the security of our salvation

[JLB]

JLB i know the scriptures how quick are we to let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

this falls under Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. we sin when we fail to do good we sin when we fail to attempt to restore

Maybe we can start by agreeing on the obvious.

A brother who wanders from the truth, has become a sinner, and must repent, turn back to God and be reconciled back to Him, or he will face eternal death.


JLB

 

[JLB]

that was not hard at all ..it would take a open mind led by the spirit to discuss this . as i have stated both sides has scriptures to prove there doctrine . i refrained from saying either way . my only point is at what point we become lost again? what few that i know that made a profession to salvation simply does not lead the life in Christ . to be honest they never stuck with it very long . so i question did they get really saved . a conversation i had with my brother on baptism. he is a pastor was baptizing folks or had already .really dont remember .i said it seems much emphasis was place on baptism . i see the need for salvation. his remark we only baptize let God do the rest.. i agree but i still put more emphases on being saved than baptism . i do believe in both.. .a thought come to mind were discussing can we or can we not.. for those who have went back to the old life style .. maybe shame on us for not doing our job...
Galatians 6:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

how quick are we to go them in love try to get them back on track..?

What’s your point?


JLB

 

[ezra]

What’s your point?


JLB

you made it for me have a good night

 

[ezra]

Maybe we can start by agreeing on the obvious.

A brother who wanders from the truth, has become a sinner, and must repent, turn back to God and be reconciled back to Him, or he will face eternal death.


JLB

we been in agreement a sinner must repent just not sure at the point of deemed lost his mercy endures..but not to the point living how we want..

 

[JLB]

we been in agreement a sinner must repent just not sure at the point of deemed lost his mercy endures..but not to the point living how we want..

A brother who wanders away from Christ and becomes lost, has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.




JLB

 

[chessman]

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?

Based on this Scripture, if even one of His sheep were to leave the 99% who remain safely with Him does He go after that 1% “until He finds it”?

Now that’s security!

 

[ezra]

Based on this Scripture, if even one of His sheep were to leave the 99% who remain safely with Him does He go after that 1% “until He finds it”?

Now that’s security!

security that is called Love

 

[JLB]

Based on this Scripture, if even one of His sheep were to leave the 99% who remain safely with Him does He go after that 1% “until He finds it”?

Now that’s security!

No He doesn’t, as the scripture plainly indicates.


Jesus is seated upon the throne, in heaven, at the right hand of God.

It is the responsibility of the Church to preach the Gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils.


That is why He has given the Church His Spirit.


It is up to us to go after brothers who wander away and become lost.


I have presented several scriptures that teach this.


If we are to come to a common understanding about this subject, then we must examine the words of the scripture themselves, and stop “making up”, scenarios that arise from our own preconceived ideas.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Jesus is teaching His disciples, the Church, what to do if one of His sheep should go astray, and how it pleases heaven if they should repent


Matthew goes into more detail about how a person is to be restored, as well as the principle of forgiveness for this restoration to take place.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

1. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’​

3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


A brother who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance, or he will perish.




JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I definitely see sanctification as a process.


I don't see that we "lose our salvation", since we will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith, or as an end result of our faith.

I do see see that we can become lost, in which we are no longer reconciled to God, and are as a sinner in need of repentance.

In this state of being lost, we are no longer justified, and must repent, return to God and be restored, of be lost for eternity.


This subject needs to be discussed openly and honestly, with the scriptures that teach us about this subject.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Jesus is teaching His disciples, the Church, what to do if one of His sheep should go astray, and how it pleases heaven if they should repent

Matthew goes into more detail about how a person is to be restored, as well as the principle of forgiveness for this restoration to take place.


James also deals with this, and gives us some insight, as well.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

1. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’​

3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.​

James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• A brother who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance, or he will perish.

JLB

I think there is a difference between being lost and a hardening of the heart.

People who are lost, become lost because they dont know the "way". And I think we can write much on the "way".

Jesus gave us a promise. He said that He would never leave or forsake us. Just as Peter lost his way when he stepped out on the water, Jesus will be our rescue.

We become lost because we dont know how to navigate a life situation and the world around us doesnt make since. We try our best most of the time, but there are moments that our struggles get the best of us.

If one were to die in this state, I do not believe they loose their eternal security. Why? Because they are knocking, seeking and asking... sometimes it takes a lifetime... they have not hardened their hearts, and simply put "they know not what they do"

I think it's when one hardens their heart and refuses to turn toward God that the tables turn and 'They will never e ter my rest."

Can a heart get hardened when they are lost? Yes, but it can get softened just as well. And I think we, the church, play a role in that reconcilliation.

.02

 

[chessman]

If we are to come to a common understanding about this subject, then we must examine the words of the scripture themselves, and stop “making up”, scenarios that arise from our own preconceived ideas.

I agree, which is why I asked you if He goes after even His one sheep until it is found. Which is what the passage teaches.

Jesus is teaching His disciples, the Church, what to do if one of His sheep should go astray,

Actually, it is the owner of the 100 sheep which goes after even the one. Nothing about His 99 sheep going after the one is being taught here. Nope, all 100 are His sheep and He is the one going after the one.

And both the Pharisees and the scribes were complaining, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them!” So he told them this parable, saying, “What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?​

Luke 15:2-4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:2-4&version=LEB

What man of you, having a hundred sheep,

Were His disciples Pharisees and Scribes (Man of you)?

 

[JLB]

I think there is a difference between being lost and a hardening of the heart.

People who are lost, become lost because they dont know the "way". And I think we can write much on the "way".

Jesus gave us a promise. He said that He would never leave or forsake us. Just as Peter lost his way when he stepped out on the water, Jesus will be our rescue.

We become lost because we dont know how to navigate a life situation and the world around us doesnt make since. We try our best most of the time, but there are moments that our struggles get the best of us.

If one were to die in this state, I do not believe they loose their eternal security. Why? Because they are knocking, seeking and asking... sometimes it takes a lifetime... they have not hardened their hearts, and simply put "they know not what they do"

I think it's when one hardens their heart and refuses to turn toward God that the tables turn and 'They will never e ter my rest."

Can a heart get hardened when they are lost? Yes, but it can get softened just as well. And I think we, the church, play a role in that reconcilliation.

.02

Brother, I agree with some of what you are saying here, for sure.


However, if we as a community are to come to the unity of faith, having a common understanding of the scriptures, then we are going to have to humble ourselves and submit to the words of Jesus Christ, the truth, and lay down our emotional speculation about all the circumstances and situations that we and our loved ones are going through and embrace the truth without reservation.

Only knowing the truth will set us free.


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


His words, His Gospel, His commandments are the truth.


Brothers and sisters in Christ, who wander from the truth are lost.


Either lost means lost or it doesn’t.


Going after a brother who has wandered from the truth to turn him back, so his soul will be saved from eternal death, is “the way” of love.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Love covers a multitude of sins.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Actually, it is the owner of the 100 sheep which goes after even the one. Nothing about His 99 sheep going after the one is being taught here. Nope, all 100 are His sheep and He is the one going after the one.

And both the Pharisees and the scribes were complaining, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them!” So he told them this parable, saying, “What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?Luke 15:2-4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:2-4&version=LEB

Please point out in these passages where Jesus comes from heaven and does the searching to find that which is lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:8-10



It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32



“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17




Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20






JLB

 

[ezra]

I think there is a difference between being lost and a hardening of the heart.

People who are lost, become lost because they dont know the "way". And I think we can write much on the "way".

we are so quick to kick a brother or sister to the ditch line when the err what ever we want to call it . we are to be watchman Ezekiel chapter 3 and 33 .if we fail to sound the alarm blow the trumpet and something happens to them . there Blood is upon us our hands
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

what about our responsibility ? what is
his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. are we doing our point .this post was never my intent of the can you or you cant . it was based on the promise of God . we can go to bed saved we can wake up still saved .repentance confession is a must . my writing skills is not good. i am not good at writing words . we are more secure in our salvation than what many think.. how long did it take the prodigal son ? he had to hit rock bottom feed the pigs eat with the pigs for a jew this was a MAJOR no no. when he decided to come back there stood dad waiting on him. the very moment he got with in range . dad ran down there embraced him ==love same Love our heavenly father has for us. but see in this embrace of love it was also protection.

what happened to a rebellious child? took out side the city and stoned ..how many of us have been rebellious .fail to do what God told us to do? would that be rebellion ? when its us things are different . maybe we seen something out of other Christians. maybe we been hurt through the church congregation .
maybe we got mad and stopped going to church.. a brother/sister ask do you think your still saved? we say well yes of course we are.. but to the other we cast judgment .
..dont any say they have not.. we are quick to pull our glasses down at the end of our nose and say well i never .
yes Jlb BROUGHT SOMETHING UP RESTORATION .what if we fail to do so did we sin did we repent ?

 

[ezra]

Love covers a multitude of sins.

it surely does--how soon we forget

 

[Senior]

... it seems much emphasis was place on baptism . i see the need for salvation. his remark we only baptize let God do the rest.. i agree but i still put more emphases on being saved than baptism . i do believe in both..

What do you think about Paul saying that
he doesn't come to baptize, but to preach the gospel?

 

[JLB]

I agree, which is why I asked you if He goes after even His one sheep until it is found. Which is what the passage teaches.



Actually, it is the owner of the 100 sheep which goes after even the one. Nothing about His 99 sheep going after the one is being taught here. Nope, all 100 are His sheep and He is the one going after the one.

And both the Pharisees and the scribes were complaining, saying, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them!” So he told them this parable, saying, “What man of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the grassland and go after the one that was lost until he finds it?​

Luke 15:2-4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:2-4&version=LEB



Were His disciples Pharisees and Scribes (Man of you)?

Are there any scriptures in the New Testament that show us, after Jesus ascended to heaven, and poured out His Spirit upon the Church, that He does the work of preaching the Gospel, healing the sick, casting out devils, or going after the lost to reconcil them back to God?


What the scriptures teach us, is we have been given the ministry of reconciliation.


18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20



Paul shows us this principle.

• And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17




JLB

 

[ezra]

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

what if we fail to do this after the holy spirit is leading us to we refuse -------rebellion--which is the same as ???????? witchcraft

 

[ezra]

What do you think about Paul saying that
he doesn't come to baptize, but to preach the gospel?

he came to preach --what do you think ?

 

[JLB]

it surely does--how soon we forget

Speak for yourself.



JLB

 

[ezra]

Speak for yourself.



JLB

hit a nerve i see