What Gifts from God are revocable?

[FreeGrace]

JLB said:
'the lexicon gymnastics in the world won't change faith to something that is earned or worked for."

What you call 'lexicon gymnastics' is called Bible Study by Bible students.

 

[FreeGrace]

Is this an OSAS thread in disguise?

No, but eternal security is related to much of Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

gr8grace3 said: ↑
NICE Chessman. The neuter gender refers back to grace, faith,salvation as ALL gifts.

Prove your opinion with scripture.

How about yourself?

Until you do, it's just opinion, which is all OSAS is, man's doctrine propped up by man's opinion.

Ditto here.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm still waiting for you to post the scripture that uses the word "revoked".

That's just the point. There are NO verses about any of God's gifts being revoked. Why would there be when God's gifts are irrevocable?

Kind of a silly question.

 

[FreeGrace]

God gave Adam the Garden of Eden ... complete with access to the tree of Life.
Adam sinned and God revoked the gift.

Please support your notion that the Garden was a gift to Adam.

 

[FreeGrace]

And for the record........this thread is about using scripture to prove that God deviates or shifts on His gifts to us.......but it seems loss of salvation believers want to derail and make it about eternal security.

Not one person has exegeted the James verse I provided to make it say," there is variation and there is shifting shadow in Gods Gifts to us."

 

[FreeGrace]

Sure Brother. It means for those who abide in Him. Then it is irrevocable. Then no one can snatch you from His hand.

Whoa there. There is NOTHING in John 10:28 (the verse about not being snatched from God's hand) about any condition, such as abiding in Him.

What's been done here is a conflation of 2 unrelated verses; one from John 15 and the other from John 10. One is about fellowship and the other one is about eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

I didn't say faith was any less of a gift than the substance of salvation. You're not reading/understanding the NT Greek Scholar's point nor mine.
If you'd actually consider the slightest possibility that you just might (just maybe) be wrong on your grammatical claim (and you are as shown previously) about verse 8, then you could see his conclusion from the Greek grammar is obviously what Paul means because of the larger context of the letter (and other NT Texts) and for goodness sake, the very next verse. Not just because of the gender matching required by NT Greek grammar.

It is the gift of God— 9 not of works, in order that no one may boast.
​

Or simply read Paul's reason for saying what he just said in 8-9:

10 For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared-beforehand in order that we might walk in them.11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh— the ones being called “the uncircumcised” by the one being called “the circumcised” (one done-by-human-hands in the flesh)— 12 that you were at that time without Christ, having been excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without-God in the world.​

What's the "gift" is this whole New Covenant (salvation by grace through faith, without need of our works because we have His workmanship) as opposed to the old covenant (done by-human hands in the flesh like circumcision and sacrificial offerings, etc. over and over and over (sin, work to cleanse yourself, sin work to cleanse yourself, repeat, ...).

But then again, some people simply like to boast about their workmanship versus His workmanship. Old habits die hard.
I say out with the old, in with the new gift. I appreciate my gift of God, His workmanship.

Excellent analysis!!

 

[FreeGrace]

last one was 31 pages long ..how many would you like to see ? i find it sad some would rather argue over osas instead of post about our walk Ephesians 4:1

Absolutely!!

Seems the OSNAS group only sees conditional security when the verses they use to support loss of salvation is about fellowship, which is about our walk with the Lord. That group seems oblivious to the fact that one must be in fellowship in order to even walk the walk.

 

[JLB]

That's just the point. There are NO verses about any of God's gifts being revoked. Why would there be when God's gifts are irrevocable?

Kind of a silly question.

Since the word irrevocable doesn't mean what you claim, then it is moot.

Please show us a scripture that says eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God.


Here is mine, that shows a person who is given access to eternal life, can indeed be removed from having access to eternal life, just as Adam and Eve were removed from having access to the Tree of Life.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

The only eternal life there is, is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are joined to Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life that is in Him.

Those who are in Him, then removed from Him, are no longer joined to Him and are no longer one spirit with Him who is our Life.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

• Those who are connected or joined to Him, have access to the eternal life that flows from Him.
• Those who are removed from Him, no longer have access to the eternal life that is found only in Him.

JLB

 

[JLB]

gr8grace3 said: ↑
NICE Chessman. The neuter gender refers back to grace, faith,salvation as ALL gifts.

How about yourself?


Ditto here.

No scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I take this as post #73 was ignored. I thoroughly explained WHY life cannot be considered a gift."

The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1

Do we earn our "life"?

Did you earn the last head cold you received from someone?

Case closed.
JLB

Case of the flu maybe? Was your last case of the flu a gift or not? Did you thank your donor for that gift?

 

[FreeGrace]

Since the word irrevocable doesn't mean what you claim, then it is moot.

Your statement here applies directly to yourself.

Please show us a scripture that says eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God.

Sure. Rom 6:23 is about one of God's gifts, eternal life. Rom 11:29 is about all of God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"I take this as post #73 was ignored. I thoroughly explained WHY life cannot be considered a gift."

I gave you scripture which shows that the Lord forms our spirit within us, even in our mothers womb, which is why we are considered alive, or have life.

Other wise we would be dead in our mothers womb and no fetus can grow while it is dead.

• For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

This is done before we are even born and have no ability to earn our life.

The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1



JLB

 

[WIP]

Okay, I think I've seen enough animosity tossed back and forth. If you all wish to continue with this discussion take it down a notch or more appropriately a jump!

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"I take this as post #73 was ignored. I thoroughly explained WHY life cannot be considered a gift."

Did you earn the last head cold you received from someone?


Case of the flu maybe? Was your last case of the flu a gift or not? Did you thank your donor for that gift?

Here is my question that you have ignored now for years.

• Where is the scripture that shows us, those who do not believe any longer have eternal life?

We are in a covenant relationship with Christ, through faith in Him.

We are joined to Him as a man and woman are joined through covenant relationship.

Your whole theory is based on the fact that it's impossible to become divorced, or become disconnected from Christ, to whom we are joined.

5 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”17 5 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make themmembers of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

This is illustrated in many ways in scripture by the Lord Himself, using the natural things of this earth, earthly things, to reveal a spiritual or heavenly reality.


As long as we are joined to the Lord, we are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


If we become disconnected from Him, then we no longer are joined to the life of His Spirit; The Spirit of eternal life.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

You seem to dismiss this an an unimportant "agricultural metaphor", when Jesus is teaching us a life or death principle.


Just as a branch is dependent upon the Vine that it is connected to, we also are dependent on Christ to provide us eternal life, that is only found in Him.

Apart from, and disconnected from Him, we do not have eternal life.

This connection to Him comes from believing.


I have asked many times for you to provide the scripture that teaches us, a person who believes for a while, then does not believe any longer, still has eternal life.


No one who is separated or cut off from Christ has eternal life in and of themselves.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Sure. Rom 6:23 is about one of God's gifts, eternal life. Rom 11:29 is about all of God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

Nothing here about eternal life being irrevocable?

Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:28-29

The context refers to unbelieving Jews who are enemies of the Gospel.


Is it your claim that enemies of the Gospel have eternal life?



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

The Promise:

I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you and make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

God was in control of the promise. In the Mosaic covenant, Israel was in control of the covenant (Exodus 19:5)

 

[JLB]

Sure. Rom 6:23 is about one of God's gifts, eternal life. Rom 11:29 is about all of God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

Nothing here about eternal life being an irrevocable gift of God?

No surprise! Since there is no scripture in the bible that says this.


22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23


Again the context shows the condition for which one will receive eternal life and when they will receive it.

• and the end, everlasting life.

Those who become slaves of God and His righteousness will receive in the end, at the coming of the Lord on the day of Judgement, after He has judged each person according to His deeds, eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Same Paul, same book of Romans -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2;6-8




JLB

 

[JLB]

God was in control of the promise. In the Mosaic covenant, Israel was in control of the covenant (Exodus 19:5)

Yes! God is in control of the promise, which was based on the condition of obedience.

Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Genesis 12:1-3


The Condition which called for obedience: The obedience of faith.

Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you.


The Promise:

I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you and make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”



But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26



JLB