts. The term gift implies that it can be given to anyone. And I think that is where the majority of the animosity toward it comes from. When we take away the 'privilege' of an 'office', then that means we have to concede that the average joe just might be equipped by God to shepherd His people.
But we put people through the tests to see if they are 'qualified' to be the 'leader'. Whenever that is a separate gift altogether.
Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
Rom 12:7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom 12:8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
It just seems like we take one passage and then paste it with another to build our own understanding of what God wants. When it seems plain to me that when taken in context we can see exactly what God desires from His church.
Ok, I'll get off the box now.
If you're ever in my neck of the woods, I'll have to invite you to visit our church with me! We do indeed have two pastors. Our younger, "official" pastor. And an older, semi-retired pastor, who is only around some of the time. Both do indeed "watch" over the flock with love and care. Leaving our old church and starting at this new one was a rather "trying" experience for my husband and I. We left the old church with a lot of mixed feelings and with a lot of love for those who we left behind. I was so impressed by Pastor Reeder's loving understanding and advice as we navigated through that time. I was even more touched when, upon meeting the elder Pastor McCoy for the first time, he expressed his understand of what a rough time we had been through and offered excellent and advice as well. 