smaller
Member
Don't recall saying that. Sorry. What I always observe is that mankind and (Satan/devils) co-occupy the same place, that is, in the flesh. 1 John 3:8
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After The Rapture – All The Pigs Vanish
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Don't recall saying that. Sorry. What I always observe is that mankind and (Satan/devils) co-occupy the same place, that is, in the flesh. 1 John 3:8
dirtfarmer
Member
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here
Was the serpent in Genesis Satan/devil? If so, he did not co-occupy Adam's nor Eve's flesh at first.
smaller
Member
Look at what Jesus said here: Mark 4:15.
Then recognize that is exactly what happened to Adam. Immediately after Gods Blessings were conferred on Adam THEN Mark 4:15 happened.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here
Please explain Gods blessings were conferred on Adam. I don't see where "Satan" taketh away the word from Adam.
1 Timothy 2:14 " And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
smaller
Member
Having Word stolen is a fact, as Jesus duly noted. Mark 4:15
How else do we know that Satan committed theft in Adam? Because the LAW came to Adam and Satan who had stolen from Adam's heart. That "law" was "do not eat."
The LAW is to the lawless, and to sinners, 1 Tim. 1:9. Is Satan a sinner in that theft? Assuredly so. If this "sin" did not transpire by Satan IN Adam, there was no use to give that LAW to Adam, a supposed NON-sinner. But it is not just Adam in view here. Again, 1 John 3:8 shows us Satan was a sinner from the beginning. And is so via theft of Word. Where was Word stolen from by Satan in Adam? From his heart. Exactly as Jesus stated in Mark 4:15.
If we see only Adam in the events, we are simply not listening to what Jesus said, happens.
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dirtfarmer
Member
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here
The law to the lawless and to the sinner is the law that was given to Moses. We are told that the law given to Moses was not for salvation but to reveal how exceedingly sinful sin is and our need of a savior.
"Do not eat" was not taken away from Adam by Satan. He ate of the fruit willingly. Adam loved Eve more than he did God and was willing to die with her rather than live without her. She was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh Adam named all the animals and no "helpmeet' was found for him. They had become "one flesh"
smaller
Member
The law, "do not eat" was given to Adam. IF, as most falsely think, Adam was NOT a sinner, there would have been no need for any "law" to be given to Adam.
But IF we see Satan's theft of Word from Adam's heart, as Mark 4:15 advises us of, then it was not a question of just Adam. The "sinner," Satan, entered Adam's heart and STOLE it from him, thereby sinning in Adam. Hence that law, "do not eat" OR ELSE.
That law aroused and empowered sin, which is of the devil, even moreso, which the law is meant to do. Romans 7:13, 1 Cor. 15:56.
How else beside the law, do we know Adam had "issues?" God put Adam to "sleep." Just as God did here:
Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
In the above, there is "them" AND there is the spirit of slumber put upon them. This "spirit of slumber" is also associated with the devil's power of darkness. Acts 26:18, Romans 13:12.
Now, if we follow even closer, we'll see that it was Adam's INNER MAN, Eve, who was deceived. Where did that THEFT of Satan transpire? In the INNER MAN. She was deceived. How do we know? She recounted the LAW falsely. Who deceived her? Adam was the one who received that law. Eve had not yet been taken out of Adam. So Eve HEARD that LAW from Adam and ADAM had that Word stolen from him also, in not being able to ACCOUNT that law accurately to Eve, who "added" to that law.
Genesis 3:
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Uh, no. God did NOT say that.
Did Adam have Word stolen from him? Assuredly so.
People who do not believe what Jesus said in Mark 4:15 won't get the picture, and are not meant to get the picture, because God has also put upon them a spirit of SLUMBER. Eyes that can not see. Ears that can't hear. They simply don't believe what Jesus said, is TRUE.
We also know that "lusts" come from sin being exposed to the LAW from Romans 7:7-13.
Did Eve lust after that fruit? Assuredly so. This also PROVES she was a sinner, and that sin is of the devil, who provokes and promotes "lusts." John 8:44.
John pinpoints these same events, here:
1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Eve hit on ALL THREE counts above, BEFORE she ate.
We also know that the devil is associated with LUSTS. John 8:44.
Seen enough evidence yet? There is much much more.
Likewise, the devil "comes" from where he is to where the people who heard the Gospel are, to steal what was heard.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
JLB
No where does this say the devil is in the flesh.
This says the devil sinned. What was in the devils flesh that made him sin?
1 John 3:8 plainly says: He who sins who sins is of the devil...
The person himself does the sinning.
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
JLB
smaller
Member
Evil present and indwelling sin in the flesh is in all mankind. These workings are spiritually adverse, therefore spiritual in nature.
Mankind is born, spiritually blinded. It is the condition of all natural mankind.
Gods Word was sown upon the first natural man, Adam. Satan blinded Adam via the sin of theft of Word.
This dynamic adverse interaction remains with Gods Word and Satan, with Satan automatically resisting Gods Words of LIFE, and spiritually blinding all mankind, regardless of what men do or think.
The dynamic is with Gods Word and Satan. No man changes that dynamic.
smaller
Member
Satan's theft transpires internally and is a working of spiritual adversity. It is not a forensic matter of the flesh. The flesh itself is not the problem.
Just as our flesh is not our "soul" or "spirit" if you prefer, so it is with Satan. The activity transpires in the flesh, but that is not the source of the issues, which are spiritual.
You might someday see the fallacy of your reasoning. IF the "god of this world" blinds minds it is quite futile not to incorporate WHO is doing the blinding, the sin, the THEFT of Word into these equations and just blame the captive. I would even say that is a working of the "false accuser" in those who hold that blinded sight, by them not being ABLE to see the workings of the captor and blaming the captive. This kind of sight speaks to spiritual blindness, the reality of it.
You should be able to see this fact by employing 2 Cor. 5:19. God in Christ does not count sins against mankind (universal atonement for mankind) but that does NOT mean they won't be counted against the "god of this world" who blinds people and "holds" them captive.
Does God deal adversely with sinners? Of course. But in those equations God IS adversely dealing with the "god of this world," their CAPTOR, the "evil present" with all flesh. The sin dwelling in the flesh.
Correctly bringing both parties, the captor and the captive into the equations will change how we see the scriptures.
God Is Always Right dealing adversely with the captor in mans flesh. God Is Always Right in dealing adversely with the indwelling sin and evil present with mankind, in believer or unbeliever, at any time, in any adverse way He Sees Fit. Whether their indwelling sin and evil present is openly apparent or not.
The minds of all mankind are for no uncertain fact, DEFILED by "evil thoughts." We just don't see it very well.
Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Mark 5:28 are all examples of the fact of "internal defilement" by EVIL.
And this EVIL thought is a direct cause of the internal adverse reaction of indwelling sin and evil present with Gods Words, Gods Laws. There is no escaping this conclusion. Just as there was no escape of this conclusion by Paul in Romans 7:7-13. Paul shows us there that sin mixed with law creates internal LUSTS. These "internal lusts" are defiling, as Jesus shows us in the above scriptures.
Paul concludes from this that what is really going on is a cause of "NO MORE I" in his own flesh. Romans 7:17-21. Paul sees 'warring' in his members because of this state. Paul sees his own 'wretched man' condition from this warring.
Paul sees, quite correctly, that his flesh does serve the LAW OF SIN, regardless of whether Paul liked it or not.
And these workings FORCE us into the Grace and Mercy of Jesus, to understand His Grace and Mercy, and our NEED of His Divine Grace and Mercy, always.
Works people do not understand these principles. They never have, they never will. They think that by "doing good" that evil present, that indwelling sin, that evil thoughts are not there. They are only lying to themselves, and are internally deceived by the workings of evil thoughts, falsely thinking they are not sinners. Falsely thinking they are "self justified."
The Law was very precisely meant by God for this working, that ALL MANKIND stand before God, guilty, period.
Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
There will be no bragging of innocence to God by any guilty person. It will not be accepted because it is a LIE before our Maker in the court of TRUTH.
This is why our only avenue is Gods Mercy in Christ.
IN CHRIST, by FAITH in Him, we have MERCY.
We are not left with any other direction. Any other proposals. NO other negotiation forms or legal bartering will be able to prove us not guilty. This will not happen, and can not happen.
We are FORCED only to THE MERCY SEAT, which is IN CHRIST.
smaller
Member
At least you managed to get all the parties on the table this time. Congratulations.
The first law to man, to Adam, was DO NOT EAT. Eve had not yet be separated out from Adam's internals yet. So, who told the LAW to Eve? It was and had to be Adam.
So, either Eve was deceived about that law, because she added to it, OR they both had the Words of Gods Law stolen from them by Satan, which Mark 4:15 speaks to, bringing the THIEF of Word into the equations. Eve also shows us "internal lusts" in her pre eating state, showing the facts of INTERNAL DEFILEMENTS by lusts, prior to eating.
Bottom line is this. Adam himself was, just as Paul says in 1 Cor. 15:42-49, planted in weakness, dishonor and corruption. This is the subsequent condition of All Mankind, and it was all done ON PURPOSE by God, who creates "first the natural, then the Spiritual." This is "The Order" of God.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here
God putting Adam to sleep in Genesis 2:21 is completely different from the spirit of slumber in Romans 11:8
Makes no sense.
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:27-28
This was said to them, before they fell.
JLB
Completely false.
Adam was not created in sin.
That is Gnostic teaching and is heresy.
Adam was created in the image and likeness of God.
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:27-28
Sin was not in mankind until Adam sinned, by disobeying God.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 5:12
JLB
smaller
Member
If you get around to it sometime, study how various forms of slumber also fell on those to whom God spoke in the scriptures. It is a VERY COMMON spiritual phenomena.
Genesis 2:21
And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 15:12
And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Isaiah 29:10
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Daniel 8:18
Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Romans 13:
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Rev. 1:
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
It's an interesting study, shown in various ways throughout the scriptures, and this very often accompanies Gods Speakings, for "spiritual reasons." There is a working of spiritual adversity that is put in play in all of these matters, that prompts and causes this to transpire.
It is the ADVERSARY, the spiritual blinder in man, that is PUT DOWN first, in order for these workings of God to arise, so they can be heard and seen, clearly.
"Woe is me!" is also a similar working that is shown by many of the prophets who spoke Gods Words.
I know what it says, but I also know what this says.
- This is what the Lord said to them before they sinned.
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:27-28
- This is what He said to them after they sinned.
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
Genesis 3:17-24
Do you believe Adam was driven out while Eve remained in the garden?
JLB
what does this line of yours have to do with who God told not to eat the 'apple'? a direct answer to your, from out of the blue, question is no...
Adam was the head of the house he failed Eve... He should have been her covering . Adam was a human Jesus is our head our covering..and Praise the Lord He is not just human...