When does a believer receive eternal life?

[FreeGrace]

I have never seen you address nor discuss the fact that we all will stand before the Judgement seat of Christ, and be Judged according to our deeds.

I've addressed it frequently. Those who read my posts know this.

So, I'll summarize. In 2 Cor 5:10, we know that all believers will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

What it plainly doesn't say is that entrance into heaven is based on "whether our deeds are good or bad".

So, what is being taught here? What our eternal rewards are based on. We know this from what Jesus said in Rev 20:12 - “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done."

This is what John wrote in 2 John 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

Regarding unbelievers, we see their judgment in Rev 20:11-15. We see that the books of deeds are opened and they are judged regarding them. We also see the book of life, and the VERY BASIS for being cast into the lake of fire, being not having their names in that book.

So the lake of fire is NOT based on what one did during their life, but on what they failed to believe, which is in Jesus Christ as Savior.

So, what are the books of deeds the basis of? How bearable it will be for them IN the lake of fire. How do we know this? From what Jesus said in Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

It should be obvious that the residents from Sodom and Gomorrah weren't going to heaven. But at the Great White Judgment, their deeds will determine just how bearable, according to Jesus, it will be IN the lake of fire.

So, there it is. A full explanation of why every human being will be judged on their works. But NONE are judged by their works for whether they end up in heaven or hell.

If there is any disagreement, please address my points here one by one, and support your contrary opinion with supporting Scripture. Like I have done.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11

Here is the two different outcomes of being Judged according to our deeds -

Those who have read farther in Romans also know what else Paul wrote about this:
3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

So, from these 2 verses, it is clear that no human being EVER can meet the criteria in 2:6-8 and earn eternal life.

But Paul was even more clear in 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

I believe no one can argue that "continuance in doing good" is not equated with "works of the law". And so Paul eliminates your misunderstanding of 2:6-8.

If anyone could meet the criteria by continuance in doing good, then salvation and eternal life would be earned, and there would be no need for Jesus Christ and His sacrifice.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"OK, thanks for finally being this clear. And exposing your view that is in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches about WHEN one possesses eternal life. John 3:15, 16, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 ALL say plainly that those who believe HAVE eternal life."

No scripture here just an opinion tagged with a reference.

All one has to do is place their cursor over each verse and the whole verse will pop up, for anyone interested.

Since you're claiming my post has NO SCRIPTURE, I'll take that as the verses noted are not considered Scripture by yourself. Which explains a lot. Very convenient to dismiss the verses that refute your views. But I'm not surprised. What else can one do when certain Scriptures refute their views?

 

[chessman]

Romans 2:1-4 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, every one of you who passes judgment. For in that which you pass judgment on someone else, you condemn yourself, for you who are passing judgment are doing the same things. Now we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who do such things. But do you think this, O man who passes judgment on those who do such things, and who does the same things, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the wealth of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?​

to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish

God leads you to repentance! Umm, evidently the Roman believers sinned too.

However, judging a genuine Christ believer who sins (repentance or not) as being un-saved is passing pre-mature and above pay-grade-level judgment upon someone else while doing that very same thing yourself (that is unless you've been purified already and even recognized all your sins). And there's no excuse for self-righteousness.

Allow God to be God and allow the loving kindness of God to lead people to repentance. He's better at it than anyone else, including ourself. Quite good at it really. Some might say Perfect in the end as well as beginning:

Hebrews 12:2 while looking-away toward the author and perfecter of the faith— Jesus— Who endured a cross for the joy being set-before Him, having disregarded the shame, and has sat-down at the right hand of the throne of God.
​

One way or another, though; "everyone will be salted with fire." (Mark 9:49)

 

[ezra]

Recall that King Saul never did come to his senses. And God killed him

just cause he was put in as a king does not make him a believer , the Children of Israel was rejecting God

This proves that Saul was saved, though he lived rather poorly.

i can,t agree with this saul saved..God put him in because the Children of Israel wanted a king..they wanted to be like the rest of the world .this grieved Samuel very much . while there was other kings who seem to start out good but ended up bad ..so imo your reading into something that not there . not trying to be doctrine correct .i just dont see it that way

 

[ezra]

That basically means (at least to me) that HOW we live after being saved (which means being given eternal life) is what keeps us saved.

take it how you want all i am doing is standing by my convictions

 

[ezra]

My pastor does and specifically asked saved members who are not pre-pared to take the elements to get prepared or abstain. And asks for non-saved people that might be visiting to abstain.

Although I visited a church the other day that handed out the 'wine' in little plastic cups that look like to-go coffee creamer and wafers in little packets that looked like wet-wipes as everyone enter the sanctuary. I assumed they were severing doughnuts and coffee inside. Never seen that before. But hay, it made the two minute 'service' go quickly. Which he specifically said their church practices 'open communion' and for everyone to participate regardless. Times, they are a-changing.

i believe %100 in open communion i also believe in teaching ahead of time what unworthy means .you give the teaching the warning sound the trumpet . if they partake then the blood is on their own hands. i did my job.

 

[chessman]

just cause he was put in as a king does not make him a believer

True.

1 Samuel 9:2 He [Kish from Benjamin] had a son whose name was Saul, a young and handsome man. There was not a man from the Israelites more handsome than he was; from his shoulders up, he was taller than all the people. ​

Just because Saul was more handsome and tall than all the other Israelites doesn't make him a believer. But it does mean he was an Israelite from Benjamin, whom Samuel later sanctified while Saul was wondering around the Middle-East looking for live horses.

1 Samuel 10:6 Then the Spirit of Yahweh will rush upon you [Saul], and you will prophesy with them; and you will turn into a different person. ​

This doesn't make him a born from above believer, but it does make him a "different person", one turned so by the power of God "upon" him, not in him. Pretty close no doubt.

1 Samuel 10:9 Just as he [Saul] turned his shoulder to depart from Samuel, God changed his heart. And all these signs were fulfilled on that day.​

Can you see where God changed Saul's heart and he became a different person (yet still sinned and repented throughout his life like the rest of us)?

1 Samuel 16:7b For God does not see what man sees, for a man looks on the outward appearance, but Yahweh looks on the heart.”​

God looks on the heart (a heart that He changed to begin with in every genuine believer) not any outward appearance.

The last words of the OT for the Hebrews:

Malachi 4:6 And he will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the sons, and the hearts of the sons to their fathers, so that I will not come and strike the land with a ban.”
​

The NT to the Hebrews:

Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the originator and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
​

I'm originally saved and thus always saved because He's both the originator and perfecter of my faith! He's given me a new

 

[FreeGrace]

I noted this verse (2 Sam 28:19) and were Saul would end up after life on earth:
"The LORD will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines."

i can,t agree with this saul saved

I wouldn't make sense for a believer who had died and went to Paradise, would make any reference to the grave and where the physical body goes. To be "with me" is clear; Samuel told Saul that he would die the next day and join Samuel in Paradise.

..God put him in because the Children of Israel wanted a king..they wanted to be like the rest of the world .this grieved Samuel very much . while there was other kings who seem to start out good but ended up bad ..so imo your reading into something that not there . not trying to be doctrine correct .i just dont see it that way

I think Samuel's message to Saul was clear about where Saul would be the next day. With Samuel.

 

[ezra]

True.

1 Samuel 9:2 He [Kish from Benjamin] had a son whose name was Saul, a young and handsome man. There was not a man from the Israelites more handsome than he was; from his shoulders up, he was taller than all the people. ​

Just because Saul was more handsome and tall than all the other Israelites doesn't make him a believer. But it does mean he was an Israelite from Benjamin, whom Samuel later sanctified while Saul was wondering around the Middle-East looking for live horses.

1 Samuel 10:6 Then the Spirit of Yahweh will rush upon you [Saul], and you will prophesy with them; and you will turn into a different person. ​

This doesn't make him a born from above believer, but it does make him a "different person", one turned so by the power of God "upon" him, not in him. Pretty close no doubt.

1 Samuel 10:9 Just as he [Saul] turned his shoulder to depart from Samuel, God changed his heart. And all these signs were fulfilled on that day.​

Can you see where God changed Saul's heart and he became a different person (yet still sinned and repented throughout his life like the rest of us)?

1 Samuel 16:7b For God does not see what man sees, for a man looks on the outward appearance, but Yahweh looks on the heart.”​

God looks on the heart (a heart that He changed to begin with in every genuine believer) not any outward appearance.

The last words of the OT for the Hebrews:

Malachi 4:6 And he will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the sons, and the hearts of the sons to their fathers, so that I will not come and strike the land with a ban.”
​

The NT to the Hebrews:

Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the originator and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
​

I'm originally saved and thus always saved because He's both the originator and perfecter of my faith! He's given me a new

YOU stand by your convictions and i stand by mine 1Samuel 28
6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. he resorted to withcraft

 

[FreeGrace]

ezra said: ↑
just cause he was put in as a king does not make him a believer

True.

Evidence for Saul's saved state is where he went after death. Had nothing to do with being king.

1 Samuel 10:6 Then the Spirit of Yahweh will rush upon you [Saul], and you will prophesy with them; and you will turn into a different person. ​

This doesn't make him a born from above believer, but it does make him a "different person", one turned so by the power of God "upon" him, not in him. Pretty close no doubt.

1 Samuel 10:9 Just as he [Saul] turned his shoulder to depart from Samuel, God changed his heart. And all these signs were fulfilled on that day.​

Can you see where God changed Saul's heart and he became a different person (yet still sinned and repented throughout his life like the rest of us)?

1 Samuel 16:7b For God does not see what man sees, for a man looks on the outward appearance, but Yahweh looks on the heart.”​

God looks on the heart (a heart that He changed to begin with in every genuine believer) not any outward appearance.

And where he went after death, Paradise.

The last words of the OT for the Hebrews:

Malachi 4:6 And he will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the sons, and the hearts of the sons to their fathers, so that I will not come and strike the land with a ban.”
​

The NT to the Hebrews:

Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the originator and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
​

I'm originally saved and thus always saved because He's both the originator and perfecter of my faith! He's given me a new

Amen!

 

[JLB]

What it plainly doesn't say is that entrance into heaven is based on "whether our deeds are good or bad".

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

• that each one may receive the things done in the body,

Here are the two choices of the things that this same Apostle Paul says that each one may receive.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Jesus says the same thing.


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29


All these scripture are about the Day of Judgement.

All these scripture show use that we will receive either eternal life or eternal condemnation on the Day of Judgement.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

YOU stand by your convictions and i stand by mine 1Samuel 28
6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. he resorted to withcraft

Interesting that the context stopped with v.15. Just 4 verses later Samuel tells Saul that the next day Saul and his sons would be with Samuel. If one accepts that Samuel did return to the earth for 1 very special seance, and exchanged the comments noted up to v.15, there is no reason not to accept the rest of the conversation through v.19.

 

[FreeGrace]

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

• that each one may receive the things done in the body,

Here are the two choices of the things that this same Apostle Paul says that each one may receive.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Jesus says the same thing.


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29


All these scripture are about the Day of Judgement.

All these scripture show use that we will receive either eternal life or eternal condemnation on the Day of Judgement.


JLB

I've already responded to all this and refuted it as well. There isn't anything more to say about it. People are gonna believe what they want to believe. In spite of Scriptural facts.

 

[chessman]

All these scripture show use that we will receive either eternal life or eternal condemnation on the Day of Judgement.

And the verses that speak of believers receiving Eternal Life, indeed salvation, prior to The Judgment show us .... what?

Do you think genuine believers can lose their eternal life after the Judgment? If so, why. If not, why?

 

[chessman]

that each one may receive the things done in the body,

What about the things done in the mind?

 

[JLB]

What about the things done in the mind?

Go ahead and post the scriptures about the Day of Judgement and the things done in the mind so we can all discuss them.

 

[ezra]

Do you think genuine believers can lose their eternal life after the Judgment? If so, why. If not, why?

come on your grasping at straws which judgement ? judgement of works? nations ?the white throne judgement seat

 

[Papa Zoom]

We are saved by grace alone. Nothing else adds to salvation and nothing else takes away. It's a free gift of God and it's a permanent gift.

Romans 11:6 ESV
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:10 ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Romans 3:24 ESV
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

 

[reba]

No scripture here just an opinion tagged with a reference.

Good grief i see nothing wrong with giving a reference to scripture ...hover over it and it appears ... giving a scripture reference /or copy and paste is acceptable ..

 

[reba]

.