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But I am saying that...
Now, don't avoid the question again. Please explain how when a person believes in vain that makes "you are saved if you hold fast the word"* not true for those who have not believed in vain.
That is totally true. And no one has shown that I've done any such thing.
This is totally confused. Nothing has been spliced.
There you go: the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.
The problem continues with your unbiblical "interpretation" by claiming that one must continue to believe. Paul never taught that. One isn't saved by continuing to believe. They are saved WHEN they believe and then they ARE SEALED with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Eternal security.
This ought to be interesting.
How 'bout that! And so did the crowd in Matt 7:21-23, where Jesus told the lot of them; "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity."
He sure did.
He was NEVER saved. What would give anyone such an idea?? As I pointed out, he did the same things the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 did, and Jesus NEVER KNEW them.
See post 862 for all that is needed to refute such ideas.Denial is not an argument.
It's written clear as day in our Bibles, but I understand how the power of indoctrinations work: When the church teaches it's people to rationalize away plain scripture over and over and over the church will indeed not be able to see the truth anymore. But an honest, seeking heart will eventually see the truth and be set free from these indoctrinations.
While it is important that God's people be set free from these spirits at work in the church today to lead her astray it is equally important that insincere people in the church be drawn away by them. That's God plan. Let's just be careful to be on the right side of that plan.
It's a present tense holding onto the gospel that you are presently saved by. But you have decided for the sake of your doctrine that it is a past tense verb that says it is a holding fast one did in the past that accomplished salvation at that time in the past and does of necessity have to continue in the present for one to be saved. But any honest Christian can check this out for themselves and see that what I say is correct, and that what you tech is not:
2by which also you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB parenthesis mine)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002
http://ezraproject.com/id27.html
People who take the time to investigate this because they are honest, and courageous enough to face the truth, and they then continue in their faith because of what they have learned, they will be my reward for my labor in the building of God. They are my work in the building of God. Those who don't listen can't be my reward for sharing this truth because if they don't continue to hold fast the word in order to be presently saved they will not be saved but will be burned up in the final Judgment. They will be as hay, wood, and stubble and won't be on the other side of the fire to be a reward for me. The teachers who labor in the building of God to build these kinds of people (hay, wood, and stubble) into the building of God will see their work burned up. And depending on if they started out in and continued in the gospel word, they may or may not pass through themselves. Harsh words, but this is exactly what the Bible tells us.
But by all means, Freegrace, if you can provide some credible source that says the holding fast of the word and the salvation it produces is past tense and does not have to continue in order to be saved please share it. You just saying it is past tense isn't going to cut it in the face of the credible sources I've cited above.
Post 862 refutes your ideas. I don't need to keep repeating myself.
Your question doesn't make any sense to me. How does "when a person believes in vain" make anything not true? That is basically your question. As if one who believes in vain makes something else not true. It doesn't. Your question has no answer because it is nonsensical.
My point is the same as Paul's point. God has a full number of people He has in His mind to give Eternal Life. Loosing even just one person (or more) who received Eternal Life would mean (if true) God's full number is lacking one (or more).
Okay. Accounted for.
Disregarding the fact that Eternal Life is a gift of God's in Christ Jesus (Rom 6:23) will lead some to misunderstand and think Eternal Life is an earned reward based on their superiority to Christ Jesus.
"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15: NASB)
This is funny.
Everybody who presently believes had to believe somewhere in the past. And salvation does indeed start at that moment, but that hardly negates the fact that the Bible also says you have to keep believing in order to keep being saved. Besides, Jesus is relating the story after the fact. Of course you use the aorist tense to do that. But like I say, you have no argument anyway since the Bible says in plain words that you have to keep believing to be saved. These are the plain and simple words of the Bible that have been suppressed by the work of a spirit at work in the Protestant church. But God's sheep who are able to hear his voice will eventually realize that. The question is, will they listen? Or will they be lost with the others who decide to not keep believing to the very end in order to be saved in the very end, and lead others astray into the same error?
This is not in contention (not by me anyway). You are indeed truly saved the moment you believe. You receive all that salvation is in this life when you first believe with the promise of what is to come. But the Bible also says you have to continue to believe to continue to be saved. That is the point of contention. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 plainly says that you are saved if you keep hold of the gospel word by which you were saved. Plain as day.
Let's try it again.
I believe your attempts to dissociate Rom 6:23 from Rom 11:29 are becoming quite comical.
There has been a total failure to show that I've ignored any context. And there is NO context that changes the absolute FACT that the gift of eternal life is irrevocable.
Do you seriously think anyone would fall for this absurd "interpretation"?
What I've done is prove that the gift of eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God.
I only took your own post and showed that Judas did ALL the things that the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 did. And Jesus' response to them.
Uh, the biblical word is "irrevocably saved", from Rom 11:29 about the gifts of God. Salvation being one of those gifts, from Eph 2:8.
Well, I'm glad that you do.
Not even close. Unless someone can show from Scripture that being irrevocable can mean that it may be taken away or lost, you don't have a point.
Actually, I'm tiring of these games and twisted explanations.
Yes.
Correct. But it does mean He knows who will be saved and more directly applicable to my point means He knows who is counted (numerically) as being saved.
Exactly. Yet your theory (if it were true) has setup a theoretical situation where God counts the very person He foreknew as one of the saved (adding them into the accumulation of the number of saved people) then has to subtract them out later on (subtracting them from the accumulation) when/if they become ex-believers (i.e. He repents/revokes His gift/calling). Thus revoking their saved status and subtracting them from His total number. Yet Romans 11:29 says God's gifts and callings are irrevocable (without repentance, take your pick of which English word to use) specifically because (For the very reason) the full number of Gentiles must come in.
Yep. Paul told this to Gentiles too. God never (not once) repents, regrets, revokes any of His calling or of His gifts. God doesn't make mistakes in math either.