stovebolts
Member
What if you address the scripture at face value?God was commenting on Sarah's thoughts, He wasn't answering a request. I suppose if Abraham had asked, God would've been honest with him.
.
Have a good evening.
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
What if you address the scripture at face value?God was commenting on Sarah's thoughts, He wasn't answering a request. I suppose if Abraham had asked, God would've been honest with him.
.
he still had to if Abraham said this is sarai my wife, what would have happened? something else and god would have protected them from the Egyptians and philistines.
so you are saying that god didn't think he would marry her? odd if there wasn't any plan to if Abraham was honest. if I didn't know some attractive woman was a mans wife and sister and did the same and sinned. how would I ever know if she didn't tell me or Abraham. if I did marry her and she then said I have Abraham for a husband. whom would go kill? not her. Abraham? thus my point, even if its off whether they sinned. they perceived her as a free lady, no thanks to that sorry man at the time.
Not at all Stovebolts...I hope you don't think I'm sowing discord. I don't see anyone else sowing discord at the moment either.
To be honest, yes I've been having fun. But only to spur thinking from the heart that our eyes would be opened to the great mercies of our Lord.
Exactly my post also...But only to spur thinking from the heart that our eyes would be opened to the great mercies of our Lord.
What if you address the scripture at face value?
Have a good evening.
war is seldom black and white.
did you know that this nation asked the mafia in new York to patrol the shores of the manhattan island? why because they had the arms and the boats to patrol. for the cost of all prior crimes we know about. they disappear. sometimes the greater evil must be dealt with first. I don't like that but that is the world we live in. I don't live in a bubble.
oh, I wont go there but well I know that and its importance to be asked.
you can also go into the lying spirit in the book of the kings where god basically said whom shall lie for me.
Nothing
This isn't about Gods honesty. Its about Abraham's relationship with his wife.
If you hold to a strict reading of the text, Sarah said nothing. She thought these things, but she did not say them.
You said if we hold back from the whole truth, that's deception. Why didn't God tell Abraham that Sarah thought he (Abraham) was too old to have children? Wouldn't that be deceptive?
Thoughts?
Has anyone here yet mentioned God sending a lying spirit to prophets?
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
[just saw Jason picked it up by general reference on the last page]
That contradicts what you stared earlier. You said if part of the story is purposely withheld, then that's deciet. Clearly, God withholds Sarah's thoughts about Abraham being too old.Genesis 18
9 Then they said to him, “Where is Sarah your wife?” So he said, “Here, in the tent.”
10 And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.” (Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.)
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
13 And the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I surely bear a child, since I am old?’
I see nothing in this passage that would lead anyone to assume God was being deceitful.
To make a case that God was being dishonest, one would have to show that Abraham expected God to share the entire contents of Sarah's thoughts. Abraham had no expectations.
That's what I see at face value.
.
That contradicts what you stared earlier. You said if part of the story is purposely withheld, then that's deciet. Clearly, God withholds Sarah's thoughts about Abraham being too old.
If you only provide a part of the truth but claim it is the whole truth, then yes it's lying.
Back to God withholding Sarah's thoughts to Abraham. Are you saying it was Abraham's duty to interrogate God on the matter? It is clear that God purposely leaves Sarah's remarks out of the conversation. Question is, why?
So it is true that Sarah did speak, but only in her mind. But, if you don't know about God, then the text makes God out to be a liar.
In order for us not to view God as a liar, we have to understand that God knows our thoughts and our hearts. This keeps us from stumbling over the text. Its part of discernment.
...And just for future reference, I've never viewed God as a liar.
.
That's the best thing we have going for us in this God of ours. No deception. No lies. Absolutely trustworthy and honorable...!!! Wow! Praise the Lord for that!
This world is soo full of deception and lies...it makes it hard to comprehend concepts such as these.
I'm not saying it was deceptive... Hence the ? Gary said in a previous post that intentionally withholding the truth was deceptive.No brother. That is not deceptive. That's more along the lines of...one leading the conversation, thus provoking the other to think...like a teacher or something. Don't just blurt out all the answers but try to develop a line of thought in the student, critical thinking and so forth. See what I mean?
Has anyone here yet mentioned God sending a lying spirit to prophets?
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
Let's assume I know nothing of God. Show me how the text makes God out to be a liar.
You mean like this?
1 Samuel 16
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
And just for future reference, I've never viewed God as a liar.
.
If you think in critical terms, God looks like a liar.
What is my point? Black and white thinking puts on a set of blinders and blinds us from the truth. If we put blinders on the passages posted, God could be percieved as a liar.
I'm not saying it was deceptive... Hence the ? Gary said in a previous post that intentionally withholding the truth was deceptive.
But I think its a bit more than critical thinking... I think its about not saying things for the sake of peace when whatever you say doesn't better the situation.
Your argument falls flat when we note in Scripture that God views our thoughts as our speech, for "out of the heart the mouth speaketh" (Lk 6:45). So for God (because of who He is) Sarah's thoughts and speech were identical.What is my point? Black and white thinking puts on a set of blinders and blinds us from the truth. If we put blinders on the passages posted, God could be percieved as a liar.