Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[GodsGrace]

Eph: 2

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grams,
Thanks for adding 9. My mistake.

W

 

[barelohim]

I think like Hebrews 9/10/11..relates the old covenant and the new covenants.. " the blood of bulls and goats could not make one perfect in conscience, because the service reminded them of their sin conscientiousness every time it was performed ( something like the " confessional ". But the blood of Christ gives us a more "righteousness" conscienceness, ( from dead works)... because " righteousness" is now a part of our new nature.

 

[Chopper]

No one, no not one, avoids the condemnation of sin in the flesh, courtesy of The Laws. Not looking at the law will not avoid the conclusion (EZ's sight) nor will law keeping (Choppers sight), avoid the conclusion.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

This conclusion can not be changed by anyone. Not by keeping and not by running away.

From these two vanities we get:

Denials of Gods Word
Legal sinners
Sin under Grace
Obedient sinners

Everybody has their own special and unique twists on this subject.

But few can simply step into the fact that the scriptures have concluded ALL under sin. This one just doesn't seem all that appealing to anyone for some odd reason.

Is there something WRONG with the conclusion? Or the readers?

I hear what you're saying Smaller. I'm still confused by negative posts about observing the Law of Moses and I simply see it as important to God that I don't murder someone. I don't view Moses Law as a source of Salvation, righteousness, making me a better Christian, or in any way makes me closer to Elohim, whether the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.

I have a neighbor named Tim. I was able to lead him to Salvation in Christ Jesus about 8 years ago. By his own confession, he said that he watched me and knew there was something in my life that he needed. My life is a blend of appreciating the 10 Commandments plus the Commands of Jesus the Son of God. That's what he saw.

Tim has never read in the news paper that I killed someone. He has never heard that I beat up my father or slapped my mother. He has never heard that I stole a car. Tim has, as they say, a hot Wife. Tim has never had to worry about me "hitting" on his pretty Wife. All this is because I have observed what the 10 Commandments say about what God doesn't want His children involved in.

If it wasn't for Moses Law, I would never have known what God hates. If Jesus hadn't put forth His Commands, I would be living a wicked lifestyle. Sure, the Laws show me sin, but also the Laws of God show how to live a lifestyle that He approves of.

 

[smaller]

I hear what you're saying Smaller. I'm still confused by negative posts about observing the Law of Moses

I love Gods Law and Gods Word. Every single jot and tittle of same.

I do take the Law precisely for the condemnation of sin indwelling and evil present in my own flesh and I do not EVER expect it to be lawful, obedient or 'observing' the facts that the Law exposes.

I accept the GUILTY verdict to these workings in my flesh, courtesy of the LAW. I have nothing else to say but GUILTY.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This conclusion, I FULLY accept.

and I simply see it as important to God that I don't murder someone.

Jesus magnified the law to the point where the mere THOUGHT of murder is the same as MURDER IN HEART.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

External views of sin trying to dodge the fact of sin's utter condemnation, are just dodge ball being played by indwelling sin/evil present with us, which by the way are demonic deceptions. Telling us we are not sinners because we didn't murder or telling us we didn't commit adultery in heart because we didn't do the external deed.

That was never the case in the sight of God in Christ.

I don't view Moses Law as a source of Salvation, righteousness, making me a better Christian, or in any way makes me closer to Elohim, whether the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.

I have a neighbor named Tim. I was able to lead him to Salvation in Christ Jesus about 8 years ago. By his own confession, he said that he watched me and knew there was something in my life that he needed. My life is a blend of appreciating the 10 Commandments plus the Commands of Jesus the Son of God. That's what he saw.

Tim has never read in the news paper that I killed someone. He has never heard that I beat up my father or slapped my mother. He has never heard that I stole a car. Tim has, as they say, a hot Wife. Tim has never had to worry about me "hitting" on his pretty Wife. All this is because I have observed what the 10 Commandments say about what God doesn't want His children involved in.

If it wasn't for Moses Law, I would never have known what God hates. If Jesus hadn't put forth His Commands, I would be living a wicked lifestyle. Sure, the Laws show me sin, but also the Laws of God show how to live a lifestyle that He approves of.

There is no such theological animal as a sinner leading an acceptable lifestyle to God. God is the respecter of NO person. No flesh will be or CAN be justified in His Sight. Not by law. Not by Grace. Not for any reason.

The flesh is contrary to the Spirit no matter HOW anyone thinks they "walk" or "lifestyle." Gal. 5:17.

God is never going to justify sin indwelling the flesh or evil present with anyone, ever. It will not happen!

 

[smaller]

That new birth means the old man is dead. He died with Christ on that Cross. That old man had the sin nature, the NEW MAN had become a partaker of the DIVINE Nature. His very nature became ours through our " conception " by His Spirit. We were " conceived " by Him, same as Jesus was " conceived in Mary... When she "believed, and received" His word (seed) delivered by the angels, Jesus was conceived in her. 1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
23 having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.

Indwelling sin and evil present, which are demonic, will always try to squeeze into and past the door where they don't belong. They do so because they are exceptionally deceptive workings in the flesh.

Therefore the flesh is contrary to the Spirit. The flesh is against the Spirit.

No amount of the application of fancy theological dancing is going to be able to usher these things into Gods Grace, ever. Gal. 5:17

 

[for_his_glory]

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHIZEDEK priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

 

[for_his_glory]

I love Gods Law and Gods Word. Every single jot and tittle of same.

I do take the Law precisely for the condemnation of sin indwelling and evil present in my own flesh and I do not EVER expect it to be lawful, obedient or 'observing' the facts that the Law exposes.

I accept the GUILTY verdict to these workings in my flesh, courtesy of the LAW. I have nothing else to say but GUILTY.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This conclusion, I FULLY accept.



Jesus magnified the law to the point where the mere THOUGHT of murder is the same as MURDER IN HEART.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

External views of sin trying to dodge the fact of sin's utter condemnation, are just dodge ball being played by indwelling sin/evil present with us, which by the way are demonic deceptions. Telling us we are not sinners because we didn't murder or telling us we didn't commit adultery in heart because we didn't do the external deed.

That was never the case in the sight of God in Christ.



There is no such theological animal as a sinner leading an acceptable lifestyle to God. God is the respecter of NO person. No flesh will be or CAN be justified in His Sight. Not by law. Not by Grace. Not for any reason.

The flesh is contrary to the Spirit no matter HOW anyone thinks they "walk" or "lifestyle." Gal. 5:17.

God is never going to justify sin indwelling the flesh or evil present with anyone, ever. It will not happen!

Smaller, are we justified by the flesh for for our salvation, no, as there is no good thing in the flesh for it is enmity against the Spirit that now indwells us. Grace has set us free from the bondage of sin in the flesh as we crucify this flesh daily and no longer live in the flesh and no longer conform ourselves to this world. We set our sights on those things above as we walk that narrow path that leads us to know the mind of Christ and walk in His ways and not our own. Will we step off that narrow path at times, yes, when we allow our emotions to take a path they should not take. Does this mean we are no longer under Gods grace when we slip off that path at times, no, it just means God will convict our heart and set our feet straight again. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but we are not perfect and are perfected daily by the love of God as He sees His righteousness in us and not our own.

 

[smaller]

Smaller, are we justified by the flesh for for our salvation, no, as there is no good thing in the flesh for it is enmity against the Spirit that now indwells us.

Grace has set us free from the bondage of sin in the flesh as we crucify this flesh daily and no longer live in the flesh and no longer conform ourselves to this world.

It is not the Holy Spirit that causes "believers" to lie to themselves about their flesh.

We set our sights on those things above as we walk that narrow path that leads us to know the mind of Christ and walk in His ways and not our own. Will we step off that narrow path at times, yes, when we allow our emotions to take a path they should not take.

Whatever walk we take, the flesh remains contrary to the Spirit in any cases of sight. I do not 'excuse' the flesh under the guise of emotions either. There are scriptural specifics about the flesh that show us "why" it is contrary and vile. Previously cited, at length.

Does this mean we are no longer under Gods grace when we slip off that path at times, no,

Again, excusing. The flesh was contrary to the Spirit before, during and AFTER any slips or non-slips.

it just means God will convict our heart and set our feet straight again. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but we are not perfect and are perfected daily by the love of God as He sees His righteousness in us and not our own.

Conviction won't change the flesh to be NOT contrary to the Spirit either.

So, yes, this has been the typical exercise where it is shown that the flesh can not take scriptural fact. And it can not because it IS contrary to the Spirit. And utterly deceptive/corrupt to boot.

Simultaneously, I as a believer believe I'm saved. But that salvation will never extend to the contrary flesh for any reason.

There is the divided walk.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is not the Holy Spirit that causes "believers" to lie to themselves about their flesh.


Whatever walk we take, the flesh remains contrary to the Spirit in any cases of sight. I do not 'excuse' the flesh under the guise of emotions either. There are scriptural specifics about the flesh that show us "why" it is contrary and vile. Previously cited, at length.



Again, excusing. The flesh was contrary to the Spirit before, during and AFTER any slips or non-slips.



Conviction won't change the flesh to be NOT contrary to the Spirit either.

So, yes, this has been the typical exercise where it is shown that the flesh can not take scriptural fact. And it can not because it IS contrary to the Spirit. And utterly deceptive/corrupt to boot.

Simultaneously, I as a believer believe I'm saved. But that salvation will never extend to the contrary flesh for any reason.

There is the divided walk.

Evil is always present when we try to do good as Paul speaks of that in Romans 7:21. Satan who loves to kill, steal and destroy is also ever present tempting us as his only desire is to steal us away from God. Now, if you read vs. 22-25 this is how we overcome the ever present evil. All you talk about is how the flesh is sinful and we already know that. Why not share with others how we overcome the flesh by the renewing of our inner man, the renewing of our mind that is to know the mind of Christ, Colossians chapter 3, that is made sinless before God as it is Gods righteousness that is found in the Spiritually renewed born-again follower of Christ.

 

[smaller]

Evil is always present when we try to do good as Paul speaks of that in Romans 7:21. Satan who loves to kill, steal and destroy is also ever present tempting us as his only desire is to steal us away from God.

Brilliant deduction. At least we got the other "resisting" party on the table.

That "resistance and resisting party" is IN the flesh. That's why the flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit.

Now, if you read vs. 22-25 this is how we overcome the ever present evil. All you talk about is how the flesh is sinful and we already know that.

It is an impossibility to change the status of the flesh by any measures. When we see the resistance/resistor therein, THEN we know why.

Why not share with others how we overcome the flesh

We start by not being lying hypocrites, which actions prove we are pawns of our ADVERSARY in the flesh.

Remember the lesson. The law is for sinners. The law also moves Satan to sin/resist in the flesh. So, is the law my enemy because it does this? Never. It shows me the reality of the RESISTOR and exposes that operator.

by the renewing of our inner man, the renewing of our mind that is to know the mind of Christ, Colossians chapter 3, that is made sinless before God as it is Gods righteousness that is found in the Spiritually renewed born-again follower of Christ.

There are zero overcomers who are lying hypocrites. Zero.

WHO do we "overcome?"

Rev. 12:
11 And they overcame him -

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Is the tempter in the flesh legal? Following an acceptable to God lifestyle? Obedient to God? Under Grace? Forgiven? Faithful to Christ?

No. None of these pseudo postures can possibly apply to our adversary. And that adversary has his influences IN THE FLESH. Which is precisely why it's CONTRARY and AGAINST the Spirit.

It's hard for any believer to deal with the facts of their own contrary and against the Spirit flesh. In fact our adversary would have us look at it the opposite way at every opportunity.

 

[barelohim]

It is not the Holy Spirit that causes "believers" to lie to themselves about their flesh.


Whatever walk we take, the flesh remains contrary to the Spirit in any cases of sight. I do not 'excuse' the flesh under the guise of emotions either. There are scriptural specifics about the flesh that show us "why" it is contrary and vile. Previously cited, at length.



Again, excusing. The flesh was contrary to the Spirit before, during and AFTER any slips or non-slips.



Conviction won't change the flesh to be NOT contrary to the Spirit either.

So, yes, this has been the typical exercise where it is shown that the flesh can not take scriptural fact. And it can not because it IS contrary to the Spirit. And utterly deceptive/corrupt to boot.

Simultaneously, I as a believer believe I'm saved. But that salvation will never extend to the contrary flesh for any reason.

There is the divided walk.

Just would like to add. That the "flesh" that wars against the spirit, isn't this outward tabernacle we live in, but the renewed mind..! The flesh profits nothing. But the unrenewed mind is still at odds with the spirit. The mind is where the enemy wars against the believer. For as long as the "outer tabernacle" ( this body of clay) is still active, the way into the Holy of holies is not open... !" Hebrews 9:8 the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing;

Just to bring to mind, that we " died " with Him. So if " we " died, who are we, but that new creation, growing in the likeness of Christ. -

 

[smaller]

Just would like to add. That the "flesh" that wars against the spirit, isn't this outward tabernacle we live in, but the renewed mind..! The flesh profits nothing. But the unrenewed mind is still at odds with the spirit. The mind is where the enemy wars against the believer. For as long as the "outer tabernacle" ( this body of clay) is still active, the way into the Holy of holies is not open... !" Hebrews 9:8 the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing;

Just to bring to mind, that we " died " with Him. So if " we " died, who are we, but that new creation, growing in the likeness of Christ. -

True for what/who is in the flesh, not the flesh itself. It does require us to be CHANGED. Currently we have a seed of promise, accepted by faith, for that change. Phil. 3:21.

When any believer requests the/our/MY vile body to be perceived otherwise, I can not help but protest on the ground of the obvious. I observe WHY the body is vile from the scriptural perspective. When we perceive temptations/lusts/deceptions of the tempter THEREIN, that answer is entirely transparent.

 

[for_his_glory]

Brilliant deduction. At least we got the other "resisting" party on the table.

That "resistance and resisting party" is IN the flesh. That's why the flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit.


It is an impossibility to change the status of the flesh by any measures. When we see the resistance/resistor therein, THEN we know why.


We start by not being lying hypocrites, which actions prove we are pawns of our ADVERSARY in the flesh.

Remember the lesson. The law is for sinners. The law also moves Satan to sin/resist in the flesh. So, is the law my enemy because it does this? Never. It shows me the reality of the RESISTOR and exposes that operator.



There are zero overcomers who are lying hypocrites. Zero.

WHO do we "overcome?"

Rev. 12:
11 And they overcame him -

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Is the tempter in the flesh legal? Following an acceptable to God lifestyle? Obedient to God? Under Grace? Forgiven? Faithful to Christ?

No. None of these pseudo postures can possibly apply to our adversary. And that adversary has his influences IN THE FLESH. Which is precisely why it's CONTRARY and AGAINST the Spirit.

It's hard for any believer to deal with the facts of their own contrary and against the Spirit flesh. In fact our adversary would have us look at it the opposite way at every opportunity.

I really do not care if you call me a hypocrite as I still love you as you are my brother in Christ even though we might not agree with each other.

Was never resisting as we all know this flesh is dead to us as we now live in Christ and this flesh is dead to us.

Of course no one can change the flesh, but it is dead to those who are in Christ.

Who are you calling a hypocrite as I think we all agree there is no good thing in this flesh and once again this flesh is dead to all who are walking in the Spirit of God.

The law brought us to the knowledge of sin, Christ set us free from the bondage of the law.

We are over comers by the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus who overcame Satan for us.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

 

[smaller]

I really do not care if you call me a hypocrite

I don't call any believer a hypocrite. Believers are NOT condemned, period.

This only leaves the flesh and the tempter therein to view in matters of judgments.

Of course no one can change the flesh, but it is dead to those who are in Christ.

The 'active' conditions of the flesh do not change until the body is dead in the real sense of the term. Until then it's reckoned to be that way. That reckoning does not stop the 'ADVERSE ACTIVITY' of contrariness or being actively against the Spirit in any case.

Who are you calling a hypocrite as I think we all agree there is no good thing in this flesh and once again this flesh is dead to all who are walking in the Spirit of God.

Ah! I thought you were going to have a MOMENT there in seeing the "real" hypocrite! Oh well.

We are over comers by the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus who overcame Satan for us.

I doubt our individual wrestling match is over, til it is.

Does my sight of these matters damn any believer? Never! Not even the most blinded.

So, you think you are saved? I think everyone here who has done this, ONE TIME, is in fact saved to the uttermost regardless of any wrestling matches, any contrariness, and anything in their flesh that is against the Spirit. I know what direction to look for judgment. It's NOT to the believers.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

That happened the moment The Spirit of Christ entered our DEAD BODY.

 

[Chopper]

I love Gods Law and Gods Word. Every single jot and tittle of same.

I do take the Law precisely for the condemnation of sin indwelling and evil present in my own flesh and I do not EVER expect it to be lawful, obedient or 'observing' the facts that the Law exposes.

I accept the GUILTY verdict to these workings in my flesh, courtesy of the LAW. I have nothing else to say but GUILTY.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

This conclusion, I FULLY accept.



Jesus magnified the law to the point where the mere THOUGHT of murder is the same as MURDER IN HEART.

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

External views of sin trying to dodge the fact of sin's utter condemnation, are just dodge ball being played by indwelling sin/evil present with us, which by the way are demonic deceptions. Telling us we are not sinners because we didn't murder or telling us we didn't commit adultery in heart because we didn't do the external deed.

That was never the case in the sight of God in Christ.



There is no such theological animal as a sinner leading an acceptable lifestyle to God. God is the respecter of NO person. No flesh will be or CAN be justified in His Sight. Not by law. Not by Grace. Not for any reason.

The flesh is contrary to the Spirit no matter HOW anyone thinks they "walk" or "lifestyle." Gal. 5:17.

God is never going to justify sin indwelling the flesh or evil present with anyone, ever. It will not happen!

Ok Smaller. You seem stuck there not seeing value to the Laws of Elohim. I on the other hand see beyond the condemnation of the Law, instead I see a positive side. Getting you to acknowledge that other side is like so I'll stop trying before this goes into a debate. It's been a good exchange of idea's and I wish you the best Brother.

 

[reba]

DO NOT take this great thread to personal battles... admin
not directed at the last poster

 

[Chopper]

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHIZEDEK priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19

Very good "Glory Girl" I like your post very much. Thank you for the time it took to put it together. Wow, that some list. It'll take some time to read and meditate on your findings.

 

[smaller]

Ok Smaller. You seem stuck there not seeing value to the Laws of Elohim.

Never said that.

I on the other hand see beyond the condemnation of the Law,

It is very much a TWO EDGED SWORD.

The Spirit of the law, which we as believers ARE to fulfill ourselves is stipulated quite clearly in Romans 13:8-10.

So, how is it the majority landed on the opposite side of the fence?

instead I see a positive side. Getting you to acknowledge that other side is like so I'll stop trying before this goes into a debate. It's been a good exchange of idea's and I wish you the best Brother.

I'd like to be able to say you were truthful in your post Chopper, but you weren't.

I said earlier I accept every Word of God, jot and tittle, as FULLY applicable. But nice try.

 

[for_his_glory]

Very good "Glory Girl" I like your post very much. Thank you for the time it took to put it together. Wow, that some list. It'll take some time to read and meditate on your findings.

Thank you Chopper, But I can't take the credit for this one. I found this years ago when I was studying law vs grace. It's a good reference for me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have no intention of turning our study into a debate so I will simply say the reason smaller's doctrine does not resonate with me is because of at least two fundamental flaws I see it: 1) believers remain slaves to sin, and 2) just being tempted is the equivalent of sinning. It seems these are what gives strength to his doctrine.

See, smaller's definition of 'sinner' is 'one who commits sin'. And certainly no one can argue that we are all sinners by that definition. But Paul speaks of 'sinner' in regard to still being 'in the flesh'--meaning one who is still locked into slavery to sin because they do not have the Spirit of God. That definition of sinner hardly applies to the believer who does in fact have the Spirit, and is, therefore, no longer a slave to sin. He may act like it, but the honest truth is he is not. But I keep hearing that the 'real' truth is I am still in slavery to sin.

The deeper the power of the truth that the believer is NOT a slave to sin (because he has the Spirit) gets inside of us, through a profound and growing love for God, the less we will be enticed by the temptations and weaknesses to sin. And, wonder of wonder, not being enticed by temptations and weaknesses just so happens to uphold the law of Moses, not violate it.