Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[brujaq]

I agree the Nephilim were/are men . So are the sons of God . When Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father the devil ,they of course were men . Is there any reason to believe that devils and fallen angels marrying women today would not be rampant if it were possible ? jus sayin .. Another point is, did these angelic sons of God marry these daughters of men and provide for them ? Did they care for them ? Did they grow old with them ? How could they even live with them long enough for the wives to bear children ? Did they appear and disappear at will as spirit beings ? Lots of questions ..

 

[chessman]

I don't see the words sisters mentioned here.

Do you see the word "again" starting out verse 2:1?

I suggest you read back a little and find where this same thing happens previously in Chapter 1, that's happened "again" in chapter 2. In fact Job used to do it "all the time":

Job 1:4-5 And his sons used to go and hold a feast at each other’s house on his day, and they would send, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. Then when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send, and he would sanctify them. Thus he would arise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of all of them, because Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their heart.” This is what Job used to do all the time.

Job 1:2 And seven sons and three daughters were born to him. [Job had 10 children that ''perhaps' sinned while eating and drinking together.]

Leviticus 18:9, 23-24 As for your sister’s nakedness, whether your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether born at home or born abroad, you must not expose their nakedness.
... (aunts, cousins etc. etc.)
And you shall not have sexual relations with any animal, becoming unclean with it; and a woman shall not stand before an animal to copulate with it—that is a perversion. ...

“‘You must not make yourself unclean in any of these things, because the nations whom I am driving out from your presence were made unclean by all of these. [and some men with six fingers and six toes and overly large/tall were offspring as a result. Even their animals were all perverted.]
​

Are you aware of a law of God whereby He says, don't have sex with fallen angels?

 

[JLB]

Do you see the word "again" starting out verse 2:1?

I suggest you read back a little and find where this same thing happens previously in Chapter 1, that's happened "again" in chapter 2. In fact Job used to do it "all the time":

Job 1:4-5 And his sons used to go and hold a feast at each other’s house on his day, and they would send, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. Then when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send, and he would sanctify them. Thus he would arise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of all of them, because Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their heart.” This is what Job used to do all the time.

Job 1:2 And seven sons and three daughters were born to him. [Job had 10 children that ''perhaps' sinned while eating and drinking together.]

Leviticus 18:9, 23-24 As for your sister’s nakedness, whether your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether born at home or born abroad, you must not expose their nakedness.
... (aunts, cousins etc. etc.)
And you shall not have sexual relations with any animal, becoming unclean with it; and a woman shall not stand before an animal to copulate with it—that is a perversion. ...

“‘You must not make yourself unclean in any of these things, because the nations whom I am driving out from your presence were made unclean by all of these. [and some men with six fingers and six toes and overly large/tall were offspring as a result. Even their animals were all perverted.]
​

Are you aware of a law of God whereby He says, don't have sex with fallen angels?

I think you are in the wrong thread?

What in the world does the word sisters in Leviticus or Job have to do with Genesis 6?


Please show from the scriptures where there were any offspring other than Nephilim giants produced by the sons of God and the daughters of men.

My point is that the only offspring that were produced from the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

This scripture teaches us the only offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.


Hopefully by this you understand that if your claim was true and Noah was a son of God, like verse 4 says, then all his offspring would be Nephilim giants.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Did they appear and disappear at will as spirit beings ?

Yes they did, which is why they were unaffected by the flood.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Seriously???

You are the one who made the claim We can't have gender without both male and female.


Show from the scriptures where it says this.

How many Gods do you think there are?
Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Mar 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
You can't or at least you shouldn't try to teach gender issues using the triune Godhead as any sort of teaching example.

Is the term father male or female?


JLB

 

[chessman]

I think you are in the wrong thread?

Then you're mistaken. And not reading the Context of Job 2. No real surprise though.

 

[JLB]

Then you're mistaken. And not reading the Context of Job 2. No real surprise though.

Here is Job 2.


The sons of God mentioned were angels.

• there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord

Thanks for making my point that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6 were angels.


Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”

4 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

6 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took for himself a potsherd with which to scrape himself while he sat in the midst of the ashes.

9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this adversity that had come upon him, each one came from his own place—Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. For they had made an appointment together to come and mourn with him, and to comfort him. 12 And when they raised their eyes from afar, and did not recognize him, they lifted their voices and wept; and each one tore his robe and sprinkled dust on his head toward heaven. 13 So they sat down with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great. Job 2:1-13


JLB

 

[chessman]

The sons of God mentioned were angels.

No they weren't. Was Adam an angel or Job?

Again, the Bible is clear on who "the Sons of God" are:

Romans 8:14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.​

there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord

No, it says "again there was a day ..."
Once again, your methods are exposed. Cut out the "again" in verse 1 and 'call it' Job 2 and totally ignore the plain fact that Job 2 was referring back to days where he would need to sanctify his children "after" they would 'celebrate' the feast with each other (absent Job). Why did they need sanctification??? What were some of the most heinous sexual crimes of his day and region???

Job 1:5 Then when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send, and he would sanctify them. Thus he would arise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of all of them, because Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their heart.” This is what Job used to do all the time. ​

You didn't answer my previous question from my post:

Are you aware of a law of God whereby He says, don't have sex with fallen angels?

Here's another question given your assumption:
Why would Job need to sanctify his sons AND daughters after they had finished their 'celebrations' eating and drinking with each other? (Which BTW was pointed out to you that his daughters were indeed present with his sons (and Satan in their midst). Yet you don't even seem to get the point.

And why would God prohibit sex between brothers/sisters and people/animals if that's not was going on in their day and region?

Job 1:13 And then there was one day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their firstborn brother’s house. ​

Genesis 6:1-2 And it happened that, when humankind began to multiply on the face of the ground, daughters were born to them. Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose.​

Leviticus 18:9 As for your sister’s nakedness, whether your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether born at home or born abroad, you must not expose their nakedness.

Leviticus 18:14, 16 You must not expose the nakedness of your father’s brother; you must not have sex with his wife—she is your aunt. You must not expose the nakedness of your brother’s wife; she is your brother’s nakedness. ​

 

[JLB]

No they weren't. Was Adam an angel or Job?

Again, the Bible is clear on who "the Sons of God" are:

Romans 8:14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

So now that it's clear from Job, the very text you gave, that the sons of God were angels, you are now going to try to quote new testament scriptures?


The sons of God mentioned in Job were angels.

• there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord

Thanks for making my point that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6 were angels.


Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2



These sons of God were angels who stood before the Lord along with Satan.



JLB

 

[JLB]

No, it says "again there was a day ..."
Once again, your methods are exposed. Cut out the "again" in verse 1 and 'call it' Job 2 and totally ignore the plain fact that Job 2 was referring back to days where he would need to sanctify his children "after" they would 'celebrate' the feast with each other (absent Job). Why did they need sanctification??? What were some of the most heinous sexual crimes of his day and region???

Job 1:5 Then when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send, and he would sanctify them. Thus he would arise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of all of them, because Job thought, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their heart.” This is what Job used to do all the time.
You didn't answer my previous question from my post:

What does it matter if Job offered burn offerings on behalf of his family, does that make him or his offspring a son of God?

Sons of God in the old testament referred to angels, as Jesus had not died on the cross.


Furthermore in Genesis 6:4 it shows us the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

Please show from the scriptures where there were any offspring other than Nephilim giants produced by the sons of God and the daughters of men.

My point is that the only offspring that were produced from the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

This scripture teaches us the only offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.

Show scripture where any "man" in the old testament had offspring that were Nephilim giants, then and only then will you have made a valid point.

If you believe Noah was a son of God, then show from the scriptures where his offspring were Nephilim giants.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Sons of God in the old testament referred to angels,

No it doesn't. You just assume it's so.

Was Adam an angel or a male humankind?

What does it matter if Job offered burn offerings on behalf of his family, does that make him or his offspring a son of God?

Because it's a day when sanctification for sins are made "before God" as already has been pointed out to you:

Exodus 29:25 And you will take them from their hand and turn them to smoke on the altar beside the burnt offering as a fragrance of appeasement before Yahweh; it is an offering made by fire before Yahweh.

The verse "again" describes when Job (called God's male in the OT) came before God via his burnt offerings for the sanctification of his children's sins done while eating and drinking with each other.

 

[calvin]

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (http://drmsh.com/), who is both a Christian and a serious Hebrew scholar, has written a fascinating book dealing with the Nephilim and the entire OT understanding of the heavenly realm: The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview, https://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Realm...qid=1465091510&sr=8-1&keywords=michael+heiser.

I have read it, and it is indeed fascinating. There is also a somewhat less scholarly version, Supernatural: What the Bible Teaches About the Unseen World - and Why It Matters, https://www.amazon.com/Supernatural...qid=1465091510&sr=8-2&keywords=michael+heiser, which I have not read (but nothing about The Unseen Realm struck me as "too scholarly" for average readers).

From Dr. Heiser's resume:

Ph.D. (2004), University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI; Department of Hebrew and Semitic Studies; minor in Classical Studies. My dissertation was entitled, “The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature.” The dissertation involved exegesis primarily in the Pentateuch, Wisdom Literature, and Isaiah, but also dealt at length with Israelite Religion (all stages) and Second Temple texts.

Scholar-in-Residence, Logos Bible Software, Bellingham, WA. Logos is the leading creator of software for research in the original languages of the Bible and digital library collections for biblical studies. I am currently responsible for reviewing academic content and creating digital tools for classroom use or independent learners.​

Hello Runner, calvin here.
I just waisted about 26 bucks AU on that book.
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Reading some of his works brought this scripture to mind.
Why?
This is serious business.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to speak much evil on the topic of Nephilim and angels mating with women.
You see in order to legitimize the claim that the sons of God in g6:4 are naughty angels, one needs to endow them with abilities they just don't have.
They would need to have the attributes of deity. That is exactly what that book claims. Re read it yourself and you will see what I mean the claim is also made that Sarah conceived after the physical return of the Lord at the appointed time about 12 months after the encounter at Mamre.
It further goes on to sully the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb.
Read from page 183 onward, but know this; what he is teaching is totally wrong. And it is truly a Giant Problem beginning if not earlier, with the assertion that the Serpent (Gen3) was actually a divine being.
If that is not outright blasphemy then I don't know what is.
I don't care how many Phds a person has, on spiritual matters unless they know Jesus as their personal saviour, they don't know anything.
Runner, you are young, my advice to you is to read and study the Bible continuously and shy away from books that purport to have some level of spiritual wisdom or authority.
A few verses from God's word to meditate on:
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Let this be so for you in your walk with the Lord.

 

[JLB]

No it doesn't. You just assume it's so.

Was Adam an angel or a male humankind?

This has already be addressed.

I have given the scriptures that show sons of God was a reference to angels, with the exception of Adam.

You never answered my question or provided any scriptures that prove Adam and Eve produced a son of God through natural birth, the reason you didn't have any scriptures to back that up is a son of God is produced by Spiritual birth, through faith in Jesus Christ.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

Please show us an old testament scripture that teaches us men were born again in the old testament.


Stop stalling and post the scriptures that show Nephilim giants were the offspring of "godly" men and daughters of men.


Show the scripture that Noah produced Nephilim giants, since he was the father of all the families of the earth after the flood.

These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood. Genesis 10:32


No Nephilim giants in Noah's genealogy.


How were there Nephilim giants on the earth after the flood, since all flesh was wiped out except Noah and his family.

My point is that the only offspring that were produced from the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.


Case Closed.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Because it's a day when sanctification for sins are made "before God" as already has been pointed out to you:

So?

 

[JLB]

The verse "again" describes when Job (called God's male in the OT) came before God via his burnt offerings for the sanctification of his children's sins done while eating and drinking with each other.

So?

Was Job born again by faith in Jesus Christ?

Or are you teaching that burning up an animal makes a person a son of God?


JLB

 

[chessman]

So

Because "coming before God" has zilch to do with angels coming/going to Heaven. It's a term the Bible uses for burnt offerings. Like done by Job for his sons and daughters.

Which is were you evidently originated this idea of yours to begin with. There is no verse that says Adam and all those in the NT are 'exceptions'.

Nor does the Bible say anything about angels having sex with women.

 

[chessman]

Was Job born again by faith in Jesus Christ?

He was led by the Spirit of God (which is the Biblical definition of a Son of God) to offer burnt offerings for the sins of his sons and daughters whi were being led by Satan going to/fro among them.

Or are you teaching that burning up an animal makes a person a son of God?

Why put words in my mouth (or the Bible) or take words away from my point (or Job 2:1)???

I said Job offerings burnt offerings is referring to 'coming before God' for appeasement for sin. And it is.

Exodus 29:25 And you will take them from their hand and turn them to smoke on the altar beside the burnt offering as a fragrance of appeasement before Yahweh; it is an offering made by fire before Yahweh.

 

[JLB]

He was led by the Spirit of God (which is the Biblical definition of a Son of God) to offer burnt offerings for the sins of his sons and daughters whi were being led by Satan going to/fro among them.

Please show the scripture in Job where it says Job was a led by the Spirit of God, and show where Job's sons were Nephilim giants, since that was what was the offspring produced by the sons of God and daughters of men.

If people could become sons of God by burning up animals then why did Jesus Christ have to die on the cross for our sins?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why put words in my mouth (or the Bible) or take words away from my point (or Job 2:1)???

I said Job offerings burnt offerings is referring to 'coming before God' for appeasement for sin. And it is.

How does burning animals make Job a son of God?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Nor does the Bible say anything about angels having sex with women.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

Can you show from the scripture where sons of God and daughters of men produced anything other than Nephilim giants?

Can you show from the scriptures where "godly men" produced Nephilim giants?



There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children o them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Here are the facts about this scripture:

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

• It wasn't just one but plural sons of God were involved.
• The sons of God were not affected by the flood and continued to produce Nephilim giants afterward.
• When the sons of God came into the daughters of men they produced Nephilim giants.

Since all flesh was wiped out by the flood, but the sons of God continued afterward to produce Nephilim giants, that means they were angels, or Noah was the source of the Nephilim giants.

If Noah was the source of the Nephilim giants then that would make his offspring Nephilim giants, because the scripture says the giants were produced when the sons of God, came into the daughters of men, as there is no record of any other offspring being produced by the relations between the sons of God and the daughters of men, other that Nephilim giants.

Again, the only offspring that was produced by the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

That plainly means if Noah is the source of the Nephilim giants, then his sons would be Nephilim giants, which means it is not only Noah as the only son of God left on earth, because his sons would be Nephilim giants, not sons of God.

So that means Noah is the only source after the flood that can produce Nephilim giants, since the scripture says that There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.

• Not when Nephilim giants came into the daughters of men.

Since your theory that it was not angels but "godly men", who produced these Nephilim giants, then it could have only been Noah himself who was the source of the Nephilim giants after the flood, and since we know that the scripture says it was sons of God, [plural] that produced Nephilim giants both before and after the flood, that makes your "theory" that the sons of God were "godly men" and not angels.



For Noah to be a son of God that produced Nephilim giants, then everyone of Noah's offspring [Shem, Ham and Japeth] would be Nephilim giants, meaning that everyone after the flood is Nephilim giants.


So again my question remains... Please show us how Noah and his sons produced Nephilim giants after the flood. [from scripture]



JLB