Rev 20 is quite clear. Satan is bound for a 1000 years so He can't lead the nations astray anymore. God gave us the 1000 years in scripture. I read and believe what God has given as truth. I think GOD is giving JESUS the 1000 years to rule over the nations before Jesus turns the reigns back over to God after the last enemy is destroyed which is death. Then the Father will come down and dwell with man. The new jerusalem will come down to the earth after the 1000 years are ended.
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Why I can't believe in rapture theory
- Thread starter joseph lentz
- Start date
Cygnus
Member
The 1000 years could be for God to show mankind...despite Satan being locked up....mankind still sins.
Randy, I know that is what the scriptures say and no one can deny reading it, but I also read it as symbolic like those other scriptures I gave in post #90. In Rev 11:14 the seventh trumpet sounds as the second woe is finished and the third woe comes quickly. 1000 years is not a quick period of time as I believe everything from the seventh trumpet spoken of in Rev 11:15 up to the end of Rev 20 is going to be done very quickly on the last day, John 6:40. Think about this, why would God after the return of Christ, allow us to suffer here on this present earth full of sin for 1000 years after Christ returns and before ushering down the New Jerusalem. You can believe in a literal 1000, but I will believe a symbolic 1000. The most important point is that we are prepared to meet Jesus when He returns for His Bride.
GOD was very specific with the 1000 years. Satan is not thrown into the lake of fire but bound a 1000 years so HE can't mislead the nations anymore. So IF there is no 1000 years how do you reconcile the delayed judgment. The beast and false prophet go straight into the lake of fire at the 2nd coming. Rule over the nations with an iron sceptor- if only christians are left who are those the saints and Jesus ruling over? Certainly not the children of God. (Us) AT the final judgement every name not found in the book of life from the foundation of the world is cast into the fire (2nd death) Thats after the 1000 years is completed then death itself is cast into the fire and the CITY built by God the new jerusalem comes down to earth as well as the father. (God) GOD will make everything new. There is no more sea.
The beasts reign is 42 months so from the last sign given REV 11 (the beast kills the 2 witnesses) until rev 16:15 (2nd coming/ressurrection) it is less than 4 years. the beasts released at the sounding of the 5th trump call of god. SO the 5-7 trumps and bowl judgments are during the reign of the beast. The bowl judgments are the judgements that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkeness.
I never said only Christians are left after Satan is bound. Satan is bound for a time that I believe to be symbolic and then after his release goes forth to the four corners of the earth to deceive the nations as he draws those who are none of Christ once again into battle against the worldwide camp of the saints, but instead of accomplishing this he is taken and cast into the lake of fire. The great white throne judgement comes immediately after that and those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life are also cast into the lake of fire and we who of Christ will forever be with the Lord in the new Jerusalem that will be ushered down. This all happens in the last day, John 6:40, and we have to remember it's all in Gods timing and not a literal 24 hour day for who knows how long a day is with the Lord.
markathome
Member
Is it not possible for some of the events in Revelation to repeat themselves?
Is it not possible for some of the plagues in Revelation to be cast against entire countries because they broke Revelation 22:18
Is it not possible for some of the plagues in Revelation to be cast against entire countries because they broke Revelation 22:18
History does repeat itself like the plagues in the OT are what we will see again during the time of the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen nor will ever see again during the time of Gods great wrath that will be poured out globally.
How long is satan bound? When will Gog and magog attack when will the new jerusalem come down from heaven ? IF you don't hold to the 1000 years how many years do you hold to? How did you calculate that number? OR you can just teach what is written. God isn't the one causing confusion.
I hold to the fact that the third woe being the seventh trumpet comes quickly in Gods timing as God does not go by our time 24 hour a day time table, Rev 11:14, 15.
THE reign of the beast is 42 months. Rleased at the sounding of the 5th trump call. So the 7th trump would be sounded "quickly" in terms of time. The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness.REV 16:10 The last day-REV 16:15; 2 thess2:8
Randy, Rev chapter 9 mentions nothing of a beast that reigns for 42 months, but does say the angel (star) opens the pit and a hoard of locust (smoke) rise up to torment the people on Gods command with Abaddon (Apollyon) the destroying angel of God being king over them. Where do you read the last day in Rev 16:15? I see Jesus saying He will come as a thief and for us to keep watch and keep ourselves in Him.
REV 16:15 certianly is a coming of the lord fro the great battle of God almighty. SAtan gathers His armies visible and invisible read further into the bowl judgements 2 thess 2:8 Daniel 12:1
REV 13:5 - 42 months
I can agree with all of that, but you still did not answer my question "Where do you read the last day in Rev 16:15?"
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
This is a description of how Jesus will return to those who have rejected Him, but yet it is not the last day like that which Jesus speaks of in John 6:40 where he is specific on the last day He will raise us up.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
I only hold to 2 comings of the Lord. The next or 2nd coming is to gather the wheat into the barn and to pull up the weeds. Hence the great battle of God almighty is at rev 16:15 a coming of the lord. And its on the last day.
You say Jesus returns during the seventh vial being poured out, but it only says that Jesus will come as a thief in the night. During the seven vial judgements Jesus is giving warning to those who have not accepted Him yet as He says He will come as a thief in the night, not that He is coming at that very moment.
Armageddon is not a literal place you can locate on a map, but is symbolic of many areas north of Israel where the great battles of the Old Testament were fought. Armageddon derives from the Hebrew word Har-mageddon which means the Hill of Megiddo which is found in the Carmel mountains. Megiddo is mentioned in the Old Testament as the site where Joshua conquered one of the thirty one Canaanite kings, Joshua 12:21. Deborah and Barak defeated the army of Sisera in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo, Judges 5:19. Megiddo is the ancient city that was formerly a Canaanite stronghold. The city was occupied by the Israelite's under King Solomon who reconstructed the city as one of his storage cities, 1 Kings 9:15-19.
Joel calls this the valley of decision as multitudes of people are gathered there, Joel 3:14. This is why Jesus says to be watchful as He will come as a thief in the night to those who have no Spiritual relationship with Him. There are an estimated seven billion people living in the world today with only a small percentage of them being truly Spiritually born-again so this gathering can not take place in one specific area found in the Carmel mountains as this gathering is that of one like mind.
The multitudes and multitudes are those of every nation who have no knowledge of the true Christ and have been deceived by the beast and the false prophet taking its mark. Revelation 1:7 says every eye will see Jesus coming in the clouds. This means everyone all around the world simultaneously will see Jesus coming in the clouds with His mighty army.
Armageddon is not a literal place you can locate on a map, but is symbolic of many areas north of Israel where the great battles of the Old Testament were fought. Armageddon derives from the Hebrew word Har-mageddon which means the Hill of Megiddo which is found in the Carmel mountains. Megiddo is mentioned in the Old Testament as the site where Joshua conquered one of the thirty one Canaanite kings, Joshua 12:21. Deborah and Barak defeated the army of Sisera in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo, Judges 5:19. Megiddo is the ancient city that was formerly a Canaanite stronghold. The city was occupied by the Israelite's under King Solomon who reconstructed the city as one of his storage cities, 1 Kings 9:15-19.
Joel calls this the valley of decision as multitudes of people are gathered there, Joel 3:14. This is why Jesus says to be watchful as He will come as a thief in the night to those who have no Spiritual relationship with Him. There are an estimated seven billion people living in the world today with only a small percentage of them being truly Spiritually born-again so this gathering can not take place in one specific area found in the Carmel mountains as this gathering is that of one like mind.
The multitudes and multitudes are those of every nation who have no knowledge of the true Christ and have been deceived by the beast and the false prophet taking its mark. Revelation 1:7 says every eye will see Jesus coming in the clouds. This means everyone all around the world simultaneously will see Jesus coming in the clouds with His mighty army.
The bible states "behold I come .... Like a thief "BEHOLD I COME" is what I read.
Did you read the part where He comes like a thief, for the wicked, and those who are asleep, but not for the children of light who watch for the signs He gave for us to watch for.
The Lord is not coming as a thief in the night for me, because I can read what the Bible says about His coming.
Is He coming as a thief in the night for you?
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:6
- But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
JLB
Those who read The Olivet Discourse, know and understand that Jesus is coming for His Church, after the Tribulation of those days, which is the biggest sign of His coming.
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27
The gathering of His Church, at His coming, is the resurrection of the dead in Christ first, then those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together.
This catching up together, is the gathering, that takes place at His coming.
- The antichrist will also be destroyed by Jesus, at this same coming, by which He gathers His people.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Point Number 1:
- The resurrection of the dead in Christ will take place at His coming, before the rapture.
Point Number 2:
- The rapture takes place, just a moment after the resurrection, in which all His people will be gathered together to be with Him, in the air. The resurrection/rapture is one event, at His coming.
Point Number 3:
The same coming of the Lord, by which the Lord gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture, also destroys the antichrist.
- Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 Thessalonians 2:1
- And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
The coming of the Lord to gather together His people unto Himself; the resurrection/rapture is the same coming that destroys the antichrist.
JLB
I agree that the 2nd coming, and I only hold to 2, will be to harvest the wheat into the barn and pull up the weeds. Daniel 12:1 2thess 2:8; rev 16:15 the same event but those who were deceived into following and worshipping the beast will be caught by surprise as they did not believe the last sign given before the great tribulation begins (rev 11-1260 days )as a loving God warns and warns upfront.