I bet there are more, not on the list. People have reported Trump helped them, and told no one about it.
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Holding Them Accountable
- Thread starter Uncle J
- Start date
I bet there are more, not on the list. People have reported Trump helped them, and told no one about it.
Milk-Drops
Member
Yes, you are talking about trades. This predates capitalism and socialism doesn't have issues with this. Trades are based in labor, but capitalism is not based in labor theory, but instead based in capital, ownership. Trump makes his money through investing and managing those investments. His bussinesses are capital that are leveraged to obtain resources. His job is for the love of money and resources. You only become that level of a capitalist without it.
Milk-Drops
Member
Thats cool, its sad that we need to have billionairs do grants to accomplish this.I bet there are more, not on the list. People have reported Trump helped them, and told no one about it.
List of grants made by the Donald J. Trump Foundation - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Milk-Drops
Member
This is a vast misunderstanding of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism primarily centers around property rights that can be used as capital. This involves land, intellectual property, and the machinery/tools to create products. Socialism focuses on labor and heavily regulates production to meet the needs of the people.
China did not add capitalism to its system, but instead added market capabilities. The State still has massive control over companies, but the companies can function autonomously.
Socialists argue that capitalists steal the labor and alienate the working base from their labor, while Capitalism criticizes socialism for equalizing labor with intellectual creation.
The USSR and China adapted their markets, but the USSR was way too invested in the cold war that it collapsed.
The differences are complex and both systems have advantages and disadvantages.
The sad part is that he was cheating people so badly in his 'charitable foundation' that the government forced his organization to pay a fine and stop doing business. The other sad part is that this link says, "The Donald J. Trump Foundation was a New York-based charitable foundation founded by Donald Trump." Notice the word 'was' and find out why it uses that verb.
God bless,
Ted
Selling labor for a profit is capitalism at its essence, the work isn't done for free. Paul sold his tents for a profit, and Christ whatever He made working with wood and stone did likewise.
Clearly, the history of Thanksgiving hasn't been thoroughly discussed with you. The pilgrims came under a "socialist" system with everyone put into one place the fruits of their labor, and all took out as they needed. Also their debt for the expedition was paid from that depository. They began starving because why should anyone work when they can eat for free? So capitalism was adopted, people could sell what they themselves produced and the community thrived. There was so much plenty they had a feast to thank God, and invited the Indians to celebrate their success. Its called "Thanksgiving" today.
That lesson is why the colonies did not adopt any form of socialism, history proved it unworkable. The people divide the wealth until there is no more to divide, then all are in poverty. Capitalism creates wealth, and everyone becomes more prosperous.
Milk-Drops
Member
I'm pretty sure you skimmed what I posted. Socialism is not the idea that labor is free, the cost is fully based on labor. Capitalism derives worth through supply and demand. Labor is one form of capital, but labor in general is not capitalism. Markets and selling labor predated capitalism by a couple thousand years.
The Mayflower pact was not socialism. The mayflower pact was a colonizing expedition where most of the settlers died due to most of them being in experienced farmers,tradesmen, etc. The colony started to survive only when previously contacted natives intervened and taught proper farming methods to the settlers. Eventually the colony collapsed due to the small population and the survivors were absorbed into other colonies. The "thanksgiving" feast was since the Pilgrims were somewhat hostile the natives saw smoke from bonfires and came to make sure the pilgrims were not being invaded.
The Mayflower pact showed that if you don't have experienced farmers, trappers, and tradesmen when you go to a new enviroment, money won't automaticly save you and that survival is going to be rough.
You make those distinctions of labor for profit, or merchandising for profit, from a modern theory of capitalism. I do not and I think it rhetorical. Designed to condemn what actually has been practiced throughout human history, in a Maxist inspired diatribe against "dialectical materialism".
The Mayflower pact bankers were to be paid back by every Pilgrim, which resulted in everyone laboring to pay the bill, and all the profits of their labor going into the "general fund". It wasn't until they were allowed to keep a portion of their production, and sell it, that "plenty" was achieved. The same happened in Russia when they were permitted to keep a portion to sell for themselves.
The pilgrims were thankful to the Indians, without them they wouldn't know how to hunt and fish well. They were thankful, rejoicing in their prosperity, and so they thanked the Indians.
Our schools teach a leftist version of Thanksgiving leaving out the lessons of capitalism, because leftists control education. Hopefully, technology will put them all out of work so they can get real jobs and stop corrupting our youth with leftist socialism.
As an agnostic you shouldn't care about the experience of Christians. But we can see a repeat of it in the apostolic church. At first everyone deposted whatever the could at the feet of the apostles, and it was distributed to everyone:
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
(Acts 2:44-45 NKJ)
But human nature doesn't allow such a system be practice over the long haul:
NKJ Acts 6:1 Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists, because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. (Acts 6:1 NKJ)
3 Honor widows who are really widows.
4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.
5 Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.
7 And these things command, that they may be blameless.
8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
9 Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man,
10 well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints' feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work.
11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry,
12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not. (1 Tim. 5:3-13 NKJ)
The "socialism" of the early church vanished, as it should have, when it was seen Christ wasn't going to appear in a few months.
Socialism fails everywhere and every time its tried, even in the apostolic church.
jasonc
Member
There is a reason why I said something about working for USPS. I repeat .I was told why work hard? Ya only get more work ! There is no incentive to be efficient.you get promoted if you have connections .seen it at my old job .there were exceptions.even the military has that problem in peacetime and stateside .
Yes it happens In the market place but unless it's the less common utilities they will loose money and it closes .
Yes it happens In the market place but unless it's the less common utilities they will loose money and it closes .
Experienced the same on some union jobs; Old timers resented it "if you made them look bad"; And if you made a suggestion that improved "production", the "foreman" or whoever was there for a long time and never thought of it, really resented it. Actually becoming "your enemy" giving you the crap jobs or slandering you until you are fired. One time, blacks were told I was racist and they would have beaten me to death, but I had in my wallet a black kid in Kenya I was supporting financially....it saved my life.
jasonc
Member
In my examples it was unions .though I wasn't union nor was required to be .
I was on a "usns" replenishment ship in the Indian Ocean, the bos'n was a drunk. He thought I was trying to take his job, so he got partied with the mess crew, black cooks etc. complaining I was a racist. In the middle of the night, three of them drunk, cornered me in the mess hall, wanting to toss me off the ship. So I showed them a picture of a black kid I was supporting through Christian Children's fund, which immediately proved I was not a racist. I begged them to leave the drunk bos'n alone. They were so pissed off at being manipulated, they wanted to toss him over the side.
Uncle J
Member
This is where I wonder if you're a bot or a paid Trump campaign staffer. Trump doesn't exhibit love of money? Seriously? This guy?
His University? Shut down because it was a fraud.
His Charity? Shut down because it was a scam.
His Organization? Found to be engaged in decades of tax fraud.
He's had 5 kids by 3 women. He's appeared in soft-porn videos. He's bragged about barging in on teenage girls in dressing rooms. He's talked about his own teenage daughter in very sexual terms. He's bragged about grabbing women in the crotch while he was married. He's had an affair with a porn actress while his 3rd wife was home with their baby son.
On top of all that, he's said he's never done anything that he should ask God for forgiveness for.
And to you, that's a good Christian man with good morals?
Uncle J
Member
People like that are hard to take seriously, because they're so ridiculously over the top in their adoration of Trump, you always wonder if they're not really just trolling you.
Uncle J
Member
Prominent activist’s son convicted of storming Capitol and invading Senate floor in Jan. 6 riot
The son of a prominent conservative activist has been convicted of charges that he stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, bashed in a window, chased a police officer, invaded the Senate floor and helped a mob disrupt the certification of Democrat Joe Biden’s presidential election victory.Leo Brent Bozell IV, 44, of Palmyra, Pennsylvania, was found guilty Friday of 10 charges, including five felony offenses, after a trial decided by a federal judge, according to the Justice Department.
Bozell’s father is Brent Bozell III, who founded the Media Research Center, Parents Television Council and other conservative media organizations...
...Prosecutors said that before the riot, Bozell helped plan and coordinate events in Washington in support of Trump’s “Stop the Steal” movement. They said that after Trump’s rally near the White House on Jan. 6, Bozell marched to the Capitol and joined a mob in breaking through a police line. He smashed a window next to the Senate Wing Door, creating an entry point for hundreds of rioters, according to prosecutors.
After climbing through the smashed window, Bozell joined other rioters in chasing a Capitol Police officer, Eugene Goodman, up a staircase to an area where other officers confronted the group.
Uncle J
Member
Judge denies Mark Meadows’ request to move his Georgia election subversion case to federal court
ATLANTA (AP) — A judge on Friday denied Mark Meadows’ request to move his Georgia election subversion case to federal court, ruling that the Trump White House chief of staff must fight the charges in state court instead.
U.S. District Judge Steve Jones in Atlanta wrote in a 49-page ruling that Meadows “has not met even the ‘quite low’ threshold” to move his case to federal court, noting that the question was whether the actions at issue were related to his role as a federal official.
“The evidence adduced at the hearing establishes that the actions at the heart of the State’s charges against Meadows were taken on behalf of the Trump campaign with an ultimate goal of affecting state election activities and procedures,” Jones wrote. “Meadows himself testified that working for the Trump campaign would be outside the scope of a White House Chief of Staff.”
The ruling is a big early win for Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, who spent 2 1/2 years investigating and building the case against former President Donald Trump, Meadows and 17 others before obtaining the sweeping indictment under Georgia’s anti-racketeering law. She has said she wants to try all the defendants together.
So you, being without sin, will toss the first stone.This is where I wonder if you're a bot or a paid Trump campaign staffer. Trump doesn't exhibit love of money? Seriously? This guy?
His University? Shut down because it was a fraud.
His Charity? Shut down because it was a scam.
His Organization? Found to be engaged in decades of tax fraud.
He's had 5 kids by 3 women. He's appeared in soft-porn videos. He's bragged about barging in on teenage girls in dressing rooms. He's talked about his own teenage daughter in very sexual terms. He's bragged about grabbing women in the crotch while he was married. He's had an affair with a porn actress while his 3rd wife was home with their baby son.
On top of all that, he's said he's never done anything that he should ask God for forgiveness for.
And to you, that's a good Christian man with good morals?
Happy to meet such a righteous atheist, its a rare encounter indeed.
Yes, Trump has done things similar to everyone else, he is human. Like many, he exploited the situation.
But Christians are forgiving, and the Trump being persecuted now, is being punished for doing what her persecutors do all the time, without any repentance. He is being persecuted because he's not corrupt, and actually tried to make America "great again." He wasn't willing to sell us out to the globalists, and in the process he did lots of good or unborn babies and peace in the Middle East.
I miss being able to edit:
I wrote this:
But Christians are forgiving, and the Trump being persecuted now, is being punished for doing what her persecutors do all the time, without any repentance. He is being persecuted because he's not corrupt, and actually tried to make America "great again." He wasn't willing to sell us out to the globalists, and in the process he did lots of good or unborn babies and peace in the Middle East.
BUT I meant this:
But Christians are forgiving, and the Trump isn't being persecuted for doing those things, things his persecutors do all the time, without any repentance.
He is being persecuted because he's not corrupt like them, and tried to make America "great again."
Trump wasn't willing to sell us out to the globalists for $$$ and prestige, and in the process he did lots of good for unborn babies and peace in the Middle East.