Is It Possible For A Christian To Fall From "Grace"?

[Mike S]

Two different times. He would get a little fired up when he would see this.
Looks like Luke was just describing it in more detail.
Do you mean the exact day or what happened on that day?

Does this mean you believe Jesus chased moneychangers from the temple on two different occasions?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Does this mean you believe Jesus chased moneychangers from the temple on two different occasions?

When I was reading today, to respond......it looks like 2 different occasions. First time, was after his first miracle of water into wine. He goes into the temple courts and gets mad "Zeal for your house will consume me"

Second time, he was further into this ministry and he rode into town on the donkey. The people were still doing the same stuff. (no surprise) He went into the temple area and "My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"

It is cool, cause at the end of that he quotes " 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'"

I was going to mention that my avatar goes along with it. If you can believe Jesus was raised from the dead and ascended bodily in heaven, you can believe anything the bible says.

We've arrived at this point only because I've challenged the idea that there is a "plain saying" to all scriptures, meaning no opinions or interpretations.

The scriptures are for sure not opinion, but recounting of events. But also, they have prophecy mixed in there. They are eye witness accounts, but they fit together like a puzzle.

 

[Karl]

Was Jesus crucified on Passover, or the day before? All four Gospels state that Jesus was killed on the day of preparation, but John seems to disagree with the others on the timing of the last supper (was it a Passover feast?) and whether or not Jesus was slain at the time of the slaughtering of lambs for sacrifice. Some reading the Gospel of John believe that the author of the Gospel placed Jesus' death to occur at the same time as the slaughter of the lambs in order to reinforce the narrative of His being the "Lamb of God." Certainly the Gospel of John is filled with Passover symbolism.

These interpretations, or inconsistencies, don't bother me, they don't challenge my faith. The Gospels are not meant to be absolutely historically accurate in every detail and timing, as if they were eye witness reports in a criminal trial. They are stories of the "good news" of Jesus' life from the point of view of different authors.

We've arrived at this point only because I've challenged the idea that there is a "plain saying" to all scriptures, meaning no opinions or interpretations. For someone who take the position of absolute inerrancy of scripture's every word, these inconsistencies would seem to be a problem. They aren't a problem for me.

Mike, with over 300 prophesy's concerning the birth, life and death of Jesus in the Old Testament and everyone was fulfilled, shouldn't we think His Crucifixion would coincide with the Old Testament requirements?

If His fore runner, John the Baptist, declared Jesus to be the Lamb of God, fulfilling Abraham's prophecy Gen 22:8 and God told Moses to choose the Passover Lamb on the 10th of Nisan, which coincides with the Triumphal Entry John 12:14, 15, which we are told was the first day of the week, and the lamb was to be slaughtered on the 14th of Nisan, four days later, then remembering the first day of the week for the Jews is our Sunday, then isn't it fairly simple to count four days to determine what day He was crucified on?

 

[JLB]

Mike, with over 300 prophesy's concerning the birth, life and death of Jesus in the Old Testament and everyone was fulfilled, shouldn't we think His Crucifixion would coincide with the Old Testament requirements?

If His fore runner, John the Baptist, declared Jesus to be the Lamb of God, fulfilling Abraham's prophecy Gen 22:8 and God told Moses to choose the Passover Lamb on the 10th of Nisan, which coincides with the Triumphal Entry John 12:14, 15, which we are told was the first day of the week, and the lamb was to be slaughtered on the 14th of Nisan, four days later, then remembering the first day of the week for the Jews is our Sunday, then isn't it fairly simple to count four days to determine what day He was crucified on?

He was crucified on the Friday the day before the Sabbath.

He rose on the First day of the week Sunday. The Lords Day.

Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
Matthew 28:1


JLB

 

[Mike S]

Mike, with over 300 prophesy's concerning the birth, life and death of Jesus in the Old Testament and everyone was fulfilled, shouldn't we think His Crucifixion would coincide with the Old Testament requirements?

If His fore runner, John the Baptist, declared Jesus to be the Lamb of God, fulfilling Abraham's prophecy Gen 22:8 and God told Moses to choose the Passover Lamb on the 10th of Nisan, which coincides with the Triumphal Entry John 12:14, 15, which we are told was the first day of the week, and the lamb was to be slaughtered on the 14th of Nisan, four days later, then remembering the first day of the week for the Jews is our Sunday, then isn't it fairly simple to count four days to determine what day He was crucified on?

Karl,

I'm not disputing which day Jesus was crucified, I'm just pointing out that there are inconsistencies between the Gospels.

 

[Karl]

He was crucified on the Friday the day before the Sabbath.

He rose on the First day of the week Sunday. The Lords Day.

Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
Matthew 28:1


JLB

Forgetting the Old Testament typology of the first Passover in Egypt, ....if I remember correctly, Jesus said, when asked for a sign, the sign was to be the sign of Jonah, three days and three nights in the tomb.

So lets count the nights,

Friday night, .........that's one night.
Saturday night, .........that's two nights.

And like you said He rose on Sunday.

Where I live 1 + 1 = 2, .....not 3!

So you must be implying Jesus was either unsure Himself or He was lying?

No......, let's look at the Old Testament typology of the first passover in Egypt.

You said the first day of the week is Sunday, God told Moses to choose a Passover Lamb on the 14th of Nisan and to kill it four days later, if Jesus presented Himself as the Jewish Messiah on the first day of the week, which you say is Sunday,

Let's count four days,

Sunday, .....first day,
Monday, .......second day,
Tuesday, third day,
Wednesday, fourth day,

and a Jewish day starts at sunset and ends at sunset 24 hours later,

if I can count correctly that means the Last Supper and Arrest of Jesus was Wednesday night, after 6:00 PM, His trail, scourging and crucifixion was (what we call) Thursday morning, at 3:00 Pm Thursday afternoon he gave up His spirit and died..............,

let's do the math,

Thursday night, .........night one,
Friday night, ..........night two,
Saturday night, ..........night three

Thursday, .....day one,
Friday, ........day two,
Saturday, ......day three,

Me thinks Jesus knew what He was talking about, ...three days and three nights.

 

[Karl]

Karl,

I'm not disputing which day Jesus was crucified, I'm just pointing out that there are inconsistencies between the Gospels.

Mike, please tell me how an totally infinitely intelligent God could write inconsistencies in His WORD.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Looks like Luke was just describing it in more detail.

LovethroughDove,
I think people tend to forgret that Luke was a "physician" so He used much more detail then most and wrote and taught and talked this way. Example.....others said the man had leprosy but Luke said "great leprosy or full of leprosy" . See Love through Dove, People knock and twist stuff that they do not understand or reason through the natural mind (carnal mined).

They do the same with the book of ACTS........they throw itout because the way it was written....fools they are and here is why.........The book of acts was written as a documentary and meant to be read as a documentary and Luke explains this by all the people he said he talked to and dug into things.....I mean what do you expect, I mean I read in here that Matthew did not walk with Jesus.....How dumb can some get ?

Like you and others I too believe if the written word says it then that simply the way it is....End of discussion !
Haver a wonderful week end Love throughdove
Jim

 

[LovethroughDove]

Hi Jim - I'm going to tie these last posts together with the title of this thread. (Grace) By the Grace of God, we can even get some kind of revelation from our creator of his purpose and plan for our lives.

I feel like those who cherish this grace, will never fall from it.

I love all of the writers in the bible, cause they cherished it also. I see their personalities through their writing.

You have a great rest of your week also....

 

[bluegirl]

I think it's true that a Christian can fall from grace because Paul says we can fall from grace:

"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NASB)

The Galatians were falling from grace by turning away from it to that which is not grace. Grace in this context was the grace of salvation found in faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and the receiving of a declaration of righteousness as a gift, as opposed to earning it through one's own righteous work.

But here the fall from grace has to do with not accepting Jesus and his sacrifice, the new covenant. We can choose the tree of Life which is Jesus, or instead continue the original sin by trusting in the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil, the laws that necessarily follow due to the Fall. But Jesus has brought the good news and paid for our sins; when we follow Jesus we now follow the law of love; we are new. We are only justified by Jesus and his sacrifice, nothing else suffices.

 

[bluegirl]

The answer depends on whether you're Calvinist or Arminian in your beliefs.

Explain please.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

But here the fall from grace has to do with not accepting Jesus and his sacrifice, the new covenant. We can choose the tree of Life which is Jesus, or instead continue the original sin by trusting in the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil, the laws that necessarily follow due to the Fall. But Jesus hasbrought the good news and paid for our sins; when we follow Jesus we now follow the law of love; we are new. We are only justified by Jesus and his sacrifice, nothing else suffices.

The fall from grace was again simply Paul showing them that they are trading the grace of God and His new plan of salvation for the old ways of doing things that wont get you there.
Why is this thread still going on and on about this.....

 

[bluegirl]

The fall from grace was again simply Paul showing them that they are trading the grace of God and His new plan of salvation for the old ways of doing things that wont get you there.
Why is this thread still going on and on about this.....

Because humans like to communicate. And, it is hard to catch fish if you don't drop a line.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Because humans like to communicate.

Is that communicate or argue ? Besides I liked what you said and agreed with you.

 

[bluegirl]

Is that communicate or argue ? Besides I liked what you said and agreed with you.

well I was speaking diplomatically and assuming that Christians have no need to argue. I can't think why they would. And I added a line to my last post.

 

[bluegirl]

When I think of grace I am struck by my own inability to grasp it. I end up wondering how that ties in with being known by God in advance, chosen, and how those not touched by grace remain unknown, untouched by God. My measly brain can't quite get it beyond being thankful that I found Jesus and his love.

 

[bluegirl]

For some reason a reply I thought I just made did not register? ;( I was saying that I always assume Christians have no need to argue.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

bluegirl Hi,
You know I struggled with this for awhile some time ago and these two prayers of Paul totally changed the way I grasped this. Now it will take some discipline to carry this out but spend time everyday reading this. Pray this prayer out to God (both) and every day remind Him of this and pray along those thoughts in your own words from your heart and ALAWAYS remember to Thank Him for showing you and this part is KEY.....BELIEVE that you have this wisdom.....see it in your spirit being so strong it feels like you can just speak it. Then you will find that His word is bringing new revolations of His truth into your spirit. Believe me please.......it is the way to His heart and not to mention any time we pray with His word it is Yes and Amen !!

Any way here....
Ephesians 1: 15-23 and 3: 14-21
The wisdom and understanding is yours bluegirl !!
Jim

 

[bluegirl]

Being new I am just reading the bible a lot so that is my only reference. I will read those. Thank you. ;]

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Being new I am just reading the bible a lot so that is my only reference. I will read those. Thank you. ;]

Wow then that is even more of a good deal for you....this way you will begin to gain more understanding as you read. I found for me, that when I pray and before I read His word I thank Him that He is teaching me understanding of His word.

OBTW.... Congradulations on being New and for Making the best choice ever to be Born again into the Family of God !! Welcome and may God fill you unto overflowing with His love and peace and understanding. You Are Blessed
Jim