What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[FreeGrace]

What has been proven to you is that eternal life is given to those who are in Christ Jesus our Lord, and have become slaves to righteousness whose fruit is unto holiness.

Just those? Please prove your claim from Scripture. Rather, what has been irrefutably been proven FROM SCRIPTURE is that those who have believed HAVE eternal life. They HAVE RECEIVED eternal life on the basis of faith in Christ.

John 5:24 - 4“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus taught 3 results of believing:
1. they HAVE eternal life
2. they WILL NOT come into judgment
3. they HAVE PASSED out of spiritual death into eternal life

But, to your opening claim, becoming slaves of righteousness is the choice that Paul describes in Rom 6:16. They are supposed to become slaves of righteousness. But...all believers also have the choice to be a slave to sin.

To apply your views, would mean that every time a person sins, which is what it means to be a slave to sin, they lose salvation. But that is impossible because Christ died for ALL SINS.

How does your views explain your pre-occupation with sin, since Christ died for ALL SINS?

Those who live their life practicing sin, will receive the wages for sin, which is death.

Then Christ died for nothing, if that is true.

The salvation of our souls is received at the end of our faith, after we have lived our life and been tested and approved... we will receive the crown of life.

This has been totally refuted by Jesus' own words in John 5:24. Those who believe HAVE eternal life. Your views are in direct opposition to the Savior's promise.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

It is clear that you've misread the passage. v.9 doesn't say "receiving the end of your life - the salvation of your souls", but the "end of your faith", which is a completely different thing.

Here's the semantic range of meaning for the Greek word "end" -
telos

1) end
1a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
1b) the end
1b1) the last in any succession or series
1b2) eternal
1c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

It should be obvious that Peter was speaking about the completion of one's faith. iow, when one gets to the actual point of saving faith, they are saved.

But, go ahead and spin it how you will.

The genuineness of our faith will be tested throughout this life, and may or may not be found to honor God.

Which has nothing to do with our security in the work of Christ.

Those who have faith for a while, then later when tested, they depart from their faith, no longer have the substance of the salvation that they previously hoped for.

When will there be any evidence of this assumption from Scripture?

The salvation of our souls is received at the end of our faith, after we have lived our life and been tested and approved... we will receive the crown of life.

Now you've created a fruit salad by mixing getting saved with getting rewarded for works. But the Bible isn't a fruit salad.

Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Why believe an assumption, since there isn't any biblical evidence for this?

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

These believed, then during a time of temptation [persecution because of the word] they no longer believed.

Believing for a while, then returning to the unbelieving state they formerly held.

What needs to be done is to PROVE that ceasing to believe RESULTS in ceasing to be saved. So far, this huge assumption has not been shown from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who believe for a while are saved for a while.
JLB

Why can't this be proven from Scripture?

If it were true, the Bible would have said so. And Luke 8:13 doesn't say so. Nor does any where else in the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace]

But according to your doctrine, when taken to it's logical conclusion, there is no such thing as corrupting the body and temple of God.

I will default to chessman's excellent response and explanation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You've already acknowledged that the verb translated destroy DOES NOT mean; 1) to send to Hell/LoF or 2) remove Eternal Life from someone or 3) to de-save someone. It means to defile/corrupt someone and/or something. In the case of 1 Cor 3:17 it means to corrupt yourself and/or others within God's Temple/church with false doctrines (You are the temple of God).

What you're not understanding is, corrupted believers who now no longer believe and follow the teaching of the Apostles--antichrists, John calls them (1 John 2:22 NASB)--do not get to keep their eternal life. It's absurd to think an antichrist--one who has rejected the Father and the Son--gets to pass through the final Judgment. Tim LeHay is going to have to rewrite all his novels.

It's simply illogical and obviously question begging and anti-Scriptural to interpret 1 Cor 3:17 as if it says:

'If anyone teaches false doctrine, God will send this person to Hell.'

Not if that false doctrine causes them to depart the faith. Then we know from scripture that they no longer have the Father and the Son, having denied them, and therefore, do not have eternal life. John plainly says this. And if you want to insist he's only talking about not having fellowship with the Father and the Son then you have no choice but to concede that antichrists are still saved, just simply out of fellowship with God.

Not to mention that, if that were the true interpretation, would mean there will be people standing before Jesus on the Day of Judgment that truly in their hearts did (AND still do) believe in the foundational Gospel are sent to Hell anyway simply because they taught a separate but false doctrine and someone else happened to believe them. Take your pick of false doctrines too;

Eternal Security vs conditional security
OSAS vs anti-OSAS
sprinkle vs dunk
Saturday vs Sunday
Tongues vs cessation of tongues
etc.

The teacher who holds any of these doctrines will be destroyed on the basis of what did or did not destroy another believer. Some doctrines taught that destroy others will result in temporal destruction, like Paul was talking about when we cause a fellow believer to stumble because of our liberties (Romans 14), while other doctrines taught that destroy others will result in eternal destruction of the one who taught them.

Telling believers they are safe to depart the faith are prime candidates for the lake of fire for leading other believers there. It doesn't matter if they also claim that Christ is the Messiah. That declaration may only be the 'light' part of the angel of light false teacher whom God will Judge for deceiving and leading astray people in the temple of God which ended up just preparing them as hay and wood and stubble for the coming Judgment of Fire. That Day is what will reveal that work: "13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire" (1 Corinthians 3:13 NASB italics in orig.).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I will default to chessman's excellent response and explanation.

Think it through.
If you think that what you teach can not destroy the temple of God, but perhaps you think what I say can destroy people in the temple of God, how can what I say somehow have a different and worse result that I will be destroyed but you will not? What is it about mine or any other doctrine that could potentially destroy the temple of God while your's does not? If you honestly answer the question you will see that either there really is no such thing as destroying the temple of God (Paul is mistaken), or telling them they can depart the faith, and they do, is an example of exactly that. Think about it.

 

[chessman]

Doctrine is only the tool you use to build the temple of God

So Paul was wrong in saying that the Gospel doctrine he first laid there (Jesus Christ and Him crucified) is the foundation of the temple??? I think not.

1 Corinthians 1:17-19 (LEB) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will confound.”
​

You might notice here that Paul doesn't say God will destroy/confound the person but rather the person's wisdom/intellegence (i.e. doctrines they think are true but aren't).

And then read this same day's event stated/described another way:

1 Corinthians 3:13 (LEB) the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is.​

Or another way:

1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy this one. For God’s temple is holy, which you are.
​

Or yet again:

1 Corinthians 4:4-5 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, but not by this am I vindicated. But the one who judges me is the Lord. Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God.
​

Allow Scripture to interpret Scripture and it all makes perfect sense.

 

[FreeGrace]

What you're not understanding is, corrupted believers who now no longer believe and follow the teaching of the Apostles--antichrists, John calls them (1 John 2:22 NASB)--do not get to keep their eternal life.

Yet, the verse says nothing about "not keeping eternal life". In fact, that's not found anywhere in Scripture.

It's absurd to think an antichrist--one who has rejected the Father and the Son--gets to pass through the final Judgment.

When God's MATCHLESS grace is fully understood, it's absurd to think that He would revoke eternal life from anyone to whom He has given it.

And, the Bible very plainly says that the gifts of God are irrevocable. Oh, and, btw, eternal life is a gift of God.

It should be obvious that if there were any gifts of God that were revocable, Paul would have made that clear when he wrote Rom 11:29.

Instead of writing, "the gifts of God...", he would have written something like:

"most of the gifts of God"
"many of the gifts of God"
"some of the gifts of God"
"a few of the gifts of God"

to indicate that not ALL of God's gifts are irrevocable. But we note that he didn't any such stuff.

So we can confidently conclude that ALL of God's gifts are irrevocable.

Especially the ones he described in Romans before he wrote 11:29.
spiritual gifts in 1:11
justification in 5:15,16,17
eternal life in 6:23

 

[FreeGrace]

Think it through.
If you think that what you teach can not destroy the temple of God, but perhaps you think what I say can destroy people in the temple of God, how can what I say somehow have a different and worse result that I will be destroyed but you will not?

Very easy answer to your question. Because your teaching tramples the Son of God underfoot.

I think we all agree that Christ died for ALL sins for ALL people. For the unbeliever, that even includes the so-called "sin of unbelief". If He died for that sin specifically, then it doesn't matter whether the person used to believe or not. It WAS covered at the cross. So that's exactly WHY your views trample the Son of God underfoot. Your view essentially claims that Christ DIDN'T die for all sins. Diametrically opposed to God's Word.

Keep in mind that those who will be cast into the lake of fire aren't cast there on account of sin. Specifically, they are cast into the lake of fire for not having eternal life. Rev 20:15

What is it about mine or any other doctrine that could potentially destroy the temple of God while your's does not?

False doctrine corrupts the one or ones who believe it. As you've already indicated.

Truth from God's Word NEVER corrupts anyone.

If you honestly answer the question you will see that either there really is no such thing as destroying the temple of God (Paul is mistaken), or telling them they can depart the faith, and they do, is an example of exactly that. Think about it.

I wish you would think about it. Your view literally trashes grace. It makes the sacrifice of Christ to no effect for rebellious believers, IN SPITE OF THE FACT that Christ died for ALL SINS.

I cannot understand why that isn't clear.

 

[chessman]

Not if that false doctrine causes them to depart the faith. Then we know from scripture that they no longer have the Father and the Son, having denied them, and therefore, do not have eternal life.

To many 'them' and 'they' to follow you.

Let's define some terms:

Person A = a saved person who believes in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Person B = another saved person who believes in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

A then tells B that you can stop believing in the Gospel and still be saved. Yet A still believes in the Gospel. Somehow (more on this later) B then stops believing in the Gospel. Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, B thusly becomes de-saved.

On your view of 1 Cor 3:15 or 17 (take your pick), is it person A or B (or both I suppose) that's sent to Hell?

Remember, A stills believes the Gospel!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So Paul was wrong in saying that the Gospel doctrine he first laid there (Jesus Christ and Him crucified) is the foundation of the temple???

No, Paul was not wrong. You are wrong in thinking the foundation is the word of God about Christ instead of Christ himself.

"...you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19-22 NASB bold mine)

Just as the building blocks built on the foundation are actual people--"living stones" Peter calls us (1 Peter 2:5 NASB)--so the foundation itself is a person, Jesus Christ himself, not a doctrine about Jesus.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

On your view of 1 Cor 3:15 or 17 (take your pick), is it person A or B (or both I suppose) that's sent to Hell?

Remember, A stills believes the Gospel!

If A lives according to his own doctrine and decides to stop believing, and as a result, goes back to the world because he erroneously thinks he's still saved if he does that, he will go to the lake of fire with B. Like all sin, it's the reason why the person is committing it that decides if that sin condemns him to the lake of fire.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yet, the verse says nothing about "not keeping eternal life". In fact, that's not found anywhere in Scripture.

Okay, so that means antichrists get to keep the eternal life they are rejecting, which is ridiculous.

The passage is indeed about eternal life because it says that whoever denies the Son does not have the Father...

"23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, the one who confesses the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:23 NASB)

And he says if you do not have the Son you do not have eternal life...

" 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5:12 NASB bold and underline mine)

But you say that the one who believed but who then denies the Son still has, both, the Father and eternal life. But that directly contradicts what John says. His words are plain and do not need interpretation.

 

[chessman]

You are wrong in thinking the foundation is the word of God about Christ instead of Christ himself

Or you are wrong by not realizing that when Paul says "Jesus Christ" that IS a doctirnal statement. Namely that the man called Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Messiah of God prophesied in the OT, and thus all the doctrine that goes along with Jesus being Messiah. "Christ" is not Jesus' last name. It's the doctirnal declaration of Jesus being the Messiah.

Paul says:

1 Corinthians 3:10 (LEB) According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, ​

If you are right, Paul somehow brought Jesus himself (the person) back and laid him (the person) in Corith. They knew better than to believe that.

If I am right, Paul proclaimed the Gospel doctrine there. Which is exactly what he said he did there.

Paul says:

1 Corinthians 1:17 (LEB) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied.
​

Laying the foundation is proclaiming the Gospel. Same thing.

 

[chessman]

If A lives according to his own doctrine and decides to stop believing, and as a result, goes back to the world because he erroneously thinks he's still saved if he does that, he will go to the lake of fire with B.

Oh, I see. On your view A's salvation is based on how he "lives according to his own doctrine ...".

I could have swarn Christianity teaches that A's salvation is based on how A trusted in how Jesus Christ lived, died and was raised. Not on how A lives his life. No wonder you think people become de-saved since you think people's salvation is based on how they live.

 

[FreeGrace]

If A lives according to his own doctrine and decides to stop believing, and as a result, goes back to the world because he erroneously thinks he's still saved if he does that, he will go to the lake of fire with B. Like all sin, it's the reason why the person is committing it that decides if that sin condemns him to the lake of fire.

So then, why did Jesus Christ die for all sin? Please answer.

 

[JLB]

Why can't this be proven from Scripture?

If it were true, the Bible would have said so. And Luke 8:13 doesn't say so. Nor does any where else in the Bible.

Luke 8:13 teaches us this truth.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Jesus gives us the condition by which a person is saved. Believe.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, no longer have met the required condition of being saved.

Those who believe are saved.
Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while.

Why would you teach people they can abandon there belief in Christ, and still be saved?
That would have to be the very text book definition of Heresy.


JLB

 

[JLB]

It's becoming crystal clear that those who believe that salvation can ultimately be lost really DO trust their salvation on their own behaviors.

But such thinking removes any reason for Christ to have died for our sins.

Utter Nonsense.

Teaching people they can abandon there belief in Christ, and still be saved is Heresy.

You would have to somehow believe that Jesus Christ does the believing for us, to come up with that idea.


Does Jesus do our believing for us?

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

...lest they should believe and be saved.

The person themselves are the ones who have to believe, in order to be saved.

That's the condition.

If there were no condition to being saved, then everyone would be saved, and the Gospel would be meaningless, and Jesus would have died for no reason.

But the truth is, whosoever believes will be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Whosoever believes in Him will be saved.

If someone believes in Him for a while, then they don't believe in Him anymore, they have returned to unbelief.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Luke 8:13 teaches us this truth.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

All Luke 8:13 says is that some will believe for a while and then, due to testing/temptations/etc, will fall away.

The phrase "will fall away" directly relates to having once believed. It has nor says nothing about loss of salvation.

The continuing assumption that loss of faith results in loss of salvation cannot proven nor shown from Scripture.

I do not base my theology on baseless assumptions.

Jesus gives us the condition by which a person is saved. Believe.

So far, so good. Correct.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

And again, there is nothing here to even suggest that salvation is based on continuing to believe.

I simply will never base theology on what is being assumed.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, no longer have met the required condition of being saved.

And no one has yet proven from Scripture that God requires continued faith for continued salvation. None whatsoever. The assumption is baseless.

Those who believe are saved.

Let's put it another way. The way Jesus actually taught it. Those who believe HAVE eternal life, from John 5:24. And those He gives eternal life (being those who have believed) WILL NEVER PERISH, from Jn 10:28.

The Bible teaches eternal security clearly.

Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while.

A baseless assumption.

Why would you teach people they can abandon there belief in Christ, and still be saved?

I don't teach that. Never have. I do believe and teach that Jesus Christ securely holds the one who has believed in His own hand. And no person (meaning even the believer him/herself cannot remove themselves from His hand). Or they would be 'greater than He is', according to Jesus.

That would have to be the very text book definition of Heresy.JLB

Heresy is false doctrine. Such as one can lose salvation by ANY means.

 

[JLB]

All Luke 8:13 says is that some will believe for a while and then, due to testing/temptations/etc, will fall away.

The phrase "will fall away" directly relates to having once believed. It has nor says nothing about loss of salvation.

The continuing assumption that loss of faith results in loss of salvation cannot proven nor shown from Scripture.

I do not base my theology on baseless assumptions.

This is all baseless assumption, on your part.

Unless you can show from the scriptures, that an unbelieving person is saved, then you have based your theology on the teaching of man.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

from John 5:24. And those He gives eternal life (being those who have believed) WILL NEVER PERISH, from Jn 10:28.

Those who no longer believe in Him... do they still have Christ?

Those who believe HAVE eternal life,

Those who no longer believe in Him, no longer have eternal life.

The unbelieving are promise the lake of fire.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:42-46

Here we have those who were believers and promoted to being a ruler over His house, then later they begin their unfaithful lifestyle and upon the Lord's return, were assigned with the unbelievers.

unbelieving...and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


JLB