Eternal hell with new creation?

[T. E. Smith]

The new creation theme in the Bible does not seem to go with the notion of an eternal hell. Isaiah 55 and Romans 8 teach God's renewal of the world into perfection. It is said that in the future, Christ will be "all in all." It does not seem to make sense for God's new creation, then, to have an eternal torture chamber in it. In the new creation, God returns the world to its state before sin. How can Hell be part of that intent? How can Christ be all in all, with unbelievers tortured forever?

 

[jerry63935]

I think hell is misunderstood in the church. I also think that the church used hell as a scare tactic to keep partitioners in line. As a result, in some circles God is always angry and punishes us for our sins. This notion couldn’t be further from the truth.

Scripture says that God desires all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 This gives us our first insight into Gods nature. Jesus, looking over Jerusalem yearns and says, ERV

at that it does along with not willing any should perish . granted there are those who teach he more or less has a big hammer waiting to knock us in the head. take us out... He gives as many chances as needed .but one day that chance will be no more.. a person who dies without Christ goes to hell that aint no scare tactic but Facts

 

[jasonc]

The Greeks are deep in mythologies and also paganism as they chase after many gods and idols.

My point words mean things.

 

[crossnote]

Gods justice scales=perfect balance-an eye for an eye--He does not go against that. So for 70-100 years of an unrepented sinful life God could not, or would not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of punishment. He would never go the bad angle way as judgement-His love and Merci would go the other way if any way at all. He is not a sadist.

Do you have Scripture backing for that assertion? You seem to be spitting in Jesus face calling Him a liar...

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:11-15)

Symbolism is what you are reading--As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed to enter miss each day, miss each day of Gods love, it never ends, Likened to be an eternal suffering-They have traded 70-100 years of this existence and missed out on trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of life, never sick, not aging like now, never without, etc--a very bad trade. Likened to be an eternal suffering.
They will go into the lake of fire--So does death and Hades(grave) they cannot suffer, they can however be destroyed eternally as all things are in the lake of fire. Fire destroys eternally.

How do you know that the concept of being destroyed eternally is not symbolism, or that 'a loving God' is not symbolism as well? Where do you draw the line between symbolic fantasy and Scriptural reality?

 

[keiw1]

Do you have Scripture backing for that assertion? You seem to be spitting in Jesus face calling Him a liar...

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:11-15)



How do you know that the concept of being destroyed eternally is not symbolism, or that 'a loving God' is not symbolism as well? Where do you draw the line between symbolic fantasy and Scriptural reality?

Deuteronomy 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH.
Jesus teaches those walking the broad and spacious path will be destroyed.
The lake of fire = the second death--There is no life in death. All thought stops.

Those who earnestly seek the true living God, he reveals himself in ways to those. Creation is proof he exists.

 

[rjs330]

The new creation theme in the Bible does not seem to go with the notion of an eternal hell. Isaiah 55 and Romans 8 teach God's renewal of the world into perfection. It is said that in the future, Christ will be "all in all." It does not seem to make sense for God's new creation, then, to have an eternal torture chamber in it. In the new creation, God returns the world to its state before sin. How can Hell be part of that intent? How can Christ be all in all, with unbelievers tortured forever?

How much have you studied about the final judgement and the new heaven and earth?

 

[keiw1]

How much have you studied about the final judgement and the new heaven and earth?

I know quite a bit, do you have questions?

 

[rjs330]

Deuteronomy 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH.
Jesus teaches those walking the broad and spacious path will be destroyed.
The lake of fire = the second death--There is no life in death. All thought stops.

It's important to know that even Jesus taught eternal punishment. He taught a lot about what it will be like. In the description in Revelation there is something that is important that often get missed.
And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done.The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. - Revelation 20:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation20:12-13&version=CJB

Please note that people are judged by what was written in the books according to what they had done. It appears that not everyone is judged the same. Yes they are all cast into the Lake if Fire, but the judgment is based on their deeds. So God remains just. A serial killer will be judged by his deeds and the stay at home mom who tried to live a good life and died of cancer will not be judged the same. She rejected Christ so will still be cast into the Lake of Fire but her punishment won't be the same. Just as the believers rewards are not all the same. Yes we all will be in heaven, but our rewards there are also based on our deeds. I think it makes perfect sense.

And the eternity of it all is described in Revelation as well.

“Pay attention!” [says Yeshua,] “I am coming soon, and my rewards are with me to give to each person according to what he has done.I am the ‘A’ and the ‘Z,’ the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”How blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they have the right to eat from the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city!Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. - Revelation 22:12-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation22:12-15&version=CJB

The city is eternal and outside the city are those that are sinners. They would be eternal too as they remain outside. I think that is part of the punishment. To see where you could be as opposed to where you are. I think this fits with Jesus talking about the rich man in hell wanting Lazarus to bring him water. It appears he can see where Lazarus and Abraham are and can speak to them. Eternal separation will be its own kind of torment.

But God is loving enough not to force people to be with him if they didn't want to be there.

 

[rjs330]

I know quite a bit, do you have questions?

No I too have done a great deal of study I to the topic. I just wondered how much the poster had studied it.

 

[rjs330]

And if they didn't, I would never light them on fire and burn them forever. I'd never even begin to consider such a horrific possibility! Yet that is what God does.

God is just and would never do something to us that wasn't completely deserved. I think we humans don't get it because we are a bunch of sinners. We so easily excuse ourselves and forgive ourselves for our sinful ways. We don't really see sin and the rejection of Christ as awful as it really is. God would never punish those harsher than they deserve. Unlike us humans who can do that including punishing the innocent. But God doesn't do that. He knows exactly what we have done and thought and knows every motive. His justice and holiness demands righteous judgment. And it will be Righteous, holy and completely deserved. God is not capricious. He always acts in accordance to his righteousness and holiness. Each man will be judged individually according to his own works. And God knows every one of them.

 

[jasonc]

T.e.smith is banned

 

[keiw1]

It's important to know that even Jesus taught eternal punishment. He taught a lot about what it will be like. In the description in Revelation there is something that is important that often get missed.
And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done.The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. - Revelation 20:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation20:12-13&version=CJB

Please note that people are judged by what was written in the books according to what they had done. It appears that not everyone is judged the same. Yes they are all cast into the Lake if Fire, but the judgment is based on their deeds. So God remains just. A serial killer will be judged by his deeds and the stay at home mom who tried to live a good life and died of cancer will not be judged the same. She rejected Christ so will still be cast into the Lake of Fire but her punishment won't be the same. Just as the believers rewards are not all the same. Yes we all will be in heaven, but our rewards there are also based on our deeds. I think it makes perfect sense.

And the eternity of it all is described in Revelation as well.

“Pay attention!” [says Yeshua,] “I am coming soon, and my rewards are with me to give to each person according to what he has done.I am the ‘A’ and the ‘Z,’ the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”How blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they have the right to eat from the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city!Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. - Revelation 22:12-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation22:12-15&version=CJB

The city is eternal and outside the city are those that are sinners. They would be eternal too as they remain outside. I think that is part of the punishment. To see where you could be as opposed to where you are. I think this fits with Jesus talking about the rich man in hell wanting Lazarus to bring him water. It appears he can see where Lazarus and Abraham are and can speak to them. Eternal separation will be its own kind of torment.

But God is loving enough not to force people to be with him if they didn't want to be there.

Jesus taught symbolism. He was clear--Enter through the narrow gate, for cramped is the road leading off into life FEW are the ones finding it. For Broad and spacious the path that leads to DESTRUCTION, many have entered this way.

 

[for_his_glory]

No I too have done a great deal of study I to the topic. I just wondered how much the poster had studied it.

T.E is no longer a member. When you see a line across someone's screen name they are no longer here

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Two different sets of books, two separate judgement, one resurrection two places to be sent to for eternity. Eternity in the New Jerusalem, or eternity in the lake of fire. It's just as simple as that as everyone makes their own choices here on earth either accepting God or rejecting God and will be judged by their own choices as God makes righteous all His judgments.

Now is the time of God's salvation as once that door is closed when Jesus returns there are no second chances.

 

[crossnote]

Deuteronomy 30:19--God set before all-LIFE or DEATH.
Jesus teaches those walking the broad and spacious path will be destroyed.
The lake of fire = the second death--There is no life in death. All thought stops.

Those who earnestly seek the true living God, he reveals himself in ways to those. Creation is proof he exists.

Oh, God exists all right. He even went to great lengths to save us from eternal damnation.

Jude 7 (KJV) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:11 (KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It's kinda like forever, and instead of denying its reality, we need to come clean before the Lord and receive His forgiveness offered in the Gospel.

 

[keiw1]

Oh, God exists all right. He even went to great lengths to save us from eternal damnation.

Jude 7 (KJV) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:11 (KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It's kinda like forever, and instead of denying its reality, we need to come clean before the Lord and receive His forgiveness offered in the Gospel.

Symbolism about eternal suffering--The lake of fire= destruction. By God throwing Death and Hades into the lake of fire, proves its destruction. They cannot suffer, they can be destroyed forever. You really think a God of love would condemn nothing mortals to eternal suffering? Believe Deuteronomy 30:19--its reality.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know you asked keiw1 this question, but I would also like to answer this.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Hell is just another word for the grave.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell

Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit

Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell​

But do you believe hell ends?
I'm not sure.

 

[GodsGrace]

Symbolism about eternal suffering--The lake of fire= destruction. By God throwing Death and Hades into the lake of fire, proves its destruction. They cannot suffer, they can be destroyed forever. You really think a God of love would condemn nothing mortals to eternal suffering? Believe Deuteronomy 30:19--its reality.

Some reputable Christians believe that hell will end. I don't believe this is an heretical belief.

 

[GodsGrace]

0

The Hebrew word SHEOL = the Greek word HADES= the English word-Hell--Both Sheol and Hades translate-the grave. Yes Hades will be tossed into the lake of fire. There will be no more use of it once all is said and done at the conclusion of Rev 20. Death will be tossed in there as well, neither can suffer eternally but both can be destroyed eternally.

Interesting.
I just don't think about hell too much.
Can't read the whole thread...
Why would some NOT believe this is possible??
What support is given that hell is eternal?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you have Scripture backing for that assertion? You seem to be spitting in Jesus face calling Him a liar...

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:11-15)



How do you know that the concept of being destroyed eternally is not symbolism, or that 'a loving God' is not symbolism as well? Where do you draw the line between symbolic fantasy and Scriptural reality?

I don't believe Rev 20 supports eternal hell.
Doesn't the Lake of Fire cause everything to die?

Or do you think That is hell?

 

[keiw1]

But do you believe hell ends?
I'm not sure.

The Hebrew word-Sheol= The Greek word Hades= Hell--both words translate-the grave. Yes death and the grave will no longer be needed, thus cast into the lake of fire destroyed eternally.