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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Growth What must we do to do the works God requires of us?
- Thread starter Papa Zoom
- Start date
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Well done. Exactly what I was aiming at.
Hi Papa Zoom,
Is that all??
I don't think so.
However, I am not under the Law but under Grace.
So what's the difference between what YOU believe and what I believe?
First of all, could we describe what "works" are?
There are works of the Law
And there are works.
§Works of the Law are works that I do believing they will save me or keep me saved.
The Israelites were under the Law when the were roaming around in the Sinai desert.
They promised God they would obey all the Commandments He gave them, but they were unable to do so.
Why?
They were trying to do the works of the Law by themselves. They were trying to keep the 10 Commandments with their own strength.
I didn't function well at all. They had no love in their heart.
Ezekiel and Jeremiah said the Law had to be written in our hearts. Ezekiel said God would take a heart of stone and turn it into flesh.
Jeremiah said the Law would be written on our hearts, and not on a cold slab of stone.
So, that explains Works of the Law. When one does these, even born again believers, they tire and cannot do what they feel God is telling them to do. Maybe they volunteer too much, maybe they go to church too much, maybe they sacrifice too much for some reason or other.
Jesus said, Come to Me all ye who labor and I will give you rest. If you're not rested, it's not God telling you to do what you do.
(now we all get tired and complain every now and then. It's human and normal. This should not be the norm however).
Now we get to Works.
Are we supposed to do works?
YES!
Jesus left us a lot of instructions, most of which are covered by the two Great Commandments: Love God, Love your Neighbor as Yourself. That pretty much covers everything.
Just read Mathew. The last chapters of Romans. Jesus and Paul and Peter and all the writers DID agree that works are necessary.
But what are these works?
These, unlike trying to keep the works of the Law, are works that we are required to do to promote the Kingdom of God and to be a part of the Kingdom of God. God is not going to come down here and do everything for us --- we, being born again members of His Kingdom, must do His works for Him.
You know, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, be humble, etc.
Mathew Chapters 5 to 7, chapter 25, etc.
Romans 13 to 16
! Corinthians 5:9-13
Galatians 5:19-21
These are works we do under Grace and that we SHOULD WANT to do.
However, we are REQUIRED to do them, this was not a request Jesus made but a demand.
Jesus did not request.
Your turn?
], what is good;.
Law keeping seems to remain law keeping when we enter the equation. Believing on Jesus corrected that.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (NOT BY US, BUT BY GOD WHO SENT HIS SON), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Is there even one commission other than believing on Jesus that keeps us saved? Is it that I don’t feed the poor? The world is full of hungry opportunities! Have you got that covered?
Can we just go out and break even one of the Ministration of Death’s rules (2 Cor 3:7) and not suffer consequence? What are we saved from?
And lastly, what is the promise of performing righteous works? Is it just keeping saved from the lake of fire? There is scripture for those interested I won’t post here at this time due to the possibility of offending some self righteous brethren in Christ. Think there isn’t, just listen to how they keep themselves saved by how good they are. I suspect that they never even break a speed limit. (Rom 13:1-2)
And Brother Papa Zoom, if this post strayed from your intent of the OP, please just delete it.
I really don’t expect more than excuses concerning works anyhow. There used to be what is known as sins of commission, and sins of omission, and that made all guilty to some degree.
Thanks.
Law keeping seems to remain law keeping when we enter the equation. Believing on Jesus corrected that.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (NOT BY US, BUT BY GOD WHO SENT HIS SON), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Is there even one commission other than believing on Jesus that keeps us saved? Is it that I don’t feed the poor? The world is full of hungry opportunities! Have you got that covered?
Can we just go out and break even one of the Ministration of Death’s rules (2 Cor 3:7) and not suffer consequence? What are we saved from?
And lastly, what is the promise of performing righteous works? Is it just keeping saved from the lake of fire? There is scripture for those interested I won’t post here at this time due to the possibility of offending some self righteous brethren in Christ. Think there isn’t, just listen to how they keep themselves saved by how good they are. I suspect that they never even break a speed limit. (Rom 13:1-2)
And Brother Papa Zoom, if this post strayed from your intent of the OP, please just delete it.
I really don’t expect more than excuses concerning works anyhow. There used to be what is known as sins of commission, and sins of omission, and that made all guilty to some degree.
Thanks.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Hi Papa Zoom,
Is that all??
I don't think so.
However, I am not under the Law but under Grace.
So what's the difference between what YOU believe and what I believe?
First of all, could we describe what "works" are?
There are works of the Law
And there are works.
§Works of the Law are works that I do believing they will save me or keep me saved.
The Israelites were under the Law when the were roaming around in the Sinai desert.
They promised God they would obey all the Commandments He gave them, but they were unable to do so.
Why?
They were trying to do the works of the Law by themselves. They were trying to keep the 10 Commandments with their own strength.
I didn't function well at all. They had no love in their heart.
Ezekiel and Jeremiah said the Law had to be written in our hearts. Ezekiel said God would take a heart of stone and turn it into flesh.
Jeremiah said the Law would be written on our hearts, and not on a cold slab of stone.
So, that explains Works of the Law. When one does these, even born again believers, they tire and cannot do what they feel God is telling them to do. Maybe they volunteer too much, maybe they go to church too much, maybe they sacrifice too much for some reason or other.
Jesus said, Come to Me all ye who labor and I will give you rest. If you're not rested, it's not God telling you to do what you do.
(now we all get tired and complain every now and then. It's human and normal. This should not be the norm however).
Now we get to Works.
Are we supposed to do works?
YES!
Jesus left us a lot of instructions, most of which are covered by the two Great Commandments: Love God, Love your Neighbor as Yourself. That pretty much covers everything.
Just read Mathew. The last chapters of Romans. Jesus and Paul and Peter and all the writers DID agree that works are necessary.
But what are these works?
These, unlike trying to keep the works of the Law, are works that we are required to do to promote the Kingdom of God and to be a part of the Kingdom of God. God is not going to come down here and do everything for us --- we, being born again members of His Kingdom, must do His works for Him.
You know, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, be humble, etc.
Mathew Chapters 5 to 7, chapter 25, etc.
Romans 13 to 16
! Corinthians 5:9-13
Galatians 5:19-21
These are works we do under Grace and that we SHOULD WANT to do.
However, we are REQUIRED to do them, this was not a request Jesus made but a demand.
Jesus did not request.
Your turn?
Jesus tells us in John 6:29 that the works of God is to believe in the One that He sent. That is Jesus.
But you're right, I do want to go farther. And the next thing to consider is the foundation of all "works." That's found in I Corinthians 13. - LOVE- Love never fails. When we start from there, having the heart of Christ operating in our lives (for apart from the Spirit we can't do it) then proper works naturally follow.
I'm off to work soon so I will put some more thought into this and post another response with more meat. I'll simply end with this, unless our works come from the springboard of Love, it means nothing. It's empty and meaningless.
"....and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing......"
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
.
Law keeping seems to remain law keeping when we enter the equation. Believing on Jesus corrected that.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (NOT BY US, BUT BY GOD WHO SENT HIS SON), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Is there even one commission other than believing on Jesus that keeps us saved? Is it that I don’t feed the poor? The world is full of hungry opportunities! Have you got that covered?
Can we just go out and break even one of the Ministration of Death’s rules (2 Cor 3:7) and not suffer consequence? What are we saved from?
And lastly, what is the promise of performing righteous works? Is it just keeping saved from the lake of fire? There is scripture for those interested I won’t post here at this time due to the possibility of offending some self righteous brethren in Christ. Think there isn’t, just listen to how they keep themselves saved by how good they are. I suspect that they never even break a speed limit. (Rom 13:1-2)
And Brother Papa Zoom, if this post strayed from your intent of the OP, please just delete it.
I really don’t expect more than excuses concerning works anyhow. There used to be what is known as sins of commission, and sins of omission, and that made all guilty to some degree.
Thanks.
That was just fine. My purpose is to talk about works and what that looks like in our daily lives. How does it manifest itself in the way God intended for us to understand it.
I grew up in a legalistic church and I think they got it totally wrong. For me, I came away from the experience with a list of do's and don'ts. And of course it's not about that at all. But it is about something in particular and I hope to explore what that means for us Believers in Jesus in our daily lives. I think it starts from a heart of Love. Love from the Spirit of God that enables us to live lives worthy of the Call.
I'm off to work and love on my kids. This is a work and God has blessed me greatly. I love them by being kind and caring and serving them. That is the next step after Love. There is no greater act than to serve others. Little cups of cold water to a thirsty world. Kindness, taking time to see the person before you and consider their needs above your own. This is what I mean. As Jesus did all his life. He was a servant to all. Humble. Caring. Sometimes I fail when my flesh gets the best of me. But by God's Grace, I press forward. There's no greater joy in life than serving others. Small things, big things. I'll share more later. I've 6 days left of working before I fully retire. It is sweet. I can't keep up like I used to. And the person taking over my job is a former kindergarten student. That is a HUGE thing to me. I love the guy and he's going to do great things.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
If we believe but don't act on that belief, then do we really believe? Jesus said to at least one rich man who asked what he must do, that he should give up all his wealth and give it to the poor, then come and follow Jesus.
There are many teaching in Jesus's lessons that I know I don't apply in my own life, and I assume this is true for most Christians if not all Christians. That characteristic is a scary thing to consider, when combined with Jesus's critism of a crowd following Him. "Why do you call me Lord if you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46) (I think it's in John too, but can't find it now.)
The question I could ask is not how important are our works, but does any of us really believe?
There are many teaching in Jesus's lessons that I know I don't apply in my own life, and I assume this is true for most Christians if not all Christians. That characteristic is a scary thing to consider, when combined with Jesus's critism of a crowd following Him. "Why do you call me Lord if you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46) (I think it's in John too, but can't find it now.)
The question I could ask is not how important are our works, but does any of us really believe?
John 13:13 ??
Not_Now.Soon
Member
It might not be John, or I'm remembering the verse wrong. I thought it was in John because that's the book I'm reading and the verse was still fresh in my mind, as if I read it recently. If I'm remembering it correctly Jesus said this not only in a sermon like Juke 6, but also to a croud of people as they were following him. I want to say while He was traveling.
But again since I can't find it I might not be remembering it correctly. Sorry
Try
John 3:36
John 8:31
John 14:15
John 14:21, 24
John 15:14
(not that it matters...)
P.S. Mathew 7:21
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
lol there's a lot of truth in that clip.
Jim Parker
Member
I have replied as a conversation rather than as a public statement.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Papa Zoom, dirtfarmer here
There is a second verse that I would add to John 6:29; It is Ephesians 2:10.
Ephesians 2:10," For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
I find in this verse the completion of " believe on him whom he hath sent". Ephesians 2:10 doesn't say that we should "do" good works but that we should "walk" in those good works that are created in Christ Jesus. Paul said in Romans 7:18 states that in his flesh "dwelleth no good thing", but in 7:22 he states, " For I delight in the law of God after the inward man;
Jim Parker
Member
From a Biblical perspective, what does "believe" mean?
What we have to do is surrender our will to Gods will and follow the guidance, wisdom and understanding the Holy Spirit gives us in all aspects of our walk with Him.
Will is to submit or surrender to something we might not understand at the moment, but is revealed to us in time like that of submitting ourselves to the will of God and not our own. When we were a child we learned to walk by our parents holding our hand and guiding our steps so we would not fall. We kept trying to walk in spite of falling from time to time until we were walking on our own. This same submission is like our relationship with Christ that even when we stumble and fall he is always there to pick us up and start all over again. Luke 14:26, 33; Mark 14:36
There was a time in my life that I wanted to be a Pastor and even looked into schooling for this. I knew I wanted to be a servant of God and have my own Church, but in all reality it was something that I wanted, but not what God wanted for me. If I had pursued this adventure, looking back on it now, I do not feel that there would have been very much success out of this as I was stepping out of Gods will for what he did have for me in his timing. Like Jesus in Mark 14:36 who did not want to have to go through what he did for his love for us, even he had to be in Gods perfect will in order to be used effectively by God for his purpose for all mankind.
Matthew 16:24, 25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me let him deny himself and Take up his cross and follow me. Vs. 25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Gods’ ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. The carnal mind can not imagine that of the Spirit of God. God has instructed us to walk worthy of his word so we can bring honor and glory to his name.
The works of the Lord are not just teaching his word behind a pulpit, Matthew 25:35-40, the works of the Lord also include feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and not turning our backs on those that are in prison. The works of the Lord is the witness of God shared with people that do not know him and this is what it is to surrender to the will of God.
Will is to submit or surrender to something we might not understand at the moment, but is revealed to us in time like that of submitting ourselves to the will of God and not our own. When we were a child we learned to walk by our parents holding our hand and guiding our steps so we would not fall. We kept trying to walk in spite of falling from time to time until we were walking on our own. This same submission is like our relationship with Christ that even when we stumble and fall he is always there to pick us up and start all over again. Luke 14:26, 33; Mark 14:36
There was a time in my life that I wanted to be a Pastor and even looked into schooling for this. I knew I wanted to be a servant of God and have my own Church, but in all reality it was something that I wanted, but not what God wanted for me. If I had pursued this adventure, looking back on it now, I do not feel that there would have been very much success out of this as I was stepping out of Gods will for what he did have for me in his timing. Like Jesus in Mark 14:36 who did not want to have to go through what he did for his love for us, even he had to be in Gods perfect will in order to be used effectively by God for his purpose for all mankind.
Matthew 16:24, 25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me let him deny himself and Take up his cross and follow me. Vs. 25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Gods’ ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. The carnal mind can not imagine that of the Spirit of God. God has instructed us to walk worthy of his word so we can bring honor and glory to his name.
The works of the Lord are not just teaching his word behind a pulpit, Matthew 25:35-40, the works of the Lord also include feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and not turning our backs on those that are in prison. The works of the Lord is the witness of God shared with people that do not know him and this is what it is to surrender to the will of God.
Jim Parker
Member
Well saidHi John Christian. I just emboldened some of your quote to emphasize my question.
What in your opinion is required, for what purpose, and the consequence if not adhered to?
May I also ask what Christian assembly's teachings you subscribe to? Thanks.
Believe and obey.
Disobedience is sin, sin leads to death....according to James.
If we love the Father, we will obey Him....according to Jesus.