Jim Parker
Member
So either I'm a liar or you are.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Essential vs Nonessential
- Thread starter netchaplain
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In a way, you did, here.
I said:
"Could you point out where it is clear that one's works are required for salvation?"
No, you haven't.
Recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
Notice what Jesus did not say:
"I give them eternal life, and they might not perish."
Or,
"I give them eternal life, and IF, or AS LONG AS...(fill in the blank with any condition that comes to mind), they shall never perish."
He meant what He said. And said what He meant.
Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER perish.
"Could you point out where it is clear that one's works are required for salvation?"
No, you haven't.
I'm not. I've shown exactly where Jesus taught eternal security. John 10:28
Recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
Notice what Jesus did not say:
"I give them eternal life, and they might not perish."
Or,
"I give them eternal life, and IF, or AS LONG AS...(fill in the blank with any condition that comes to mind), they shall never perish."
He meant what He said. And said what He meant.
Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER perish.
Gregg T
Member
Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
It is true that one who believes has everlasting life.
The moment one believes is point 'a'.
It is true that person 'A' believes at point 'a'.
Therefore, it is true that person 'A' has everlasting life at point 'a'.
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The same arguement can be made for knowing The Father and the Son, being generated from above, and having the Son.
Joh 17:3 And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
1Jn 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been generated from God. And everyone who loves Him who begets also loves the one who has been born of Him.
1Jn 5:12 The one having the Son has life. The one not having the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life everlasting.
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Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
All of the above leads to a conclusion that the Holy Spirit has taken up residence at point 'a'.
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And I refer you to this from a previous post:
Given that the accomplished work of God in Christ provides the means for salvation, one must believe God in order to be saved by Him.
1. When someone believes, these things occur simultaneously:
- the Spirit of the Lord takes residence, sealing him
- his heart is circumcised,
- he is placed / set into Christ
- he is raised a new creature having eternal life
- the Atonement or Propitiation of Christ is applied
- forgiveness and remission of sins are granted
- justification is realized by God accounting His righteousness to
- reconciliation
- sanctification by Christ's blood (not the subsequent process of)
- adoption by the Father
- Christ being our peace with the Father
- a standing in grace
- transfered out of the domain of darkness and into the kingdom of His son
- is delivered, saved, born from above, born again
- made alive together with Christ
- baptized into Christ
- entering through the narrow door / gate
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I said this:
"Second, who preaches that once saved by grace through faith, one can "continue living as they have"??"
Here's the truth; recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Know why? Because Jesus said so.
That IS eternal security.
The phrase "in a way" is one's opinion of something, not what was actually said.
It's puzzling that eternal security is seen in such a poor light by some.
Can a recipient of eternal life ever perish? Jesus answered that question with a very strong SHALL NEVER.
If any recipient of eternal life ever did perish, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 cannot be true.
Who can live with that idea?
"Second, who preaches that once saved by grace through faith, one can "continue living as they have"??"
What does "in a way" mean? I certainly NEVER said such a thing.
Here's the truth; recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Know why? Because Jesus said so.
That IS eternal security.
The phrase "in a way" is one's opinion of something, not what was actually said.
It's puzzling that eternal security is seen in such a poor light by some.
Can a recipient of eternal life ever perish? Jesus answered that question with a very strong SHALL NEVER.
If any recipient of eternal life ever did perish, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 cannot be true.
Who can live with that idea?
Gregg T
Member
No that is not what I am saying.
billybalke
Member
Neither Jn.5:24 nor any other passage in the NT says "in the moment one believes. Solve this first before we get into the rest of your post.
Gregg T
Member
A dialogue between two reasonable people does not work that way.
I offered a proof as to why Jn 5:24 necessiates that upon believing one has eternal life, or in other words, the moment one believes he has eternal life.
If you can demonstrate that my proof / argument is false, I will humbly concede, and then we can consider other matters.
But for now your position is unsubstantiated opinion.
Jim Parker
Member
Fooled me.
billybalke
Member
I have read your entire post a 2nd time and my position remains substantiated. You cannot produce a single scripture which teaches "the moment one believes he has eternal life" much less one passage which says that. Your logic throughout your post does not substantiate it. Again handle this and then we can proceed.
God bless
Jim Parker
Member
That's true.
And it is also true that one can loose that eternal life or toss it away.
Heb 3:5-6 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
If means that the state of being (having eternal life) is conditional.
1Ti 4:1a Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith,
In order to depart from the faith, one had to be IN the faith. Those are people who believed and had eternal life and then abandoned both their faith and the eternal life.
1Ti 6:20-21a O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.
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The strict/unambiguous common Greek of The Lord Jesus Christ's day proves that the moment one believes, that person is saved and HAS eternal life.
The Aorist tense of believe in Acts 16:31 proves this......................But it will be rejected.
And if we are not saved the moment we believe..............How can we put on the Helmet of salvation? A VITAL part of our armor........It protects the HEAD.
Sad, people won't and can't put on this vital piece of HIS armor.
Eph 6:17~~New American Standard Bible
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
If our posts are read, Gregg, FreeGrace nor I are arguing from this perspective(calvinism.) We are arguing from the Christian/Biblical perspective.
Many believers are in or will be in apostasy. Doesn't mean they were not saved in the first place.
Many here have departed from THE faith and think their own good saves or maintains their salvation. They have departed from THE faith.....doesn't mean they have lost salvation.
Seems that many can. But a little nugget .........nobody want's to answer you straight up with......"Yes, Yes they can perish." They "bounce" around it. SO(for some), in bed at night, all alone, thinking...........they know. We just may never hear it.
billybalke
Member
Perhaps you can show us one single scripture which says or even hints one is saved "the moment he believes". Acts 16:30,31 does not say such.
Jim Parker
Member
AH SO des ka!
I good with that.
Yeah it does.
Unless a person can be of the opinion that Jesus is not the son of God; that He did not die to save mankind; that He did not rise from the dead; and that no one needs to do what He says and still be saved.
John 6:47 (NASB95)
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 3:36 (NASB95)
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
2 Cor 6:2~New International Version
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31.
Jim Parker
Member
It proves that one must ignore the rest of scripture to hold to the OSAS nonsense.
Gregg T
Member
I do not wish to proceed, but thanks.
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billybalke
Member
All of the above and yet not ONE of those passages says or hints one has eternal life "the moment one believes". Keep looking please.