Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[Randy]

No, Brother...Jesus did not go around casting out fallen angels, He cast out evil spirits and demons. That was the question.

They had to come from somewhere.

Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

 

[Edward]

Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Yes...but that is Satan. I am talking about demons and evil spirits. Like for instance, in
Luke 11:14
14 And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute. So it was, when the demon had gone out, that the mute spoke; and the multitudes marveled.../

Jesus casted out a mute demon. When the demon was out and gone, the man could speak. It doesn't say cast out Satan, it doesn't say cast out a fallen Angel...it says a demon. Where did this demon come from?

Matthew 8:16 He casts out many who were demon-possessed...
Mark 1:34 demons
Luke 4:41
Matthew 8:32 a legion of demons into a herd of swine...

Mark 16:9 Jesus casted out seven demons from Mary Magdalene...

Demons Brother. We're talking about demons here. Not Satan, not fallen Angels...demons. Where in the world did they come from...?

It's a valid question Brother.

 

[Randy]

Yes...but that is Satan. I am talking about demons and evil spirits. Like for instance, in
Luke 11:14
14 And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute. So it was, when the demon had gone out, that the mute spoke; and the multitudes marveled.../

Jesus casted out a mute demon. When the demon was out and gone, the man could speak. It doesn't say cast out Satan, it doesn't say cast out a fallen Angel...it says a demon. Where did this demon come from?

Matthew 8:16 He casts out many who were demon-possessed...
Mark 1:34 demons
Luke 4:41
Matthew 8:32 a legion of demons into a herd of swine...

Mark 16:9 Jesus casted out seven demons from Mary Magdalene...

Demons Brother. We're talking about demons here. Not Satan, not fallen Angels...demons. Where in the world did they come from...?

It's a valid question Brother.

I told you but you could not accept that a demon is a fallen angel. They lost the war in heaven and were cast to earth. Hence called evil spirits.

 

[Edward]

I told you but you could not accept that a demon is a fallen angel. They lost the war in heaven and were cast to earth. Hence called evil spirits.

Yep, you are correct. I do not accept that.

I can see where they were cast to earth...but am having trouble finding the...and they became demons...scripture. Could you point me to that Brother? Or...how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Edward]

The war in heaven isn't over yet. See revelation...

 

[Randy]

The war in heaven isn't over yet. See revelation...

Can you be more specific?

 

[Edward]

Can you be more specific?

Oh yes. Sorry Brother.
It's in Revelation 12:7-17 right now, Satan and his angels can go before God and accuse us. Soon, they will be cast out for good and no longer can accuse us. ...and there was war in heaven...then. So it is not over yet, the war in heaven.


I can see where they were cast to earth...but am having trouble finding the...and they became demons...scripture. Could you point me to that Brother? Or...how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[JLB]

I told you but you could not accept that a demon is a fallen angel. They lost the war in heaven and were cast to earth. Hence called evil spirits.

Fallen angels have not been cast to the earth, yet.

This event is associated with the great tribulation.

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Revelation 12:7-14


Key Verses:

• So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

• Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” [Interesting is the phrase woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea.]

• when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman. [the time of the great tribulation]

• that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time. [31/2 years]

Also interesting and key to note is the phrase: But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle


This is the the phrase that was used when the Lord delivered His people into the wilderness from the land of Egypt. The two wings of a great eagle refers to the Holy Spirit, as a cloud by day, and a fire by night.


‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself. Exodus 19:4



JLB

 

[Randy]

Fallen angels have not been cast to the earth, yet.

This event is associated with the great tribulation.

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Revelation 12:7-14


Key Verses:

• So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

• Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” [Interesting is the phrase woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea.]

• when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman. [the time of the great tribulation]

• that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time. [31/2 years]

Also interesting and key to note is the phrase: But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle


This is the the phrase that was used when the Lord delivered His people into the wilderness from the land of Egypt. The two wings of a great eagle refers to the Holy Spirit, as a cloud by day, and a fire by night.


‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself. Exodus 19:4



JLB

Key verse you quoted states AND his angels were cast out with Him.
Key Verses:

• So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[JLB]

Key verse you quoted states AND his angels were cast out with Him.
Key Verses:

• So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Yes, this is what John saw in a vision of the future.

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1


The Enemy and his angels at present are in heavenly places.


10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

• against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

JLB

 

[Randy]

Yes, this is what John saw in a vision of the future.

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1


The Enemy and his angels at present are in heavenly places.


10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

• against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

JLB

That war in which satan and his angels were cast to earth was in the past was in the past
Jesus=>He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

 

[calvin]

You can call me all the names you like.

Just show from the scriptures how Noah, as a son of God that produced Nephilim giants, had no Nephilim giants in his genealogy.

Since you claim Noah was the source of Nephilim giants, and not angels, then you are obligated to back up your theory with scripture.

Jlb, I'm not calling you names.
As for your mention of Nephilim Giants in Noah's geneology, what exactly are you asking? You say 'Nephilim giants' Nephilim were giants, so are you talking about giant giants or what?
There is no need to try to prove from Scripture that there were giants in either Noah's direct line of ascendancy or descendancy, why? because it was not necessary for them to be in his direct line.
There have always been tall races of human beings. The Anakim was an ancient one, the Masai being just one modern day one, and then you can research the change in men's height in the Netherlands over the past 200 years or so.

Angels are not needed or even involved in affecting the racial characteristics of the various races of man.
Angels have no corporal bodies. Angels can not trans-mutate into having human bodies.
Note well that even the Satan can only disguise itself as an angel of light, it can't actually become one.
Should an angel ever possess/invade a human body it would only be able to use whatever resources that body had to offer. ie it could not use the host body to produce some kind of a hybrid freak.
But what about the angels that went down to visit Sodom? you might say (and in deed have). They ate and drank as you said but what does that really prove? Does it prove that they were autonomous or that they were envoys of God empowered to accomplish His will?
Did it ever occur to you that even Gabriel is limited in what it can do? Consider:
Luk 1:18 And Zechariah said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.”
Luk 1:19 And the angel answered him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
Luk 1:20 And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time.”Esv.
Gabriel was on a mission not to do its own will but the will of God. Even an arch Angel can not operate outside its mandate.
Hasn't even the mentions of the Satan taught you anything?
Satan tricks Eve, Satan gets a curse.
Satan accuses Job, Satan is given strict guidelines as to what it could and could not do....twice).
Satan is compelled to see to the betrayal of Jesus. Yes, it would have known that the crucifixion of Jesus would be the final nail in its coffin, but it had no choice but to obey.
So the episode of the three visitors to Abraham that you cited proves nothing as far as angels being free agents.
You also posted :

This union produced Nephilim giants before and after the flood.The union between the sons of God and daughters of men

from post #272,
You seriously mean to suggest that the Lord God wiped out all life by the flood, but left the bad guy angels free to mess with humanity again? seriously?
In post #186, did you not post in relation to 2Pet 2:4,5. ::

Peter associates these angels who sinned with the time of Noah, as He also does in 1 Peter 3.

? We all saw how 1 Perter 3 was completely miss applied, But there we have you claiming that the angels who sinned got canned before the flood, but now all of a sudden, you now want then to mess with the human race after the flood too. What? did they escape from hell? Was there a second lot of angels that rebelled? What?
Well if you can't keep your reasoning consistent then I'm saying to myself, why would I bother trying to help you think things through?

 

[calvin]

Where in the world did they come from...?

It's a valid question Brother.

Yes it is. It is a question that can not be answered with authority.
It is entirely possible that there are a whole lot of entities about which we know nothing. We do not even know what exactly is meant by possession.
Is it dual occupancy or is it merely attachment to the host body, without actual indwelling.
Indwelling might be something reserved for exclusive use by the Holy Spirit?
We just don't know, which suggests to me at least that we are not meant to know. We should focus our energies on what we can know and that is spreading the message of salvation through Christ alone.

 

[Edward]

Yes it is. It is a question that can not be answered with authority.
It is entirely possible that there are a whole lot of entities about which we know nothing. We do not even know what exactly is meant by possession.
Is it dual occupancy or is it merely attachment to the host body, without actual indwelling.
Indwelling might be something reserved for exclusive use by the Holy Spirit?
We just don't know, which suggests to me at least that we are not meant to know. We should focus our energies on what we can know and that is spreading the message of salvation through Christ alone.

Do you hear what you're saying, Brother? We do know there's demon possession. It's all over scripture. We don't know? We're not meant to know? Brother...some of us do know. That you refuse to receive it is...your choice. Perhaps you would be better off focusing your energies somewhere else, like you say.

If you really don't know...then why are you here telling others that they're wrong? No offense but you're not making sense Brother.

 

[calvin]

Do you hear what you're saying, Brother? We do know there's demon possession. It's all over scripture. We don't know? We're not meant to know? Brother...some of us do know. That you refuse to receive it is...your choice. Perhaps you would be better off focusing your energies somewhere else, like you say.

If you really don't know...then why are you here telling others that they're wrong? No offense but you're not making sense Brother.

Think you so?.
Then tell me.. a person who is demon possessed, does the demon simply have ownership from without that person such as a cowboy possesses his horse, or from within perhaps having displaced or bound the person's soul that is possessed?
BTW Matt 12:43-45 and Luke 11: 24-26 do not answer my question so please don't waist my time by using them.
If I don't know something I'm not afraid to say so. If someone is sprouting absolute rubbish I'm not afraid to say so either.

 

[JLB]

As for your mention of Nephilim Giants in Noah's geneology, what exactly are you asking?

Your theory states that it was sons of God [godly men] that had relations with with women, in which Nephilim giants were born to them.

I am stating the obvious, since the sons of God continued to produce Nephilim giants after the flood then they were unaffected by the flood.

Which means the sons of God were angels, not men, since all flesh was wiped out by the flood, except Noah and his family.

If you still believe the sons of God was a reference to "godly men", and not angels then that would mean that Noah was the source of the Nephilim giants.


Since the only offspring listed in scripture, of the sons of God and the daughters of men is Nephilim giants, then all of Noah's offspring would be Nephilim giants based on your theory.

• I am asking you to show from the genealogy of Noah's offspring where there are Nephilim giants listed?

JLB

 

[JLB]

That war in which satan and his angels were cast to earth was in the past was in the past
Jesus=>He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Yes, I agree that Satan was removed from heaven where God is. The third heaven.

However, he and his angels and still in heavenly places.

As Paul taught us.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

• against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

However the day will come when Satan and his angels will be cast down to the earth, during the 31/2 years associated with the tribulation.

It will be the last 31/2 years before Satan is bound and cast into hell for 1000 years, which is why the scripture says -

For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Revelation 12:7-14





Now he is still called the prince of the power of the air.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, Ephesians 2:1-2



JLB

 

[Edward]

Think you so?.
Then tell me.. a person who is demon possessed, does the demon simply have ownership from without that person such as a cowboy possesses his horse, or from within perhaps having displaced or bound the person's soul that is possessed?
BTW Matt 12:43-45 and Luke 11: 24-26 do not answer my question so please don't waist my time by using them.
If I don't know something I'm not afraid to say so. If someone is sprouting absolute rubbish I'm not afraid to say so either.

I don't think I have the answer to your question. Perhaps the persons soul is bound by them, having been given access through the invitation...of not hearing, listening to and obeying the Lord's Spirit? This would be something that you should pray about, and learn from the Holy Spirit about.

Don't waste your time with scripture? Whoa. That's a new one.
I don't know everything either. I have many faults. But I do know that when I hear truth, there is a vibration which reaches down into my soul and becomes a part of me.

I don't believe how you can deny demon possession though, it's all over scripture. We may not understand...we only need to believe and trust.

 

[JLB]

Do you hear what you're saying, Brother? We do know there's demon possession. It's all over scripture. We don't know? We're not meant to know? Brother...some of us do know. That you refuse to receive it is...your choice. Perhaps you would be better off focusing your energies somewhere else, like you say.

If you really don't know...then why are you here telling others that they're wrong? No offense but you're not making sense Brother.

Now you know what is driving his post's.



JLB

 

[Randy]

Yes, I agree that Satan was removed from heaven where God is. The third heaven.

However, he and his angels and still in heavenly places.

As Paul taught us.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

• against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

However the day will come when Satan and his angels will be cast down to the earth, during the 31/2 years associated with the tribulation.

It will be the last 31/2 years before Satan is bound and cast into hell for 1000 years, which is why the scripture says -

For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Revelation 12:7-14





Now he is still called the prince of the power of the air.


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, Ephesians 2:1-2



JLB

YET IT WAS WRITTEN SATAN AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST TO EARTH. I don't believe there are any of satans angels in the 3rd heaven were God dwells. They were all cast out.