How to be saved.....

[JLB]

Since you changed who Jesus was talking about ("my sheep") in your commentary and question to be unspecified, I was not sure who's sheep you meant in the above question.

I mean, after all, Jesus specifically says His sheep follow Him. But then you ask a question about sheep that do not follow Him. I thought it reasonable that you must be asking this question about "a sheep" because Jesus Himself just got through saying His sheep follow Him. But then you ask about sheep that do not follow Him.

I guesd we need to clarify things:

Do you believe that Jesus' sheep follow Him, yes or no?

Here is my question again

Can sheep who do not follow him become lost?

• hear My voice,
• and I know them,
• and they follow Me.

• And I give them eternal life,

Sheep who have never followed Him, are not His.
His sheep who follow Him can indeed become lost.


Here is my question again, please clarify.

Does lost mean saved ?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Of course not.
Psalm 139:7-8
Where shall I go from your Spirit?Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there!If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

Although this doesn't mention God's love, I agree.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

He's not going to ask me that question.

Well, that kinda misses the point because Jesus did say those words. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:46-49

It seems to me that we should take heed and do what he said. Or is this nothing more than works salvation?

 

[Windsong]

Although this doesn't mention God's love, I agree.



JLB

God's love is innate. A passage in the bible doesn't need to mention love when God's love is that way. Always.

 

[JLB]

No. They are not certain. they departed from the faith.

Thanks for being honest.


JLB

Yes. Romans 8:35.

Paul uses a fortiori logic to explain that believers will NEVER be separated from the love of Christ. A fortiori is a logical system used in His word.

He tells us, as believers, that we can NOT be separated from the love Christ because the logical alternative is that unbelievers WILL be separated from His love.

If people could not be separated from His love.......He would Not PROMISE us that we(as born-again persons) could not be separated from His love.

the logical alternative is that unbelievers WILL be separated from His love.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:35-37

The scriptures lead me to believe He loves the lost, and the sinners, and gives them as long as possible to repent and be saved.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

 

[MarkT]

If that were true, our salvation would be based on our efforts to endure. This is nothing more or less than works salvation. The exact same kind of works salvation that the Pharisees were deceived by.

Just because the Pharisees preferred their own righteousness to the righteousness of God doesn't mean we should not pursue the righteousness of God.

Proverbs 21:21
He who pursues righteousness and kindness will find life and honor.

 

[JLB]

God's love is innate. A passage in the bible doesn't need to mention love when God's love is that way. Always.

• God is love

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:8



JLB

 

[JLB]

Just because the Pharisees preferred their own righteousness to the righteousness of God doesn't mean we should not pursue the righteousness of God.

Yes sir, as it is written -

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

Here is my question again

Can sheep who do not follow him become lost?

• hear My voice,
• and I know them,
• and they follow Me.

• And I give them eternal life,

Sheep who have never followed Him, are not His.
His sheep who follow Him can indeed become lost.


Here is my question again, please clarify.

Does lost mean saved ?



JLB

The Bible also uses the word strayed AND it also says that a good shepherd leaves the 99 and goes after the 1 and brings the lost sheep home. So, if a sheep goes astray, Jesus, the Good Shepherd, goes and brings that sheep back.

So no, a sheep can't stay lost. Not on Jesus' watch.

 

[gr8grace3]

Thanks for being honest.


JLB





35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:35-37

The scriptures lead me to believe He loves the lost, and the sinners, and gives them as long as possible to repent and be saved.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

Of Course ,JLB, He loves all mankind and is patient for ALL to come to believe in Him while we are alive.. But at the GWT Judgement unbelievers are judged and separated from Him.

And believers are PROMISED that they will never perish.....John 10:28.

 

[MarkT]

The Bible also uses the word strayed AND it also says that a good shepherd leaves the 99 and goes after the 1 and brings the lost sheep home. So, if a sheep goes astray, Jesus, the Good Shepherd, goes and brings that sheep back.

So no, a sheep can't stay lost. Not on Jesus' watch.

That's right. He won't lose any that the Father gives him.
John 6:39
and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.

 

[Windsong]

That's right. He won't lose any that the Father gives him.
John 6:39
and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.

Yes, eternal life in Jesus Christ means exactly that. Eternal. If we could do something to lose our salvation, we could achieve salvation on our own too. That's not the case. It all began with God's grace. And Jesus sealed the deal with the blood of the lamb.


John 6:39
and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose no thing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.

 

[chessman]

Can a person who is cast into the depths of hell, be separated from the love of God, in hell?

His question was about a person who is cast into the depths of Hell.

You answered with the following verses recording David's question to God;

Of course not.
Psalm 139:7-8
Where shall I go from your Spirit?Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there!If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

Is David a person who will be cast into the depths of Hell on your view?

How would you answer David's questions?

 

[JLB]

Of Course ,JLB, He loves all mankind and is patient for ALL to come to believe in Him while we are alive.. But at the GWT Judgement unbelievers are judged and separated from Him.

And believers are PROMISED that they will never perish.....John 10:28.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

The joy of salvation.


JLB

 

[Windsong]

His question was about a person who is cast into the depths of Hell.

You answered with the following verses recording David's question to God;


Is David a person who will be cast into the depths of Hell on your view?

How would you answer David's questions?

Need I repeat myself with God's answer to David's questions?

 

[chessman]

Can sheep who do not follow him become lost?

Sheep who do not follow Him are lost because they are not His sheep.

It is true what Jesus (not me) said:

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. ​

Do you think sheep who do not follow Him are His sheep?

 

[Windsong]

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

The joy of salvation.


JLB

Do sheep believe in the shepherd? Or does the Shepherd believe in the sheep?

 

[chessman]

Need I repeat myself with God's answer to David's questions?

Yes, directly after you answer my two questions about the verses you posted.

I must have missed God's answer to David's question in Psalm 139.

 

[Windsong]

Yes, directly after you answer my two questions about the verses you posted.

I must have missed God's answer to David's question in Psalm 139.

Apparently so. Perhaps reading all of Psalm 139 will help you to understand those two verses in context.
In brief, there is no place anyone can go in this life or after, Heaven or Sheol, where they are away from the presence of God.

 

[Papa Zoom]

That's right. He won't lose any that the Father gives him.
John 6:39
and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day.

That's my view. I also believe that those sheep, the ones Jesus is able to keep, are the same ones that will run the race as to win. They will endure to the end. These are the true sheep of Christ.