Apostasy

[Davies]

Romans 3:19-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

These verses aren't directed specifically at those who have 'lost' their faith, but they describe people. One of the reasons Christians say that every man is evil is, not because they are judging others, but because the Bible says that every man, woman, and child is evil. I'm afraid it's hereditary.

Romans 3 spells it out without ambiguity.

Romans 3:9-12
New King James Version (NKJV)
All Have Sinned

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.â€[a]

Now, I don't have to examine others to know this is true. All I have to do is examine myself, and my conscience will agree with the Bible. Thank God's grace for that! That's not the Gospel though.

Romans 3:21-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Sorry for the long quote, but when Jesus died on the cross to satisfy the righteous requirements of the law for the sin of the world, then we should pause to think what kind of sins have we committed that it required God Himself to die in our place in order for forgiveness to be made possible. By God's grace, God will convict us of our sin, that's different than condemnation, and we, even those considered apostates, will come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ by His kindness.

- Davies

 

[Aardverk]

How does telling someone [an apostate or doubter] they are not evil and sinful, and not in need of forgiveness help them escape the coming judgment?

If you can keep an apostate or a doubter within the Christian fellowship, rather than alienating them and driving them away, they have a far better chance of learning and understanding more. I am probably twice your age Jethro but I am still learning just by being on this forum.

It [doctrine] means 'teaching'.

No Jethro, is does not, especially not as a verb which is how you are using it. I thought you had a basic misunderstanding there. I think it will help you to study various 'doctrines' a little more. You don't have to accept them, just try to understand them.

You do not share what the Bible teaches.

Really? We actually share far more than you think Jethro.


In this next part, I must assume you are addressing your comment to a waverer or doubter rather than the apostate who has already left.

If you [doubter] don't like what the Bible clearly says, you can choose another religion that aligns more carefully with what you already believe to be true about God and sin because what you believe has no part of Christianity whatsoever.

This is the BAD message again Jethro. You are telling the doubter - 'If you don't accept everything I say, just go away and find another religions'. BAD, BAD, BAD! Is that really what you think God wants Jethro to do?

I run a risk in saying this on a Christian Forum but I really do think you are in a small minority of Christians who think you should drive people away from Christianity and God. It is completely counter to the idea that we should be 'fishers of men' and help people to God. You pretend you want to help doubters and then you tell them to go away and adopt a different religion2

You're insisting that we change the Christian religion for you, and we're not going to do that.

No Jethro, I am suggesting a bit of love, empathy, tolerance and understanding (Christ like) of the doubter. I am suggesting that you recognize that there are many, many interpretations of scripture and that yours is not the only one. I am asking that you recognize your fallibility and have the humility to help someone rather than drive them away from God.

You obviously will not even think about my words so let me leave you with the words of Samuel Werenfels (Protestant theologian):

"Men open this book, their favourite creed in mind;
Each seeks his own, and each his own doth find."​

Perhaps you can ponder his words if you will not consider mine.

 

[Aardverk]

These verses aren't directed specifically at those who have 'lost' their faith, but they describe people. One of the reasons Christians say that every man is evil is, not because they are judging others, but because the Bible says that every man, woman, and child is evil. I'm afraid it's hereditary.

That seems perilously close to the Catholic notion of 'Original Sin' and I don't accept that either.

I'm not sure this is quite appropriate under an apostasy threat but let's risk being deleted

10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.â€

I note how you are interpreting this but it can most certainly be read in many ways.

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ......., to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, .....that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

I presume this is the bit you wanted me to read. It's a bit thin to base your whole lifestyle on, don't you think? If I understand you correctly, you can spend a lifetime of good works, like Mother Theresa and die doubting the very existence of God, like Mother Teresa, then you are damned. No, I can't accept that any more than I can accept the notion of Original Sin. I will go wherever Mother Teresa is thank you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you can keep an apostate or a doubter within the Christian fellowship, rather than alienating them and driving them away, they have a far better chance of learning and understanding more. I am probably twice your age Jethro but I am still learning just by being on this forum.

No Jethro, is does not, especially not as a verb which is how you are using it. I thought you had a basic misunderstanding there. I think it will help you to study various 'doctrines' a little more. You don't have to accept them, just try to understand them.

Really? We actually share far more than you think Jethro.


In this next part, I must assume you are addressing your comment to a waverer or doubter rather than the apostate who has already left.
This is the BAD message again Jethro. You are telling the doubter - 'If you don't accept everything I say, just go away and find another religions'. BAD, BAD, BAD! Is that really what you think God wants Jethro to do?

I run a risk in saying this on a Christian Forum but I really do think you are in a small minority of Christians who think you should drive people away from Christianity and God. It is completely counter to the idea that we should be 'fishers of men' and help people to God. You pretend you want to help doubters and then you tell them to go away and adopt a different religion2

No Jethro, I am suggesting a bit of love, empathy, tolerance and understanding (Christ like) of the doubter. I am suggesting that you recognize that there are many, many interpretations of scripture and that yours is not the only one. I am asking that you recognize your fallibility and have the humility to help someone rather than drive them away from God.

You obviously will not even think about my words so let me leave you with the words of Samuel Werenfels (Protestant theologian):

"Men open this book, their favourite creed in mind;
Each seeks his own, and each his own doth find."​

Perhaps you can ponder his words if you will not consider mine.

You're still not answering my question about how a person who does not want to believe that he is sinful by nature and in need of forgiveness will somehow change his mind about that by telling him he's not sinful by nature. I don't know how that's possible. unno

Help us understand your suggestion that it's good to tell people they are not sinful by nature and in need of forgiveness. How does that lead them to how the Bible says to be saved?

 

[Aardverk]

You're still not answering my question about how a person who does not want to believe that he is sinful by nature and in need of forgiveness will somehow change his mind about that by telling him he's not sinful by nature. I don't know how that's possible. unno

Perhaps I am not answering that question because it is not something I have ever said Jethro. You are getting confused by your own statements.

I have always advocated you telling the Apostate what you think but not condemning him. By all means point him at the sections of the Bible that you wish to point him at - that may even be a good thing. I have also advocated an open mind and humility. I have advocated an acceptance by everybody, me included, that they do not know god's mind and that is why we are instructed not to judge others. I have also pointed out to you what happens to you if you do.

Help us understand your suggestion that it's good to tell people they are not sinful by nature and in need of forgiveness.

If you would like to point out where I said that, I would be happy to help you.

 

[Comprehender]

I have always advocated you telling the Apostate what you think but not condemning him. By all means point him at the sections of the Bible that you wish to point him at - that may even be a good thing. I have also advocated an open mind and humility. I have advocated an acceptance by everybody, me included, that they do not know god's mind and that is why we are instructed not to judge others. I have also pointed out to you what happens to you if you do.

I appreciate your perspective & the respectful way you're responding.
It's tough to not get offended when someone calls you "apostate" as I've been called since questioning the Mormon/LDS church I've been raised in. My own mother has chosen the church over me. My husband has threatened divorce because of my becoming an "apostate." I still go to church every Sunday with him & our children, but I no longer go to the temple because I am no longer considered worthy since I no longer pay 10% of our income to the church.

Looking back at how much money, time, shame & stress I put into the LDS/Mormon church, I wonder, "What was I thinking?" To those outside a cult, it's difficult to understand how one could basically give up everything to the church, but when you're raised in it from a baby, it's just automatic.

In questioning Mormonism, I've also questioned Orthodox Christianity. I've wondered what exactly is Jesus saving us from? The Jews crucified him because he didn't save them as they wanted to be saved & I wondered if some of Christian doctrine teaches similar misguidance. I wondered if God is love, how could he command genocides in the OT & how could he require human sacrifice to be appeased? It just didn't make sense.

Now, I realize a deeper meaning of Christ's teachings.
Christ is not Jesus' last name - it's what he became ("annointed one") & what he encouraged us to follow his example in becoming.
"Putting on the mind of Christ" is a higher awareness - which inspires better feelings & behavior - healing of ourselves & others.
I've learned a lot! But there's still a lot more to learn!
Truth is in perspective - the more perspective the more truthful.
Each person has something unique & valuable to offer.
Jesus taught in parables, so each could learn at our own unique stage of our distinct spiritual journeys.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Putting on the mind of Christ" is a higher awareness - which inspires better feelings & behavior - healing of ourselves & others.

This is only true for the born again believer who has confessed his unrighteousness to God and received God's love, his forgiveness, and is transformed into a new creation. There is no exaltation into the Christ-like nature of the new creation without first having the old nature of sin and unrighteousness crucified with Christ on the cross.

Those who claim to live with Christ must also die with Christ. Some people do not think it necessary to die with Christ in order to live with Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you read carefully, you will see that the only thing I have ever criticized is peoples, prejudice, bigotry, hatred and negative behavior towards their fellow man. I have generally stopped short of saying to anyone that they are behaving in an evil or obnoxious way but I dare say people sometimes read between the lines.

I would also like to point out, for similar reasons I never post in apologetics. I only ever post in general talk, politics and current events. This thread happens to be in General Talk and I have done my best to tell you what a drastically negative effect you are having on people with wavering faith. If you want to ignore that and carry on calling people evil, that is, sadly, up to you. I just hope you can live comfortably with your conscience for the rest of your life. I simply do not believe that God wants Jethro to alienate people and drive them away.

How is it a good thing to withhold from people the necessity of acknowledging the sin nature in order to receive God's forgiveness so they can be saved? How does doing that help them to in turn acknowledge the sin nature so they can confess it and be saved?

Maybe you don't get it because you erroneously think salvation is by merit of one's own righteousness in the doing of good things, instead of being saved by receiving the free gift of righteousness from God through the forgiveness of sins without consideration of any good things we have done to earn it. Have you ever heard about that way of being saved before? That is what the Bible teaches. That is the Christian gospel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I wondered if God is love, how could he command genocides in the OT & how could he require human sacrifice to be appeased? It just didn't make sense.

Have I not been saying all along that apostates started questioning sin and/ or the character of God somewhere along the line which led them to become apostate? I've never met an atheist, or a determined unbeliever, or an apostate who was not in some way questioning the Bible's definition of sin and/ or the love of God, and his fairness and justice in judging sin. Aard, is it a coincidence that Comprehender also shares this common belief of apostates? I contend that that is the fundamental belief of the apostate. They are still in the great debate with the Bible about sin and the justice of God in judging it. That is why they can not believe and be saved.

 

[Aardverk]

I appreciate your perspective & the respectful way you're responding.
It's tough to not get offended when someone calls you "apostate" as I've been called since questioning the Mormon/LDS church I've been raised in. ......

In questioning Mormonism, I've also questioned Orthodox Christianity.....

You have my sympathy Comprehender, I know just what you are going through. There are countless people struggling in the way you describe and they need help. Instead of help, they often get rejected and condemned by their former friends and by people who don't even know them! Is that Christianity? I don't think so, I think that is just unpleasant individuals who have not yet learned the message of love and peace that Jesus taught so clearly.

Maybe we can not live up to His standards but surely we should try to follow the example of love, peace, tolerance and understanding that Jesus gave. No matter what any individual's beliefs are on the rest of the Bible, that can not be a bad way to live your life.

 

[Aardverk]

Sure. How 'bout here:

Originally Posted by Aardverk
If you read carefully, you will see that the only thing I have ever criticized is people's, prejudice, bigotry, hatred and negative behavior towards their fellow man. I have generally stopped short of saying to anyone that they are behaving in an evil or obnoxious way but I dare say people sometimes read between the lines.

I would also like to point out, for similar reasons I never post in apologetics. I only ever post in general talk, politics and current events. This thread happens to be in General Talk and I have done my best to tell you what a drastically negative effect you are having on people with wavering faith. If you want to ignore that and carry on calling people evil, that is, sadly, up to you. I just hope you can live comfortably with your conscience for the rest of your life. I simply do not believe that God wants Jethro to alienate people and drive them away.

Thank you for re-posting my earlier comment but you seem to be getting rather confused. On re-reading my post, I must say that I find it clear, respectful, balanced, caring, polite, honest and even a little humorous for those with eyes to see. What I don't see in those words is me saying anything remotely like you think I said.

In case you need a reminder, you asked the following and I told you I would answer your question if you pointed out where I said that.

Help us understand your suggestion that it's good to tell people they are not sinful by nature and in need of forgiveness.

If you would like to point out where I said that, I would be happy to help you.

I am still waiting here to help you Jethro.

Aard, is it a coincidence that Comprehender also shares this common belief of apostates? I contend that that is the fundamental belief of the apostate.

Firstly Jethro, you have put words in her mouth and then judged her by your words, not hers. A common mistake that you need to be more careful to avoid. It causes much misunderstanding.

Secondly Jethro, if you want to ask questions about 'Comprehender', you must ask her, not me.

I do hope that you read her post with sympathy and that it was educational for you. She explained her dilemma and heart ache very clearly. Have you learned anything from it or are you now going to tell her she is an evil sinner too? Have you recognized yet that some people leave their churches for very good reasons? They may be wrong reasons but it is the reasoning of that individual. Who are you to judge? The important thing is that ALL people are welcomed and not rejected or shunned. Would it help if I gave you some examples of Jesus welcoming sinners?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You have my sympathy Comprehender, I know just what you are going through. There are countless people struggling in the way you describe and they need help. Instead of help, they often get rejected and condemned by their former friends and by people who don't even know them! Is that Christianity? I don't think so, I think that is just unpleasant individuals who have not yet learned the message of love and peace that Jesus taught so clearly.

You're simply not getting it. Jesus did not teach a message of tolerance and love and peace that took away the truth of sin guilt for the sake of doubters and unbelievers who are offended by that truth, let alone a "clear" message of that. Show me in the Bible where Jesus did this, okay? Don't tell me that's what he would have done. Show me where he did that. I showed you very clearly where he did the opposite, and that the message of love and peace he had was the love of God given us in the removal of sin guilt...when we acknowledge and confess that guilt to God and take responsibility for it.

Maybe we can not live up to His standards but surely we should try to follow the example of love, peace, tolerance and understanding that Jesus gave.

Show me this example of Jesus calling people good by nature, not evil, for the sake of peace, love, and tolerance, okay?


You're making a very big error in discernment if you think believers hate unbelievers because we tell them that the Bible says all men are bad by nature and need a new heart. The very un-nice thing to do would be to lie to an unbeliever or apostate that all will be okay with them on the Day of Judgment despite the guilt of their sins and the responsibility they bear for it that we would not tell them about so they could be free of it and saved on that day. It's impossible to argue with that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thank you for re-posting my earlier comment but you seem to be getting rather confused. On re-reading my post, I must say that I find it clear, respectful, balanced, caring, polite, honest and even a little humorous for those with eyes to see. What I don't see in those words is me saying anything remotely like you think I said.

In case you need a reminder, you asked the following and I told you I would answer your question if you pointed out where I said that.
I am still waiting here to help you Jethro.

If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge what you've been saying to me in black and white it will be impossible for me to trust you to have a fair and rational discussion with you. I've done this enough times to know that it is impossible to have fair and rational discussion with unbelievers who are not humbly seeking genuine answers.

Firstly Jethro, you have put words in her mouth and then judged her by your words, not hers. A common mistake that you need to be more careful to avoid. It causes much misunderstanding.

It's amazing how you can look at plain black and white words here in this forum and in the Bible and insist they are not there.

Secondly Jethro, if you want to ask questions about 'Comprehender', you must ask her, not me.

No. The question was for you. She shared what I have already been saying to you about what apostates struggle with God about. I want to know from you if you think that is just coincidence. You are the one I've been talking to about this.

I do hope that you read her post with sympathy and that it was educational for you.

It was informative. It was yet another testimony to support my thesis.

She explained her dilemma and heart ache very clearly. Have you learned anything from it or are you now going to tell her she is an evil sinner too?

I will tell her the same thing I told you. A person has to unconditionally accept God's indictment against mankind, and his justice and fairness in passing judgment on mankind before they can be at peace with him. As long as a person is engaged in the great debate with God about his love and justice they will never be able to believe and trust in him and be at peace with him. The only way to be at peace with him in that case is for him to change what he has so plainly revealed to us in the Bible. My experience has been that many people are good at convincing themselves that he has in fact done that for them.

Have you recognized yet that some people leave their churches for very good reasons? They may be wrong reasons but it is the reasoning of that individual. Who are you to judge?

How is it judging to tell a person what the Bible says about how God will Judge a person on the Day of Judgment? I know you will continue to not answer any of my questions. They are designed to make you realize how unreasonable your accusations are.

The important thing is that ALL people are welcomed and not rejected or shunned. Would it help if I gave you some examples of Jesus welcoming sinners?

What you need to do is give me examples of Jesus welcoming people into the kingdom apart from an acknowledgement of sin guilt and a turning away from sin as he has defined it, okay? Apostates seem convinced that he will do that for them.

 

[Aardverk]

Jesus did not teach a message of tolerance and love and peace .......... let alone a "clear" message of that. Show me in the Bible where Jesus did this, okay?

"I give you a new commandment: love one another; just as I have loved you, you also must love one another." John. 13.34 This is a clear instruction to follow His example. You choose to ignore it.

You also ignore: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23

The meaning of that is also crystal clear but my guess is that you do not even see it.

You're making a very big error in discernment if you think believers hate unbelievers because ........

O.K. why do you hate them then

The very un-nice thing to do would be to lie to an unbeliever...

Your memory is failing again Jethro, I have never suggested that you lie to anyone. You persist in trying to put words in my mouth. You will fail in that Jethro until after I have left the forum. You may get away with it then..

It's impossible to argue with that.

No, you are wrong there Jethro, it is eaaasy to argue against Sorry, I couldn't resist that one;)


You have your own views on what motivates an apostate - but you may be wrong.
You have your own views on what best to say to an apostate - but you may be wrong.
You have your own view on what God wants from you - but you may be wrong.

I may also be wrong but at least I have some expertise in this particular subject. Experience which you have chosen to completely ignore along with other poster's experience. I get the distinct impression that you have gone in the opposite direction to an apostate, which may explain your extreme views.

Can I suggest that you discuss your views with someone outside your small group and listen to them rather than tell them you are right. Then ponder long and hard. You do seem to be particularly blinkered on this subject and obviously I have not made you stop and think at all, you keep playing the same old tune without even changing tempo or key.

 

[Aardverk]

If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge what you've been saying to me in black and white it will be impossible for me to trust you to have a fair and rational discussion with you.

Jethro, IF I have said something in 'black and white' you can easily quote it. You know perfectly well how to quote from earlier posts. If you can't quote it you are clearly mistaken OR deliberately trying to misrepresent me (See the TOS).

It's amazing how you can look at plain black and white words here in this forum and in the Bible and insist they are not there.

Similarly, I have never 'insisted that any words are not there'. I have of course disagreed with some of your interpretations - that is all Jethro.

It was informative. It was yet another testimony to support my thesis.

'Informative'! She poured out her heart and all you say is 'informative' 2 Try to show a bit of compassion.

I will tell her the same thing I told you.

Yes, I bet you will 2

How is it judging to tell a person what the Bible says about how God will Judge a person on the Day of Judgment?

I see nothing wrong with telling people what the Bible says - just don't lose sight of the fact that there are many relevant passages and many interpretations. "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23

I know you will continue to not answer any of my questions. They are designed to make you realize how unreasonable your accusations are.

What 'accusations' are they Jethro? Black and white quotes please.

 

[Comprehender]

Have I not been saying all along that apostates started questioning sin and/ or the character of God somewhere along the line which led them to become apostate? I've never met an atheist, or a determined unbeliever, or an apostate who was not in some way questioning the Bible's definition of sin and/ or the love of God, and his fairness and justice in judging sin. Aard, is it a coincidence that Comprehender also shares this common belief of apostates? I contend that that is the fundamental belief of the apostate. They are still in the great debate with the Bible about sin and the justice of God in judging it. That is why they can not believe and be saved.

Jethro,
I'm not in the mood to argue about this.
Just know that I know where you're coming from because I was there not too long ago.
We are all "apostate" in a sense & all fall short of the mark & need to be "forgiven because we know not what we do."

 

[Comprehender]

You have my sympathy Comprehender, I know just what you are going through. There are countless people struggling in the way you describe and they need help. Instead of help, they often get rejected and condemned by their former friends and by people who don't even know them! Is that Christianity? I don't think so, I think that is just unpleasant individuals who have not yet learned the message of love and peace that Jesus taught so clearly.

Maybe we can not live up to His standards but surely we should try to follow the example of love, peace, tolerance and understanding that Jesus gave. No matter what any individual's beliefs are on the rest of the Bible, that can not be a bad way to live your life.

I hope and pray to come in contact with more people like you, Aardverk!

I realize that we need to learn from & love one another, no matter who it is, but it's refreshing to come across someone loving & open.

 

[Elijah674]

I hope and pray to come in contact with more people like you, Aardverk!

I realize that we need to learn from & love one another, no matter who it is, but it's refreshing to come across someone loving & open.

One can find where the hate should be directed at. And to hate sin is to be the ISSUE, [NEVER THE PERSON!]
And the posts back & forth seem 'much' more to me than that of hating sin or Apostasy. But just perhaps as VAIN?? It seems that taking sides is the ISSUE, and are trying to be won for popularity vote?

And for the posters that are reading this material (not personalities) to understand APOSTASY, ask yourself who were seen such in these verses of...

Numbers 16
[1] Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

Seems to be quite a majority vote there! Yet, one might wonder how none of these in this large famous group came to the point of not undersing what True Agape Love is??

Even after God executed these ones, the people who were left have a message for us today??? ibid 41...
[41] But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD.

And you can read on for further justice from God.

--Elijah

 

[Former Christian]

In the bible, an apostate would describe one who has left following God, left following Jesus Christ. Today, it just means someone who disagrees with the doctrines of a particular denomination.

To Evangelical Protestants, Roman Catholicism and Jehovah’s Witnesses are apostates. To Roman Catholics, all other denominations are the apostates, and need to come back to truly following Christ through the true Church. The Jehovah’s Witnesses see “Christendom†in a similar light.

According to the definition using 1 Timothy 4:1, all deemed apostate are also deemed Satanic. Which would make all of Christianity Satanic, depending who you talked to.

NC

 

[Aardverk]

In the bible, an apostate would describe one who has left following God, left following Jesus Christ. Today, it just means someone who disagrees with the doctrines of a particular denomination.

To Evangelical Protestants, Roman Catholicism and Jehovah’s Witnesses are apostates. To Roman Catholics, all other denominations are the apostates, and need to come back to truly following Christ through the true Church. The Jehovah’s Witnesses see “Christendom†in a similar light.

According to the definition using 1 Timothy 4:1, all deemed apostate are also deemed Satanic. Which would make all of Christianity Satanic, depending who you talked to.

Spot on

As a matter of interest FC, as an ex-Christian yourself, would it have helped you stay a Christian longer if people told you that you were an evil sinner when you had doubts or would it have helped you stay with Christianity if people were loving, welcoming, helpful, tolerant and open minded about the many interpretations of Christianity?