Other gods

[Not_Now.Soon]

i believe there is one Most High and gods or false gods. i believe there is a difference.
i apologize for taking the little jab (interesting) at tt after he accused me of changing the scriptures and saying any opinion i had was silly. i was taught not to act like that and when people insult me i get upset and somethings get dragged down to the playground name calling level.

This one is hard to apply all the time because it requires us to ignore and look past the stings we think we've been given. But Jesus has told us to turn the other cheek when we are struck, and even to not resist an evil person, but to conquor evil by doing good. Online when all we have to share and to express ourselves is our words and our ideas, it can be hard to just let something pass. We can't show our frustration in any other way then to snap back at the other person. Often the other person is limited in what they can do to reassure us except through written text. Where as in real life there is so much more context then text.

That said there is another reason I've found to resist shooting back a clever jab. Often the other person is right in an aspect I'm unwilling to confront. If you bicker back, you will lose that connection of insight through spiteful quips.

 

[Free]

Sure you do have to go back to Genesis. The law of first mention, right. If you want to get the context of something in the NT...you go back to where it was first mentioned. So in the NT, Jesus says...as it was in the days of Noah, so to find out how it was in the days of noah, you go back to Genesis. That's what he asked about. So how was it in the days of Noah? That's what you do.

Now, I understand that you don't believe that there were giants, or fallen Angels taking human wives. That's fine if you don't believe that, to each his own, however, just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean that we throw proper study practice out the window. The law of first mention stands as an effective way to bring things into proper context, and to study the bible. Let the man with the question do his study and do it properly!

I didn't tell the man what to believe, only where to go. You should too brother.

Matthew tells us precisely what he meant by "as were the days of Noah," in the surrounding context. No need to go to Genesis 6. It is very unfortunate that many these days want to ignore context, whereas that should be the first place to look.

 

[Free]

and what brought that judgment of the flood, they were judged for eating and drinking, getting married, working in fields, i dont think so, gen 6 explains the "why". and thats why Jesus IMO mentions it.

Context, context, context. Context is king.

 

[jaybird]

Context, context, context. Context is king.

i agree.
so back to the question, what brought that judgment? did you not know?

 

[Free]

i agree.
so back to the question, what brought that judgment? did you not know?

It doesn't matter. That is not the point of the verse in question in Matthew and it has nothing to do with this topic, so I will not discuss it further.

 

[jaybird]

It doesn't matter. That is not the point of the verse in question in Matthew and it has nothing to do with this topic, so I will not discuss it further.

so Jesus makes a reference to "the days of Noah" and you think his point is about people eating, drinking and getting married because these things are unique to those days and no other? when Jesus says no one knows the day and hour but the Father, im pretty sure He covered the "unexpected" aspect right there. the disciples asked for a sign of His coming, Jesus tells them of war, false teachers, nation against nation, famines, earthquakes, things that have been on going on for the last 2000 years. the only thing different that Jesus mentions is of the days of Noah, the elephant in the room you dont see.

 

[Free]

so Jesus makes a reference to "the days of Noah" and you think his point is about people eating, drinking and getting married because these things are unique to those days and no other?

No, not even close. You really don't understand what I said about it or what Jesus is saying. Please read this post again:

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/other-gods.63167/page-6#post-1294731

Again, this is off-topic. I will say nothing more.

 

[jaybird]

No, you don't have to go back to Genesis. Let's look at the context:

Mat 24:36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. (ESV)

The context clearly shows what Matt. 24:37 is speaking of--the unexpected arrival of judgement and Jesus' return. It has absolutely nothing to do with Genesis 6

ok im reading it again. so as in the days of Noah so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. so when we see people getting married, eating, drinking, He will come?

the unexpected arrival

yep, i get that when Jesus says "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only." and " for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming" and yes i get that the people in the days of Noah were hit unexpected. when Jesus said very plainly that no one will know the hour, and He says this twice, He could have left it at that and people would have got the message that its gonna be unexpected, but that is not what He does, he mentions the days of Noah, all that just to let us know it will be unexpected? you are aware that when Jesus gives a teaching often there is a deeper symbolical meaning?
Matthew 13 10-13
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
there has always been death and destruction on this earth but there was more to it in the days of Noah and thats what brought down the judgment. Jesus and the 12 knew exactly what was going on in those days, few today get it.

 

[Free]

ok im reading it again. so as in the days of Noah so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man. so when we see people getting married, eating, drinking, He will come?

No. I've already addressed that. This really is not at all a difficult passage to understand.

 

[jaybird]

No. I've already addressed that. This really is not at all a difficult passage to understand.

whats on the surface is easy to understand, years ago i probably would not have picked up on it either. lets move on.
back to the psalms passage,
why would humans be in a "divine" assembly?
why would they be judged to die like men when they are already men? thats not much of a judgment.

 

[jaybird]

another passage i think is interesting
Matthew 24 26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
in 1999 the tomb of Osiris was found, in a secret chamber
in 2003 the tomb of Gilgamesh was found in the desert.
probably just a coincidence and nothing to think much about.

 

[Edward]

not going there Edward

 

[Edward]

edited reba

 

[Free]

reply to a deleted post

 

[smaller]

Boy, this topic kinda went rogue.

YES, there are other gods.

Here is a picture of one from Paul:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I would also consider a 'being' that has the power of death to be a god, little g. It is the same little g god as in the above reference:

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Paul also notes various powers/entities/authorities here that are not man:

Eph. 6:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And again, here:

Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

which same Jesus references here:

Mark 13:25
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

So, in short, and yes, there is much more, there are "other principalities with powers" that we can easily consider are "gods" in the lesser sense to big G God, and these also could be considered in some cases to be adverse to God.

And yes, they are real. The poster (Jaybird) who made the observation that if there are no other gods, then the commandment not to have any other gods is pointless, is RIGHT.

There are "other gods."

 

[smaller]

I would say Satan and his demons can pose as a god but it is all deception from the father of all lies. These gods have no real power other than the perceptions of the carnal mind.

Well of course unseen entities fall into the category of little g gods. And yes, they are real and do exist, contrary to the claims that many are (surprisingly) trying to make here.

Here is a demonstration of the "power" of one of these gods:

Matt. 4:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Any being who could do the above, notwithstanding the "truth" of any of it, could certainly be considered a real entity and thus, a little g, god, which IS how Paul describes this adverse (to God and man) spiritual entity in citings such as Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2.

We also know from scriptures that there are anti-Christ spirits. IF Christ is a Spirit or The Spirit OF GOD, which IS the case, and there are such spirits in the ANTI-Christ sense, then we might even consider the "god status" of such beings, and even observe they are ANTI-God gods.

 

[Free]

Boy, this topic kinda went rogue.

YES, there are other gods.

Here is a picture of one from Paul:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I would also consider a 'being' that has the power of death to be a god, little g. It is the same little g god as in the above reference:

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Paul also notes various powers/entities/authorities here that are not man:

Eph. 6:
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And again, here:

Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

which same Jesus references here:

Mark 13:25
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

So, in short, and yes, there is much more, there are "other principalities with powers" that we can easily consider are "gods" in the lesser sense to big G God, and these also could be considered in some cases to be adverse to God.

And yes, they are real. The poster (Jaybird) who made the observation that if there are no other gods, then the commandment not to have any other gods is pointless, is RIGHT.

There are "other gods."

Are these "other gods" actual living beings with their own inherent power?

 

[smaller]

Are these "other gods" actual beings with their own inherent power?

The point IS Free, that scripture does reference other gods as well as their powers.

This notion you and others here are promoting, that only man creates imaginary gods, is NOT true, nor is it scripturally accurate.

Paul described a REAL "god" in 2 Cor. 4:4 with REAL powers, just as he notes here also, for example:

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

I would certainly consider an "unseen entity" with the power to beguile and blind minds to be "a god" with real, albeit, adverse to God, powers.

This is not just the imaginary stuff of man.

 

[Free]

The point IS Free, that scripture does reference other gods as well as their powers.

This notion you and others here are promoting, that only man creates imaginary gods, is NOT true, nor is it scripturally accurate.

Paul described a REAL "god" in 2 Cor. 4:4 with REAL powers, just as he notes here also, for example:

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

I would certainly consider an "unseen entity" with the power to beguile and blind minds to be "a god" with real, albeit, adverse to God, powers.

This is not just the imaginary stuff of man.

So, with the several passages I have given where God himself says that he knows of no other god, that there is no other god, we have four choices, according to you and jaybird:

1. God lied.
2. God was ignorant.
3. The writers of those passages lied.
4. The writers of those passages misunderstood.

Which is it?

 

[smaller]

So, with the several passages I have given where God himself says that he knows of no other god,

There are no other "G"ods.

that there is no other god, we have four choices, according to you and jaybird:

Your list is not going to be coherent. But here we go:

1. God lied.

Howso? Is the alternative that Paul lied?

2. God was ignorant.

The fact remains that "other gods," very real with real powers are shown in the scriptures. There is no getting around this fact on the ground of "man's imaginations."

3. The writers of those passages lied.

Look, some scriptures are and can only be TRUE in the "U"ltimate Eternal Sense, such as Gods Statement of Fact here:

Isaiah 45:6
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

IF we were to read the bold above, on the face of it, it would appear that GOD IS ALL THERE IS. And, in the ultimate and eternal senses, that is TRUE.

1 Tim. 6:
15 which God will bring about in his own time God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

4. The writers of those passages misunderstood.

Which is it?

It's called an excluded middle construct logical fallacy from your end.