The English Language and the Bible

[GodsGrace]

My understanding is that Greek was the most expressive language of the day. Perhaps it still is. I like going to the greek because it has more definitions for words in general, so it's easy to apply different definitions to the passage to see different perspectives. The translators did as good as they could, but many times applying a different def, will totally change the verses meaning and shine more light on the text in general.

Beyond, I dunno.

Hi Edward,
I agree.
But we're not supposed to change the verses!
We could change a word here or there because it is understood differently today than when it was written.

Jesus in the desert...
satan: IF you are the Son of God

maybe should have been. SINCE you are the Son of God.

It would be better understood TODAY.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering.,

I'm disappointed you have such disdain for an important Greek tense. To properly exegete the NT, a functional knowledge of the differences in meaning of present, aorist, perfect and imperfect tenses is needed.

That may not be important to you but it is to me as a preacher and Bible teacher.

You seem to have an incorrect understanding of the aorist tense. It's not that difficult to understand. I don't know who has made it diffficult for you.

Oz

Disdain is a strong word...
I disappoint you easily.
You must like me!

 

[GodsGrace]

This is an interesting thought.
I own two Bibles; one in English and the other in German. I think it is worth noting that if I translate the German version precisely into English, the translations are slightly different.
Modern Bibles are translated from the interpretation of the original texts, however some Bibles have the text modified to make them somewhat easier to read.

P.S.
English bibles use different words!
As do German bibles...

 

[OzSpen]

I know a theologian priest that knows Koine Greek and taught it for many years. He uses an original Greek bible.

I spoke to him about the aorist tense one time in the way that persons here use it.
They use it to prove eternal salvation by saying that it's an act in the PAST that CONTINUES onto the FUTURE.

This is ONE way of understanding the aorist tense. He told me it also has other concepts depending on HOW it's used. It sounded very complicated to me. It does not have only that one meaning. He suggested that I don't bother myself with it - and I agree!

He said I shouldn't be concerned with it because the N.T. does NOT teach eternal salvation and persons that want to believe that have to upset all of the N.T. to come to that conclusion. He said there are other proofs without concerning ourselves with the aorist tense.

I don't believe anything is unimportant.
What I'm saying is that NO ONE ON THIS FORUM, of us normal folk, know ENOUGH of the aorist tense to be speaking about it.

We can discuss eternal security without discussing verbs and meanings and §Greek words. The translators were faithful to the MEANING of each sentence.

I speak 3 languages. I know about meanings. There are words that cannot be translated into English, for example; however, I can express that thought using more than one word. It's not impossible to convey the message even though I have to use more than one word.

This is all I'm saying.

Wondering

You say you can discuss eternal security without discussing verbs, meanigs and Greek verbs. That's like ssying I can discuss cyclone Debbie that has hit the Qld coast and the torrential rain I'm experiencing in its aftermath, without understanding the meaning of,

• Cyclone
• The tense of the verb has hit,
• Qld coast
• Torrential
• Aftermath
• Tense of verb in I'm experiencing.

I consider you are downplaying the importance of meaning of words, tenses and other grammatical functions in languages.

You should know that since you speak 3 languages. I could not imagine you would get away with being slack on grammatical constructs when speaking those languages.

My German teacher in school many years ago was strict with learning vocab and grammar in writing and speaking. Sprecht du auf Deutsch?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Disdain is a strong word...
I disappoint you easily.
You must like me!

Wondering,

I did find you came across that strongly. You didn't show an appreciation of the Greek aorist trnse.

We can't reach an understanding of eternal security without knowing the meaning of the words used, verb tenses and other grammatical constructions whether in Greek or English.

I do appreciate your posts.

Blessings,
Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering

You say you can discuss eternal security without discussing verbs, meanigs and Greek verbs. That's like ssying I can discuss cyclone Debbie that has hit the Qld coast and the torrential rain I'm experiencing in its aftermath, without understanding the meaning of,

• Cyclone
• The tense of the verb has hit,
• Qld coast
• Torrential
• Aftermath
• Tense of verb in I'm experiencing.

I consider you are downplaying the importance of meaning of words, tenses and other grammatical functions in languages.

You should know that since you speak 3 languages. I could not imagine you would get away with being slack on grammatical constructs when speaking those languages.

My German teacher in school many years ago was strict with learning vocab and grammar in writing and speaking. Sprecht du auf Deutsch?

Oz

Grammatical constructs.
You want I should speak correct English?

I worked as an executive secretary. Do you know what that means? I know an office like you know theology.

No correct grammar = no executive secy.

So I know what you're speaking about.

BUT

I still maintain that IT IS NOT NECESSARY to know Greek to know that salvation is not eternal unless WE WISH it to be.

OSAS does NOT exist in the N.T.

That's what I'm saying...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm disappointed you have such disdain for an important Greek tense. To properly exegete the NT, a functional knowledge of the differences in meaning of present, aorist, perfect and imperfect tenses is needed.

That may not be important to you but it is to me as a preacher and Bible teacher.

Yes, that's your job.
And thank God for you!

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering,

I did find you came across that strongly. You didn't show an appreciation of the Greek aorist trnse.

We can't reach an understanding of eternal security without knowing the meaning of the words used, verb tenses and other grammatical constructions whether in Greek or English.

I do appreciate your posts.

Blessings,
Oz

Oz,
I came across that strongly...
Yes, I will scream...
Why?

Because the bible was translated so that we ALL may understand it.
It is NOT necessary to know Greek to understand what God wants to tell us.

Greek is necessary for persons such as yourself. It's necessary to understand everything more deeply and clearly. But please don't tell me I must know Koine Greek to understand if I can sin or not (just read part of your sin article), if salvation is eternal or not, if God loves me or not.

Hope you understand!

P.S. Many use the aorist tense to prove salvation cannot be lost and I really am tired of this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, that's your job.
And thank God for you!

Men!
They know how to say so much with very few words!!

Thanks Jethro. I trust OzSpen knows I agree with you.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,
I came across that strongly...
Yes, I will scream...
Why?

Because the bible was translated so that we ALL may understand it.
It is NOT necessary to know Greek to understand what God wants to tell us.

Greek is necessary for persons such as yourself. It's necessary to understand everything more deeply and clearly. But please don't tell me I must know Koine Greek to understand if I can sin or not (just read part of your sin article), if salvation is eternal or not, if God loves me or not.

Hope you understand!

P.S. Many use the aorist tense to prove salvation cannot be lost and I really am tired of this.

Wondering.

I understand.

Koine Greek is an aorist-loving language.

While some may use aorist to support OSAS, a sound Bible teacher knows we examine the whole counsel of God to reach conclusions.

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering.

I understand.

Koine Greek is an aorist-loving language.

While some may use aorist to support OSAS, a sound Bible teacher knows we examine the whole counsel of God to reach conclusions.

Oz

AMEN!

 

[Jim Parker]

While some may use aorist to support OSAS, a sound Bible teacher knows we examine the whole counsel of God to reach conclusions.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sprecht du auf Deutsch?

No thank you......I had one at breakfast this morning.

 

[GodsGrace]

No thank you......I had one at breakfast this morning.

You're such an American!
Why do you American types hate learning foreign languages?

 

[reba]

I kinda think God knew there would be many different languages when He gave us His Word... I believe His Word is in good hands..His own

 

[jasonc]

Geneses was not written in Greek

Originally, no.

But the lxx was in use by the time of Jesus

 

[jasonc]

You're such an American!
Why do you American types hate learning foreign languages?

I'm game for learning Spanish, but well unless I must live by it ,it's just an intellectual pursuit.kinda hard to converse and not immerse in the culture.

 

[Papa Zoom]

First: I believe in the eternal security of believers in Jesus. I believe this is taught in Scripture.

Seconed: I will now become a fan of Greek and an aorist-loving believer.

Third: I like Oz's style and posts.

Last: Wondering makes me think a lot about stuff and I love that about her posts.

hehehe (I just wanted to post that)

 

[OzSpen]

No thank you......I had one at breakfast this morning.

Jethro,

Learning a foreign is tough but rewarding work. I have a Christian friend in my cell group from Laos. He and his wife live here in Brisbane. She finds English a tough language and struggles to communicate. It's hard going but she will be blessed eventually.

Oz

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're such an American!
Why do you American types hate learning foreign languages?

Because they're foreign to us. That's why.